The dismal drawn-out decline of CVs

[Unryuu_Kai]

Hi,

 

Unfortunately it comes to a time where I need to write about the problems concerning CVs.

First off, some significant changes to CVs and for the purpose of simplicity, I will start from the game’s launch.

 

0.5.1

Aircraft torpedoes' chance of causing a flooding has been reduced by approximately half

Aircraft speed has been slightly increased for air squadron assault mode, and damage caused by aircraft in this mode has been increased as well

The logic for fighters behavior has been improved. Now, when fighters attack other fighters, the squadron being attacked will automatically counterattack and will not abandon the dogfight until it runs out of ammunition.

 

0.5.2                               

Increased XP ratios for the following ships:

32% for Hakuryu

Decreased Credit ratios for the following ships:

10% for Lexington

16% for Taiho

 

0.5.3

Midway and Essex: One squadron of torpedo bombers was replaced with one squadron of bombers for the assault setups

Lexington: One squadron of fighters was removed from the default setup.

Lexington, Essex, Midway: Bomber damage increased by 30% (1000lb ANM65 bomb type is now installed on the Curtiss SB2C, Douglas BTD-1 and Kaiser XBTK-1 bombers)

Reworked AA defence and aircraft.

Revised Tech Trees for aircraft.

Reworked the AA armament efficiency (efficiency of AA guns at long-range distance was significantly improved, other AA guns were revised as well).

Increase in efficiency when setting a priority target was reduced by 12% (now, the intensification factor is x1.1).

Intensification factor of the Defensive Fire consumable was reduced by 50% (now, the AA armament intensification is x3 when the Defensive Fire consumable is activated). Now, both dual-purpose guns and large-calibre automatic AA guns deliver fire when the Defensive Fire consumable is activated.

 

0.5.4

Increased the hit points of a number of secondary guns and changed the calculation for how they're damaged by HE shells and shrapnel. The guns are now roughly twice as durable

Increased the efficiency of the AA defense manual targeting from 10% to 30%

 

0.5.5

Added the Defensive AA Fire consumable to aircraft carriers tiers VIII-X

 

0.5.6

Additional AA defenses can now be mounted on the main turrets, because the technology required for this has become available in the game.

Colorado - AA defenses were slightly improved for the top hull. (from 152 to 161 points)

North Carolina -AA defenses were significantly reinforced. (from 185 to 238 points)

Iowa - AA defenses were significantly reinforced. (203 -> 286 points)

Montana -AA guns were reinforced. (from 302 to 318 points)

 

Nagato -AA defenses were significantly reinforced for the top hull.

As a result, her average AA damage within the 3.1km AA engagement area radius increased by 95 points (from 93 to 188 points)

Amagi - AA defenses were reinforced for the top hull.(from 189 to 215 points)

 

0.5.9

Only one aircraft carrier will be available per team, for battles where the maximum tier ship is one of the following: tier VIII, IX or X.

Tier I-IV ships and tier V aircraft carriers: will see battles with opponents only one tier higher

 

0.5.11

Increased American fighter ammo by 33%.

 

I’ve probably missed a few but I believe these are the significant changes. There are buffs in these notes, but a majority are nerfs. I will leave you to figure out which are which. I believe it is good for people to see the general changes to CVs which have greatly affected them since the launch of World of Warships.

Now onto my points and how these patches affected gameplay.

USN vs IJN

I won’t go too much into detail but as you can see there is a clear discrepancy between the stats of USN and IJN. Why is this you ask? Because IJN are simply more versatile. They have more squads allowing better vision, balanced load outs to perform any role and are mostly reliant on skill.

 

Taking away 1 TB from the strike load outs of Essex and Midway was both a bad and good decision. 2x6 TB squad was evidently overpowered, being able to delete any boat with one strike. However, 1 TB squad pales in comparison and is weak against more agile targets. Replacing them with hard hitting RNG DBs does not fix the problem. They are good against BBs but that’s about it. Sure it can do serious damage but when you hit a DD with a chance-based strike, it is neither fun for you nor the enemy. In one way, you cannot be accuracy with DBs compared to TBs while the enemy has no chance to use skill to dodge the bombs.

 

Now onto the simple solution of buffing fighter ammo. That simply does not work. While it may be good for a short term resolution, it ultimately fixes nothing. First of all; a good half of the USN line does not even get fighters in their packages. Second, it over buffs some fighters like the Bogue and Langley. Third, the ammo count of high tier CVs needs to drastically improve in order to protect your surface ally ships as the trade-off for ammo and DPS does not correlate to health gained.

 

RNG

As many of you who play this game knows; this game contains many RNG which inhibits the capacity of players. Predominantly DDs have detonations, CL/CAs have to pray they don’t get hit in the citadel, BBs have dispersion but what about CVs?

