A pox on DD teams

[Stauffenberg44]

Whenever I see a DD team in the pre-battle list I groan. More likely than not, here we go again:

 

--the team has come up with a clever plan to hug the map edge and try to sneak around to ambush the enemy CV. The battle is lost even assuming they get the CV (usually don't).

--the team deigns to scout or screen the main fleet but go where they are not needed, as in a cap already covered by other DDs.

--the team will charge in and both get sunk in less than 2 mins.

--(add your own)

 

(Not to be overly captious, I've seen some brilliant DD team play as well, though not often)

 

 

[anonym_LreZfNvihoej]

How is that different from ordinary yolo dd's? At least those 3 acting as a group have better chance in case of encounter with red DD. Point you missed (and that is a big one for making divisions) is that division spawned in one place close to each other which affect general disposition of fleet, so if we have only 3 dd in team, - all of them will cover just one flank. That would be bad.

[Stauffenberg44]

How is that different from ordinary yolo dd's? At least those 3 acting as a group have better chance in case of encounter with red DD. Point you missed (and that is a big one for making divisions) is that division spawned in one place close to each other which affect general disposition of fleet, so if we have only 3 dd in team, - all of them will cover just one flank. That would be bad.

 

True that.

[bullittmcqueen]

A division of DDs can be a sure win if they play properly. If they dont chase CV's stupidly or go AWOL, 2 or 3 DDs can wreck.

[Gregarious_Maximus]

DD's that work together can be exceptionally dangerous to the enemy.  

But even a good plan can be flushed when they get spotted by Sky Cancer and the whole enemy team fires at them.

[Crucis]

IMO, a lot depends on how many DD's you have in addition to the DD division.  The problem with DD divisions can be that they all tend to run as a pack, meaning that they can only be in roughly one place at one time.  But if you're counting on DD's to be scouting across the map, or being available to cap multiple bases, in domination mode, having a DD division without any additional DD's on the team can be limiting.

[Nachoo31]

You see me in a DD team you can bet your butt I won't be going along the outside of the map.

[chewonit]

If opportunity presents itself, I will sneak past the line. Not to chase the CV, but to find and torp camping BB's. Love pumping half a dozen of Type 93's or F3's into the side of bow-on reversing Yamato and friends.

[Crucis]

If opportunity presents itself, I will sneak past the line. Not to chase the CV, but to find and torp camping BB's. Love pumping half a dozen of Type 93's or F3's into the side of bow-on reversing Yamato and friends.

 

chewonit, my experience has been that trying to sink high tier CV's with torps if usually a waste of time.  Those high tier CV's are very fast, and their Sit Awareness will go off in plenty of time to allow them to get up to full speed and run away or take whatever evasive action they need to take.  My experience has been that the best way to take a high tier CV down with a DD is with guns (probably while you're dodging their planes).

 

OTOH, very low tier CV's are slow as dirt and vulnerable to IJN DD's and their torpedoes.

 

 

So, I do agree with you.  High tier torp using DD's are usually going to get better value for their time shooting at BBs than chasing after CV's.

[chewonit]

I don't chase CV in any tier. I will try to kill them if somehow I happen to run into them. But other than late in the match, chasing CV is a waste of resource in any ship.

 

And speed of high tier CV's is not the only factor. High tier DB's and TB's are lethal. Never want to try my luck with them, especially from a cornered CV.

[bullittmcqueen]

I don't chase CV in any tier. I will try to kill them if somehow I happen to run into them. But other than late in the match, chasing CV is a waste of resource in any ship.

 

And speed of high tier CV's is not the only factor. High tier DB's and TB's are lethal. Never want to try my luck with them, especially from a cornered CV.

 

True words. A DD should never take itself out of the fight just to chase down a CV that it may not be able to kill.

[Umikami]

Whenever I see a DD team in the pre-battle list I groan. More likely than not, here we go again:

 

--the team has come up with a clever plan to hug the map edge and try to sneak around to ambush the enemy CV. The battle is lost even assuming they get the CV (usually don't).

--the team deigns to scout or screen the main fleet but go where they are not needed, as in a cap already covered by other DDs.

--the team will charge in and both get sunk in less than 2 mins.

--(add your own)

 

(Not to be overly captious, I've seen some brilliant DD team play as well, though not often)

 

 

 

Lets see if I can answer these points fir you, from the perspective of the DD driver.

 

Point 1 : Whenever I see a DD team in the pre-battle list I groan. More likely than not, here we go again:

(imagine how the poor DD drivers feel when they see you ... )

Point 2 : the team has come up with a clever plan to hug the map edge and try to sneak around to ambush the enemy CV.

(would you rather they came up with a stupid plan and charged straight up the middle and died?)

Point 3 : The battle is lost even assuming they get the CV (usually don't).

(could that possibly be from a lack of support from the rest of the team?)

Point 4 : the team deigns to scout or screen the main fleet but go where they are not needed, as in a cap already covered by other DDs.

(the DD didn't follow my orders and insisted on playing his own game, even to the point of looking for support from other DD's)

Point 5 : the team will charge in and both get sunk in less than 2 mins.

( I refuse to support any ship that won't do what I say and help ME win, so I'll stay WAY BACK HERE AND SNIPE)

 

 

I'd like to suggest an alternative for you;

Go where your DD's scout, not where you WANT them to scout.

Follow their lead, they are much more fragile than you and won't lead you into harm's way.

Close support is better than sniping support, embrace it.

Help them eliminate targets they fear (CV's, other gunboat DD's, certain cruisers) so they are free to scout the targets you want to engage.

