Member a Time When Cruisers Open Up on Spotted DDs? I member.

[NeutralState]

Seriously, wth happened to cruiser captains. It wasn't like this back in alpha and beta, or even early release. Back then cruisers fire and seek out DDs. Now they all just sit back and spam HE on BBs 10s of km away while the entire team getting butt murdered by waves and waves of torpedoes from SPOTTED enemy DDs.

 

Rarely any cruisers offer fire support to friendly screening DDs then complains about "useless DDs" when their screening DDs die.

 

Entire matches reduce to whichever side DD survives close in torpedo soup gets to torp soup the remaining campers and set them all on fire with HE.

 

On the rare occasion some cruisers actually carry and use hydro/sonar AND engage enemy DDs, it makes a huge difference on the outcome of the match.

 

Do people NOT realize reward is based on % dmg done and not raw numbers?

[Zhoyzu]

why move forward when the BBs wont support.

the issue is the BB players not the cruiser players

[Unabletony]

*hides caused I just got Arsonist with an Aoba firing HE on a full HP CV

[The_GoDDfather]

*Looks at thread while blasting NC's broadside with Hindenburg*

[Canadatron]

I've been thinking about forsaking any and all stats soon and I am going to start parking behind the BBs in my Destroyers. That way I'm not spotting for ships that are afraid to get their hulls splashed with water, let alone actually engaging the enemy with all those guns and armour. If the BBs push, I'll follow, but if not, oh well looks like I'm here at the 10 line with the rest of them...

[Battlecruiser_Amagi]

Well, because it's better to have DAAF rather than Hydro, most cruisers seem to run with it. That means less capabilities for DD hunting. Coupled with a cruiser captain's fear of getting assblasted with 3 citadels by BB's, you tend to want to reveal your location less often. Also, you mentioned that a cruiser would opt to kill a BB over a DD. That's true, as a cruiser's main enemy is a BB, they want to get rid of them ASAP.

 

I do go after DD's, both in my cruisers and battleships, as you get XP based on the percentage of DMG done, therefore, DD's are great source of quick XP. But again, cruisers have to look after themselves, since battleship players tend to ignore other battleships, in order to go for the easier kills that cruisers present.

[NightHawkS117]

why move forward when the BBs wont support.

the issue is the BB players not the cruiser players

 

Really. Really now. Why would a BB move forward to support a cruiser, when there is a DD the cruiser hasnt killed waiting to torp him.

[Canadatron]

 

Really. Really now. Why would a BB move forward to support a cruiser, when there is a DD the cruiser hasnt killed waiting to torp him.

 

Nobody move, nobody gets hurt. I like this new meta.

[NightHawkS117]

 

Nobody move, nobody gets hurt. I like this new meta.

 

Yeah, well Im sick of BBs getting the blame for something that is cruisers problem. I lay suppressive fire for my team when I play, and when they kill the DDs I will move forward. But I will not sail a BB into an area with a stealthed DD in it. That is suicide.

[Zhoyzu]

 

Yeah, well Im sick of BBs getting the blame for something that is cruisers problem. I lay suppressive fire for my team when I play, and when they kill the DDs I will move forward. But I will not sail a BB into an area with a stealthed DD in it. That is suicide.

 

you cant lay supressive fire from 17+km out

[gurudennis]

Nobody move, nobody gets hurt. I like this new meta.

 

Haha, so true. One game yesterday I earned First Blood some 11 minutes into the match. That's past the halfway mark.

[Canadatron]

 

you cant lay supressive fire from 17+km out

 

80% of people currently playing Battleship are shocked with your opinion, sir.

 

[danojaye]

 

Nobody move, nobody gets hurt. I like this new meta.

 

Been that way for a while ;)

 

[Raptor_alcor]

Considering I just got out of two matches where my cruisers were torn apart by bismark secondaries and nothing else, there's alot that's causing cruiser captains to balk. 

[Silver_not_grey]

 

80% of people currently playing Battleship are shocked with your opinion, sir.

 

 

Yep, if I see a Bismarck heading to a Cap that I'm in... Beep-beep, I'm out of there.

[YaBoyHankHill]

Pepperidge Farms Remembers...

[Blutbad]

Citadels,citadels and more citadels that's the reason for the conservative approach CLs take,BBs have learned that as soon as a CL is spotted and before they can get a good feel for the different targets just shoot AP, if they offer their broadsides so much the better but it's not a must I got cited in all kinds of angles and given their long range if a DD spots you they telegraph a cit from off the map, I learned to use islands for the most part but I can't cover DDs as before, and DDs are becoming skittish themselves, the game is evolving in ways nobody wants but it's up to us and devs to figure ways to change this state.

[jlo411]

 

Nobody move, nobody gets hurt. I like this new meta.