 

-Fighter vs Fighter

A huge problem with fighter vs fighter combat is it is a blatant, lazy mechanic of rolling a few dices to determine the winner. Sure, there are more skill based approaches to fighter vs fighter like the alt attack: strafing but predominantly, players will lock fighters and begin the Russian roulette to determine the winner.

 

-AA vs planes

This leads on to another sub-point; tick-based RNG. I’m sure many of you have seen 2 or 3 planes wiped out in less than a few seconds of being in AA. I think no matter what class you play, you have to think this is a real poor design of eliminating planes. When a plane squad flies into AA, again, dice are rolled to determine if the planes will get eliminated. The problem is the dice rolling per tick, meaning 1 or 2 plane dies per tick in quick succession.  This causes either your squad to live for one whole minute or getting wiped out completely in less than 5 seconds.

 

AA and META

The current meta has diverged more into BBs and DDs. There are of course server differences in classes played but overall the meta revolves around BBs and DDs now. What this leads to is the targets that CVs can choose. They can either go for BBs which are practically AA platforms or go for more vulnerable DDs which at lower tiers lack any significant defense against a plane strike. In MY experience, this is what I have been doing and I truly do not believe it is fine for a competent CV to instantly delete a DD within 2 minutes of the match.

 

CVs need to punish the larger capitals BBs – a more reliable way compared to fires from cruisers and torpedoes from destroyers. But with the recent introduction of German BBs, there are a lot more influx of BB players, meaning less CA/CLs, DDs and CVs. Even a recent WG dev has stated that they expected more DDs with the release of German BBs yet there was a decline in them. While there may be national peculiarities of each nation, the AA between the two best nations for AA really does not show this peculiarity. As a great mod once said “Data is more reliable since feedback can be laced with hyperbole and idioms.”

 

Lets take USN BBs vs German BBs. I will be using 2 weeks statistics as well as solo games so every game has equal chance of determining if a CV is present as well as eliminating the differences of battle amount.

 

Using the formula 1-GermanBBPlaneKill/USNBBPlaneKill:

The Montana shoots down 3% more planes than the Grober Kurfurst.
The Iowa shoots down 11.4% more planes than the Friedrich der Grobe.
The North Carolina shoots down 6.5% more planes than the Bismarck.
The Colorado shoots down 65.7% LESS planes than the Gneisenau.
The New Mexico shoots down 38.8% LESS planes than the Bayern.
The New York shoots down 56.3% LESS planes than the Konig.
The Wyoming shoots down 35.7% LESS planes than the Kaiser.
 

There is evidently a problem with these percentages when the famed USN has less planes than Germans. The Colorado C hull has an AA rating of 55 with 353 overall DPS while Gneisenau B hull has an AA rating of 64 with 290 overall DPS. This should correlate to 21.7% more planes shot down by Colorado. Meanwhile the North Carolina has an AA rating of 77 with 547 overall DPS while Bismarck has an AA rating of 62 with 374 overall DPS. This should mean the North Carolina will shoot down 46.3% more planes.

 

Tho I have strayed far from my main point. Attacking BBs now will guarantee you losing planes. They say a CV is at its most deadly during late game but that is contradictory as it does and will lose planes attacking most surface targets, not to mention losing 5 Shokaku fighters to one Iowa catapult fighter, either 1) the AA is overpowered or 2) this RNG way of determining if something dies is flawed.

Apologies to ManaTnT and TexJapan for using your names. Notice my 4^th and 3^rd fighter downed in back to back ticks.

As a WG Dev stated here:
Plane destruction probability for current tick (V) is V=100/T9100%/current ticks remaining).

So destruction probability for each tick depends on:

- Quantity of passed ticks - the less ticks remain, the more is probability

A lot of the time a plane will be instantly deleted from the squad as it enters into an AA aura which is contradictory to the linear progression a squad is required to die. This is my speculation due to tick-barrage where every AA gun fires as the plane enters the aura, causing a huge amount of damage that the probability of a plane dying is huge.

 

0.5.12 and economy
What really lead me to writing this is the fact that there is another nerf, this time on the economy of CV players. With the introduction of the new economy quoted “The fee for the ship repair is now completely replaced by a fixed service charge. This means that the cost will not depend on how much damage a player has received. Moreover, we have reduced the cost of replenishing the ammunition (or air group) for a number of ships.”

 

On paper, it may sound like a buff to CVs but what has secretly happened is a nerf for competent players. CVs naturally are taxed high, require the most experience to go up the line, suffer a lot more drastically from being stock and have the worst exp modifier. With the new economy comes a new exp modifier. Players are now required to not only deal damage, but also spot and shoot down planes (they should have before as well), but the planes and spotting are now attributed into their existing modifier as shown below.