 

 

In other words, learn to work WITH your scouts, a very valuable and helpful resource, instead of ignoring and complaining about them.

[Crucis]

I don't chase CV in any tier. I will try to kill them if somehow I happen to run into them. But other than late in the match, chasing CV is a waste of resource in any ship.

 

And speed of high tier CV's is not the only factor. High tier DB's and TB's are lethal. Never want to try my luck with them, especially from a cornered CV.

 

 

I have no problem chasing low tier CV's (tier 4-5) with DD's, because they're so slow and my DD's is so much faster.  Also, the maps are much smaller (unless perhaps I'm in a tier 5 DD in a tier 7 battle), so the time spent getting to them is much less.  And at those tiers, IMO, it's really not a waste of time or resources.  Oh, yes, in some circumstances it is.  But that's all about situational awareness.  Sometimes, the situation is right for running down a CV with a DD (at low tiers) and others, it's not.  It can be particularly rewarding if it's a battle on a smallish map and there are 2 slow CV's, because they're often fairly close to each other and you can punch them out in short order.

 

 

[Crucis]

I don't chase CV in any tier. I will try to kill them if somehow I happen to run into them. But other than late in the match, chasing CV is a waste of resource in any ship.

 

And speed of high tier CV's is not the only factor. High tier DB's and TB's are lethal. Never want to try my luck with them, especially from a cornered CV.

 

True words. A DD should never take itself out of the fight just to chase down a CV that it may not be able to kill.

 

 

Meh, never say never. 

 

I've had plenty of times in low tier battles when I've snuck through or around the enemy's lines and got a clear shot at the enemy CV or CVs, and it was a game winning thing.  It's all about having a good understanding of how the battle's flowing, good situational awareness. 

 

At the same time, I think that it's a bad, bad, bad idea to have LOT of ships chasing after the enemy CV, when there are other ships still left on the map that could cause you trouble (like grabbing dom caps, etc.).  Again, situational awareness.

 

 

[bewbs_]

 

True words. A DD should never take itself out of the fight just to chase down a CV that it may not be able to kill.

 

I would say almost every ship even... nothing worse that having a team that's off chasing a single ship while only having 1 cap point...so many losses have come from that, especially ones where we end up having a ship count advantage yet lose due to points......

 

But anytime a DD division goes off on a CV "hunt" or tries to just sneak around the flank (ignoring the enemy and caps) you know its going to be a rough game.

 

A DD division that ignores team chat is also awful.

[Stauffenberg44]

 

 

Meh, never say never. 

 

I've had plenty of times in low tier battles when I've snuck through or around the enemy's lines and got a clear shot at the enemy CV or CVs, and it was a game winning thing.  It's all about having a good understanding of how the battle's flowing, good situational awareness. 

 

At the same time, I think that it's a bad, bad, bad idea to have LOT of ships chasing after the enemy CV, when there are other ships still left on the map that could cause you trouble (like grabbing dom caps, etc.).  Again, situational awareness.

 

 

 

True. Opportunistically going after a CV can be a battle winner.

[Harv72b]

Have you tried actually communicating with the destroyer division in game chat?  There's no guarantee that they'll listen or that they're even paying attention to the chat, but it doesn't hurt to ask (particularly when the game is just starting).

 

As others have pointed out, two good destroyers working together can have a huge impact on the game, arguably more so than any other combination of ship types.  That said, you have to keep in mind that most divisions you run into, regardless of the types of ships they're captaining, consist of one or more mediocre (to be kind) players who are just in it to have fun.  Maybe not as much in high tier matches, but definitely more so in the lower ones.

[Seamus_44]

It really depends on how well they work together and how well the rest of the team works:

1) Realize that they have to captain their ships, just like you and deal with the battle as it unfolds.

2) DDs can cap, but without support--effective support--will die if opposed

3) They are often extremely valuable at the end of the game, but only if they are alive.

4) It drives us nuts when the rest of the team:

a) thinks we are there just to push forward

b) ignores hold caps as well as capping

c) leaves us unsupported to defend the base in Standard Battle.

 

 

[Harv72b]

4) It drives us nuts when the rest of the team:

a) thinks we are there just to push forward

b) ignores hold caps as well as capping

c) leaves us unsupported to defend the base in Standard Battle.

 

 

 

d) Plows directly in front of us while we're lining up torpedo salvos.

 

Since we're venting...

[HazeGrayUnderway]

I've had the opportunity to play in a 3 Blyz division twice.  It was blissful 

 

[Stauffenberg44]

I've had the opportunity to play in a 3 Blyz division twice.  It was blissful 

 

Oh I would be interested in trying that.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

 

Oh I would be interested in trying that.

 

The funny part was the opposing team comments in match chat at the beginning.

 

"3 Blyz division.  REALLY."

 

It gets hilarious when such a division is screening, harassing with gunfire and torps, and alternating smoke discharges for the team to cover the Cruisers and Battleships, while at least 1 DD stays out to spot.

[a_hippie]

A pox on DD "snipers". I'm not great at this game, but it seems to me that DDs are the scouts of the fleet. Why dont they scout? Too many hang in spawn to snipe or whatever. Let the BBs scout for them? LOL. Seriously?

[Stauffenberg44]

Agreed. I was in the Scharnhorst and had a MInekazi behind me for the first 5 mins. I asked him if I was scouting for him satisfactorily?

[chewonit]

A pox on DD "snipers". I'm not great at this game, but it seems to me that DDs are the scouts of the fleet. Why dont they scout? Too many hang in spawn to snipe or whatever. Let the BBs scout for them? LOL. Seriously?

 

How do DD's, the type with shortest gun ranges and vision, snipe from spawn?