Strait, and Joining up.

[Estimated_Prophet]

Obviously it must work; otherwise everyone who uses the tactic must be insane; ('Definition of insanity being trying the same thing again and again and expecting different results.')

 

At the same time there is also; 'There is always an exception to every rule.'

 

Well, I must be that exception; because the number of times I have seen 'Everyone join up on one side!' work in nearly FIVE-THOUSAND games could be counted on one hand.

 

Because of that I have ZERO faith in the ability of the tactic to work. I see everyone starting to run to one side on Strait and just shake my head; to me that means the game is already lost.

 

Does that mean mentally I've already given up? Probably, even if I still fight hard; but it's difficult not to get depressed seeing people trying to do something I've seen fail so many times the statistical chance of success is approaching 0%...

 

Like an earlier, more positive thread posted today; this is just a 'get it off my chest' kind of rant post after the usual name calling-during a relevant battle on Strait. ("Thanks for not coming North you blankity-blanks!")

 

One positive thing about the battle; I still managed to complete the 30k damage daily during the fight. (Upgraded Bayern, 10 pt capt.)

[Wepps]

I've found it doesn't work. You end up losing a slow boat or two in the transition and not enough guns to save them. To me it's foolish.

[Umikami]

I have always had good luck with the tactic, though I will readily concede the point you make that slower ships have a more difficult transition from north to south or vice/versa. In games I have seen CL's and CA's cover retreating USN BB's and Langley's (these are the ships I automatically think of when I think of ships being slow.)

Like a lot of things which are successful if you play with supportive people, cover from friendly forces is incredibly helpful, and, sadly, all too rare.

[Stauffenberg44]

Bad plan, perhaps perfect justice for a bad map.

[Crucis]

There is some logic to the joining up strat when you're fighting a Standard mode battle.  But it's utterly ridiculous in a domination mode battle because you're surrendering one of the cap points.

 

The biggest failing of the join up strat is that you're taking a number of your ships out of the fight for a period of time, and possibly even just letting the enemy get nearly free kills on one or two of your slowest, but most powerful ships (BB's or CV's).

 

Strait is probably the map I most hate in the game for this reason.  I've never been one to want any map removed from WoWS (or WoT, for that matter).  But this is a map that absolutely screams for a major rework to fix this idiotic "join up" strat problem, or to have the map removed entirely.

 

 

 

 

[mrh308]

This and everyone to C on Neighbors are the two dumbest strategies I see with regularity.

[Swine_007]

The join up tactic can work if it's done quickly AND if it's standard mode.  

 

When other players suggest it as a strategy on Strait when it's Domination mode i tend to get salty and  because in Domination mode the team that tries this WILL lose. 

 

edit:  Crucis types faster than I do apparently ... but pretty much what he said. 

[Crucis]

I have always had good luck with the tactic, though I will readily concede the point you make that slower ships have a more difficult transition from north to south or vice/versa. In games I have seen CL's and CA's cover retreating USN BB's and Langley's (these are the ships I automatically think of when I think of ships being slow.)

Like a lot of things which are successful if you play with supportive people, cover from friendly forces is incredibly helpful, and, sadly, all too rare.

 

 

See, this is the problem. Let's say that you have a situation where you have 8 ships north, and 4 ships south.  And that the 4 south ships are a pair of cruisers, a US BB, and a Langley.

 

Now, I can understand why the 4 ships in the south would think that heading north would be a good idea.  But if the 2 cruisers immediately head north and abandon the BB and CV, frankly, your team is, barring a miracle, going to lose.

 

I really do hate this map because of this "join up" problem.

 

 

[GhostSwordsman]

There is some logic to the joining up strat when you're fighting a Standard mode battle.  But it's utterly ridiculous in a domination mode battle because you're surrendering one of the cap points.

 

The biggest failing of the join up strat is that you're taking a number of your ships out of the fight for a period of time, and possibly even just letting the enemy get nearly free kills on one or two of your slowest, but most powerful ships (BB's or CV's).

 

Strait is probably the map I most hate in the game for this reason.  I've never been one to want any map removed from WoWS (or WoT, for that matter).  But this is a map that absolutely screams for a major rework to fix this idiotic "join up" strat problem, or to have the map removed entirely.

 

 

 

 

 

I think Strait would benefit from the standard battle layout of the new Archipelago map.(if not, it'd at least make it much more interesting to play) If you haven't played it yet, both teams spawn opposite of each other NW and SE, and the two bases spawn opposite each other NE and SW. So each team has to commit a small task force to the base otherwise it'll get capped out in about half the time it takes to travel to the enemy base on any other map in standard mode.

[Crucis]

This and everyone to C on Neighbors are the two dumbest strategies I see with regularity.

 

 

Going to "C" cap on the Neighbors map isn't even close to the join up strat on Strait.  That said, I don't usually like going to C on Neighbors, particularly if I'm in a BB.  if I'm in a BB, I want all the open water I can find.  The island infested waters in the NE of the Neighbors map is perfect DD waters, and not too bad for cruisers.  But not where BB's belong.

 

 

[Vindicationn]

The best part is when both teams do it....on a domination game...

[Crucis]

There is some logic to the joining up strat when you're fighting a Standard mode battle.  But it's utterly ridiculous in a domination mode battle because you're surrendering one of the cap points.

 

The biggest failing of the join up strat is that you're taking a number of your ships out of the fight for a period of time, and possibly even just letting the enemy get nearly free kills on one or two of your slowest, but most powerful ships (BB's or CV's).

 

Strait is probably the map I most hate in the game for this reason.  I've never been one to want any map removed from WoWS (or WoT, for that matter).  But this is a map that absolutely screams for a major rework to fix this idiotic "join up" strat problem, or to have the map removed entirely.