 

Now, they get a worse exp rate, meaning all CVs will on average, receive less income, despite the “buffs”. Also a huge contradictory of spotting for your team in high tiers is the fact that DDs in T8-10 have AA which WILL shoot down planes. It is impossible to spot a DD for a prolonged amount of time due to their detection being lower than their AA firing range. The only real DDs which struggle to shoot down planes are IJN ones and even then, in prolonged times, will shoot down your planes.

 

Conclusion and suggestions
I’m not asking for a simple buff this or nerf this solution, I am asking for a rework which is the only way to fix CVs. WG hints there is a rework but I fear if it will be successful or not based on these patches. Even I do not know how to properly fix CVs but there are definitely some things which needs to and can be fixed right now:

 

Players
A CV is more able to influence the tide of the battle and when you have a unicum player against an average player, one team already has a huge advantage.

 

T8-10 CV Defensive fire
In no way does this need to last for 2 minutes. An “immune to planes” button is good as it doesn’t subtract one cruiser from the team but 2 minutes of immunity is just plain stupid. 30 seconds is plenty to suppress an attacking squad while you retract your fighters/launch your fighters.

 

UI
The UI is what many CV players seem complain about but I believe it is fine. Small improvements could be made like setting macros but overall, it is complete.

 

Autopilot
They really need to fix this as you will often find your carrier sailing right into the enemy or a position in which you did not order it to go.

 

Air Supremacy skill
This skill has more weighting than say Concealment Expert or any 5 point skill as it gives squads a massive boost, not just a 1/7^th or 1/5^th boost. (Shokaku fighters gain like 50% more DPS). This is very unfair when you have one CV with the skill.

 

AA Aura modifiers
Fighters engaged in combat against an enemy squad under ally AA should gain a DPS boost, not just a higher probability of it winning due to the combination of the AA.

 

Believe me; I have a lot more to discuss about but ultimately, it is up to WG to fix it and the hope that they successfully do is slimmer than an IJN DD.

[Taichunger]

CVs dying? That's good for those of us who get into the game to play it, not to get cross-dropped and killed two minutes in. CVs reduce game playability and immersiveness, WG admitted that when it hard-balanced them in the MM and restricted their number. The whole class should simply be removed from the game. Happy to hear this good news about CVs.

[Lampshade_M1A2]

CVs dying? That's good for those of us who get into the game to play it, not to get cross-dropped and killed two minutes in. CVs reduce game playability and immersiveness, WG admitted that when it hard-balanced them in the MM and restricted their number. The whole class should simply be removed from the game. Happy to hear this good news about CVs.

 

Then what the hell are all of those AA guns on my ship for?

[Wo_9]

Make's CV's not overly frustrating to play and tone down AA a bit.   

 

you really cannot argue how shafted CV's gotten in the past patches its just ridiculous and asinine to argue against it.  there was no justifcation to nerf CV's like WG have chosen to none, nothing, none at all. 

 

you could have chosen to just power-creep AA but nooooooo that just wasn't enough was it. 

[renegadestatuz]

 

Then what the hell are all of those AA guns on my ship for?

 

Not to mention the point of the USN cruiser line, seeing as that line is meant for AA.

[Also_sprach_Zarathustra]

Not sure what you're implying kiddo...

I see them in 100% of my games...

Also OP seems to mysteriously have a stupid-unicum winrate with a certain class!

NERF

[CorradoG60]

Funny post by someone who plays CV's 91% of the time and has purple stats in them.

 

CV's are the worst part of WOWS and I personally think they should be removed or nerfed into oblivion. They are exactly like arty in WOT.

 

They sit in the back and farm massive damage on the enemy while being the last ones to die. Nothing worse then being in a slow BB and have a CV's drop torps on you at 2kmh away and you lose 3/4 of your health 4 minutes into the game.

[manavdharma]

In other words, CVs are a rare species. 

[CorradoG60]

In other words, CVs are a rare species.

 

I wish that were true but it seems that almost every battle I have there's 2 on both teams.

[manavdharma]

 

I wish that were true but it seems that almost every battle I have there's 2 on both teams.

 

i can tell ur not into CVs. 

[Gavroche_]

C'est la vie

[Gabriel_LXIX]

I'll remember this thread next time I'm deleted by a CV

 

 

[Royeaux]

Unless we get more rewards for destroying planes, otherwise CVs are cancer, inflicting damage at no risk to themselves and providing no rewards to their enemies.  Most CVs I see just sail for the corner of the map and remain stationary forcing any ship that wants retribution to sail completely out of their to cause any damage.

[SwirvinBirds]

Pfft... 3 matches in a row played. 3 matches in a row killed by CV's. 3 matches in a row with 2 CV's per side.