 

lmai

[inktomi19d]

It's math -- a cruiser moving close enough to bully enemy DDs is in prime range for enemy BBs, and the cruiser is a much more vulnerable ship than DDs are.

 

Depending on the cruiser, you need to be 7-10 km from a DD before you can reliably hit it (7km for rainbow-launchers, 10 for most CAs). Outside that you might hit, but that mostly depends on good aim and a stupid DD who doesn't turn. For quick kills you want to be even closer.

 

Your own DDs are going to stop advancing as soon as they spot or are spotted by the enemy DDs, so they will be 5-7km from the enemy DDs.

 

BBs can hit relatively reliably at 14km (more for some ships, especially at higher tiers). They are generally safe from torpedoes  8 or 9 km from the enemy. This means that a cruiser who is in range to shoot enemy DDs, is in range to get citadeled by enemy BBs.

 

Angling and bow-tanking don't work for cruisers at most tiers (I think the tier 3 protected cruisers are the exception, but there might be tier 9 and 10 cruisers that are exceptions). Most of the cruiser is overmatched by BB guns. In addition, cruisers can easily kill one-another, with the advantage going to whichever one avoided being spotted. This vulnerability means that BBs are much more of a threat to cruisers than cruisers are to DDs. At the ranges needed for fighting DDs, cruisers also kill each other faster than they do DDs (however bad my Atlanta hurts DDs, I don't get 8 citadel volleys on DDs).

 

I mean, I do play my cruisers primarily to bully DDs, but cruisers are completely unequipped to survive at that range, and 100% dependant on their team. I need allied DDs ahead of me slightly (like 1-2km, so within 5km of the enemy DDs), both to spot (torpedoes more than the DD, since I need to drive pretty predictably to close the gap), and to look scary to enemy BBs and make them think about evasive action. I also need BBs close behind (again, no more than 1-2km)  to vaporize enemy CAs before they get me or our DDs, and to be a bigger, easier target for enemy BBs to shoot at and hopefully draw a little fire off me.

 

Almost every time I go hunting DDs, my team's DDs either hide behind me, hide behind a rock, or hide in smoke, all of which take away any value they had and leaving me to do their portion of the teamwork. Fine, I charge into smoke all the time anyway, and I think my bow is probably already pointed into the torpedoes.

 

Also, if I'm hunting DDs then the BBs all spotted DDs on their minimap, so they all backed off while the enemy BBs all see a citadel charging towards them at 30 knots, and they have no better targets to shoot at since the rest of my team vanished. Okay, I knew it was a one-way mission.

 

And to top off the suicide mission, in order to do it well you need to hold off on firing until you get close to enemy DDs (because if you are spotted, they won't be there) and that is horrible for your earnings and damage done. And since it's pretty much guaranteed that if you are in a cruiser doing teamwork, you'll be the only one doing teamwork, you will almost always lose your ship or 75% of it before you kill the DD, which means you get a crappy survival rate, and dying early is also bad for earnings.

 

 

In lower tiers it's not nearly that bad, because BBs are unlikely to hit you more than 10-12 km away. In tier 10 matches, anything but DDs can hit you at 15, so the second you are spotted going for that DD, the whole enemy team fires at you.

 

 

 

 

[inktomi19d]

Considering I just got out of two matches where my cruisers were torn apart by bismark secondaries and nothing else, there's alot that's causing cruiser captains to balk. 

 

Yeeeaaah... that too...

 

In an Atlanta it always sucks being on the same map as that thing because if I can hit him, his secondaries can hit me.

[gurudennis]

Considering I just got out of two matches where my cruisers were torn apart by bismark secondaries and nothing else, there's alot that's causing cruiser captains to balk. 

 

What in the world were you doing so close?

[NeutralState]

It's math -- a cruiser moving close enough to bully enemy DDs is in prime range for enemy BBs, and the cruiser is a much more vulnerable ship than DDs are.

 

Depending on the cruiser, you need to be 7-10 km from a DD before you can reliably hit it (7km for rainbow-launchers, 10 for most CAs). Outside that you might hit, but that mostly depends on good aim and a stupid DD who doesn't turn. For quick kills you want to be even closer.

 

Your own DDs are going to stop advancing as soon as they spot or are spotted by the enemy DDs, so they will be 5-7km from the enemy DDs.

 

BBs can hit relatively reliably at 14km (more for some ships, especially at higher tiers). They are generally safe from torpedoes  8 or 9 km from the enemy. This means that a cruiser who is in range to shoot enemy DDs, is in range to get citadeled by enemy BBs.