 

 

 

 

 

I think Strait would benefit from the standard battle layout of the new Archipelago map.(if not, it'd at least make it much more interesting to play) If you haven't played it yet, both teams spawn opposite of each other NW and SE, and the two bases spawn opposite each other NE and SW. So each team has to commit a small task force to the base otherwise it'll get capped out in about half the time it takes to travel to the enemy base on any other map in standard mode.

 

 

I'd do it a bit differently.

 

I'd leave the Standard mode caps where they currently are.  But I'd have each team spawn nearish to the map corner behind their cap instead.   I'd also have the ships spawn with their bows aimed roughly towards the enemy cap, so that they could decide to (if spawning in the SW, for example) go north or go east and only have a minor turn to get on the heading of their choice.

 

Come to think of it, I might even move the standard mode caps to be where the A and C caps are in domination mode, so that they were equally spaced between the east and west channels.

 

===

 

Here are a couple of other variations for this map that might work.

 

 

A.  Spawn the two teams in the SE and SW.  Place an Epicenter cap up where the A cap is in domination mode.  The two teams would have to decide whether to head directly north and over to the epicenter cap, or to head directly towards each other or towards the central channel and fight it out there.

 

B.  Place an Epicenter cap in the middle of the center channel.  Spawn the teams in the NE and SW. (This allows the SW spawning team to consider running ships up the west channel, and visa-versa for the NE spawning team.) 

 

 

[gurudennis]

Joining up on Strait works under 5 conditions:

1. It's Standard battle, not Domination.

2. The side that runs is the one opposite of the enemy cap, not the friendly cap (because duh).

3. The running side has no slow ships, especially low-tier carriers, that will be inadvertently left behind. Similarly, there are no "special" players who decide to do their own thing and stay.

4. They all run through the back channel, not through the mid.

5. The side that doesn't run avoids suicidally pressing the attack so that they can potentially benefit from the reinforcements later on.

 

Of course, for all these stars to align one must get rather lucky. Potatoes often don't recognize these conditions and try to reenact this move every time on Strait because they saw it work once. Hence why the move has such a bad rep among the better players who understand when it does or doesn't work.

[DelroyMonjo]

I thought Strait map is going to be eliminated in the next update.

[Grevester]

You basically corner yourself at the start of the game, it creates a difficult situation since you can't angle to the west and south simultaneously. It makes it difficult for destroyers to screen as well. It has advantages, like good AA power and easy for CV to cover the team and a push that can be difficult to stop if it gets rolling. However, since you create no threat to the enemy base it is hard to leave your own.

[Crucis]

I thought Strait map is going to be eliminated in the next update.

 

What makes you think this?  Just curious.

 

[BubbleRapper]

It worked once for a team I was on. Because the other team did the same thing lol (just not as quickly so their stragglers got picked off which gave us advantage).

[IceSerpen7]

Joining up on Strait works under 5 conditions:

1. It's Standard battle, not Domination.

2. The side that runs is the one opposite of the enemy cap, not the friendly cap (because duh).

3. The running side has no slow ships, especially low-tier carriers, that will be inadvertently left behind. Similarly, there are no "special" players who decide to do their own thing and stay.

4. They all run through the back channel, not through the mid.

5. The side that doesn't run avoids suicidally pressing the attack so that they can potentially benefit from the reinforcements later on.

 

Of course, for all these stars to align one must get rather lucky. Potatoes often don't recognize these conditions and try to reenact this move every time on Strait because they saw it work once. Hence why the move has such a bad rep among the better players who understand when it does or doesn't work.

 

The "no slow ships" in #3 is not really a requirement - you just need at least one DD on that side to screen / spot until the rest of that group gets to the channel.

[gurudennis]

The "no slow ships" in #3 is not really a requirement - you just need at least one DD on that side to screen / spot until the rest of that group gets to the channel.

 

Yeah, it hardly ever happens because it requires teamwork and abandonment of personal interest by the DD.

[Crucis]

The "no slow ships" in #3 is not really a requirement - you just need at least one DD on that side to screen / spot until the rest of that group gets to the channel.

 

Yeah, it hardly ever happens because it requires teamwork and abandonment of personal interest by the DD.

 

 

So true.   A DD that's willing to harass the enemy can delay the enemy, particularly an IJN DD that's spamming torps in a way that may cause lots of course changes, etc.  Even a couple of cruisers can cover the retreat of slower ships into the side channel.

 

But as you say, it requires those ships to be WILLING to do something for the TEAM, rather than just rush to the other side and say (bleep) it to the slow ships they're abandoning.  And this is why I think that this map needs either a massive rework or to be dumped.

 

 

[Viper069]

Works fine for me, but like others stated, only in standard mode.  The exception to this is if the part of the team that spawned on your flag is so bad they are dead by the time you arrive.  This happens more often than it should.

[Stauffenberg44]

"Straight, and joining up."

 

Hmm I misread that as a sort of Ann Landers couple advice thread.

[IceSerpen7]

 

Yeah, it hardly ever happens because it requires teamwork and abandonment of personal interest by the DD.

 

Not really - that screening DD is usually in position to torp something. Basically, it will go B3-C4-D5-E5-F5 or something similar, with C4-D5 being the important spotting/screening part - it can actually stay there and keep harassing the red team is situation allows (just using N --> S move for the western team as an example). Besides, CV can also do the spotting in the same area if there's one in the north group.

 

[DelroyMonjo]

 

What makes you think this?  Just curious.

 

 

Thought I read it in the News for the next update.  I am mistaken.

[IronWolfV]

Most times trying to form up in 1 squad usually means you give up the initiative and let the other team does what it wants, when it wants how it wants.