All tier 4 matches to be fair but no flipping way would I like to see this trend in higher tiers. 2 were deaths by 3 TB bomber cross drops, 1 a detonation from a DB in a Yubari.

[Valdez_Raptor]

CV's are needed for the overall balance of the game.   You are all crying cause you can't instantly hit them.  So?  Its the same mentality with artillery in tanks.  "Someone shot me and I can't hit him back right this moment!  He's evil!  Needs to be nerfed!  It sucks!"   Playing a an art in tanks or CV in ships is not skillless.  Jap CV's have an edge yup, it sucks when a friendly CV doesn't have fighters cause, honestly they need fighters to do part of their job.  Lower tier CV's can be a bit much due to the complete lack of AA CA's have.  Outside of that, it broaden's game play.  And has people need to work together.

[Atomic_Manatee]

Remove Carriers altogether and replace them with what? Submarines?

 

[Taichunger]

 

Not to mention the point of the USN cruiser line, seeing as that line is meant for AA.

 

Nonsense. The point of the USN cruiser line is to be XP for everyone else. 

[Taichunger]

CV's are needed for the overall balance of the game.   You are all crying cause you can't instantly hit them.  So?  Its the same mentality with artillery in tanks.  "Someone shot me and I can't hit him back right this moment!  He's evil!  Needs to be nerfed!  It sucks!"   Playing a an art in tanks or CV in ships is not skillless.  Jap CV's have an edge yup, it sucks when a friendly CV doesn't have fighters cause, honestly they need fighters to do part of their job.  Lower tier CV's can be a bit much due to the complete lack of AA CA's have.  Outside of that, it broaden's game play.  And has people need to work together.

 

Nope, not needed for overall balance. Most of us have played thousands of matches without CVs and no one has said "Wow, this match is sooooo unbalanced!" in any of them. 

 

CVs dont balance or broaden gameplay. Quite the opposite -- CVs lead to unbalanced games and more rapid collapses. That is their function. Like artillery, they exist only to remove ships and shorten the game, enabling WG to put more games through the server. 

 

 

[awiggin]

Make's CV's not overly frustrating to play and tone down AA a bit.   

 

you really cannot argue how shafted CV's gotten in the past patches its just ridiculous and asinine to argue against it.  there was no justifcation to nerf CV's like WG have chosen to none, nothing, none at all. 

 

you could have chosen to just power-creep AA but nooooooo that just wasn't enough was it. 

 

Then by the same token, buff the AA in lower tiers, or nerf Tier 4-5 CV's, so they don't have easy mode....

[Zhoyzu]

CVs dying? That's good for those of us who get into the game to play it, not to get cross-dropped and killed two minutes in. CVs reduce game playability and immersiveness, WG admitted that when it hard-balanced them in the MM and restricted their number. The whole class should simply be removed from the game. Happy to hear this good news about CVs.

 

youre as bad as issm. you hate something just to hate it. BBs are more game breaking than CVs are.

[Zhoyzu]

Funny post by someone who plays CV's 91% of the time and has purple stats in them.

 

CV's are the worst part of WOWS and I personally think they should be removed or nerfed into oblivion. They are exactly like arty in WOT.

 

 

They sit in the back and farm massive damage on the enemy while being the last ones to die. Nothing worse then being in a slow BB and have a CV's drop torps on you at 2kmh away and you lose 3/4 of your health 4 minutes into the game.

 

BBs are the closest WoWs has to Arty in WoT

[Royeaux]

 

Nope, not needed for overall balance. Most of us have played thousands of matches without CVs and no one has said "Wow, this match is sooooo unbalanced!" in any of them. 

 

CVs dont balance or broaden gameplay. Quite the opposite -- CVs lead to unbalanced games and more rapid collapses. That is their function. Like artillery, they exist only to remove ships and shorten the game, enabling WG to put more games through the server. 

 

 

 

Quite the opposite, games without CVs tend to be more profitable and enjoyable because usually all ships will be within the engagement zone.

[CorradoG60]

 

BBs are the closest WoWs has to Arty in WoT

 

Um the would be heavy tanks in WOT. Arty is the same as CV's.

 

[edited]

 

Moderated by Volier_Zcit

[Hyyena]

 

Quite the opposite, games without CVs tend to be more profitable and enjoyable because usually all ships will be within the engagement zone.

 

For DDs. 

BBs dont move with team in games without cvs, they just sit back and sniping/reverse.

[shootieboats]

Not sure what you're implying kiddo...

I see them in 100% of my games...

Also OP seems to mysteriously have a stupid-unicum winrate with a certain class!

NERF

 

Gimme a day or two and I'll have my Freddy G ready to roll and we'll drag that Essex W/R out of the gutter. Lolz at 7 game sample size. =P