 

Angling and bow-tanking don't work for cruisers at most tiers (I think the tier 3 protected cruisers are the exception, but there might be tier 9 and 10 cruisers that are exceptions). Most of the cruiser is overmatched by BB guns. In addition, cruisers can easily kill one-another, with the advantage going to whichever one avoided being spotted. This vulnerability means that BBs are much more of a threat to cruisers than cruisers are to DDs. At the ranges needed for fighting DDs, cruisers also kill each other faster than they do DDs (however bad my Atlanta hurts DDs, I don't get 8 citadel volleys on DDs).

 

I mean, I do play my cruisers primarily to bully DDs, but cruisers are completely unequipped to survive at that range, and 100% dependant on their team. I need allied DDs ahead of me slightly (like 1-2km, so within 5km of the enemy DDs), both to spot (torpedoes more than the DD, since I need to drive pretty predictably to close the gap), and to look scary to enemy BBs and make them think about evasive action. I also need BBs close behind (again, no more than 1-2km)  to vaporize enemy CAs before they get me or our DDs, and to be a bigger, easier target for enemy BBs to shoot at and hopefully draw a little fire off me.

 

Almost every time I go hunting DDs, my team's DDs either hide behind me, hide behind a rock, or hide in smoke, all of which take away any value they had and leaving me to do their portion of the teamwork. Fine, I charge into smoke all the time anyway, and I think my bow is probably already pointed into the torpedoes.

 

Also, if I'm hunting DDs then the BBs all spotted DDs on their minimap, so they all backed off while the enemy BBs all see a citadel charging towards them at 30 knots, and they have no better targets to shoot at since the rest of my team vanished. Okay, I knew it was a one-way mission.

 

And to top off the suicide mission, in order to do it well you need to hold off on firing until you get close to enemy DDs (because if you are spotted, they won't be there) and that is horrible for your earnings and damage done. And since it's pretty much guaranteed that if you are in a cruiser doing teamwork, you'll be the only one doing teamwork, you will almost always lose your ship or 75% of it before you kill the DD, which means you get a crappy survival rate, and dying early is also bad for earnings.

 

 

In lower tiers it's not nearly that bad, because BBs are unlikely to hit you more than 10-12 km away. In tier 10 matches, anything but DDs can hit you at 15, so the second you are spotted going for that DD, the whole enemy team fires at you.

 

 

 

 

 

Bullcrap.

 

You don't have to be actually holding your DD's hand. Due to faster reload on cruiser, you can stay with your BBs and still offer significant fire support to screening DDs. Most maps will not give cruisers 20 km away from any BB, aka BB's max range. Most maps would see engagement at 15 km range, well around cruiser's max firing range so they still can maneuver and dodge as usually.

 

The key point here is that cruisers reloads much faster than BB, deals more damage per shell than DD. Not to mention all cruisers are support. It is their role in game to offer fire support to whichever other ships that are required. Early game and mid game, that support belongs to friendly DDs because BBs are still lagging behind and most if all would still have full or near full HP, making cruiser's support to engage BBs unnecessary. 

 

People simply like the feeling of all of their HE shells hitting a slow moving BB rather than some of them misses on DDs. But keep in mind even a single cruiser HE shell can do significant damage to a DD. Usually one or two salvo is all it takes to turn the tide of DD vs DD battle in early game.

[BadlyBrowned]

Angling and bow-tanking don't work for cruisers at most tiers (I think the tier 3 protected cruisers are the exception, but there might be tier 9 and 10 cruisers that are exceptions).

 

The Baltimore and the Des Moines can angle against the 15in guns on the Tirpitz/Bismarck but not the 16in guns. The rest of the high tier cruisers have bows that get overmatched by anything 15inches or greater. 

[Sir_Godz]

why move forward when the BBs wont support.

the issue is the BB players not the cruiser players

 

I have to agree. Way too many BBs hanging back which makes it extra hard to cover DDs

[Thewavis]

Okay. There is a flow to a match. BB's cannot push because torpedoes wreck them. Enemy DD's need to be taken out and a BB needs eyes in order to fire. no forward spotting, no shooting. If enemy DD's are engaged properly, than the battleship can help. When i play i shoot at the target presenting the best opportunity. i would prefer to knock the enemy ship's health to below half and move on while i let my team fight for the kill. the more ships that are heavily damaged, the better mop up job they can do. I also start flank speed so i draw a lot of fire in my Amagi making it easier for the cruisers and DD's to fire back at soft targets while i scramble not to die. once a zone has been softened up, i will turn and push. I try to pin three to four ships at a time so the rest of the team enjoys a quantitative advantage in other sectors. Maybe I am an exception to the rule, but I help my team by going for caps or drawing fire away from my support ships, then turn back and lead them to my team mates to relive me of withering fire. The times i die are when my team is not behind me so I am a sitting duck, but even when I am dead, the enemy is so far away from their brethren, that I hope my team has taken advantage and can pull out the win.