Why patch 5.12 can't go through the way it is

[Komrade_Rylo]

So as we all know, this patch has nerfed basically every tier 8-10 BB heavily except for Grosser, which only small portions of it's bow were nerfed. I'm not going to go into this because it's already been b*****d about already. My major issue with this patch is that the high tier cruisers, which were already extremely difficult to dispose of, are now receiving massive maneuverability buffs. These are the new rudder shift times for all tier 10 cruisers when fully spec'd.

 

Moskva- 5.2

Des Moine-4.1

Zao-3.7

Hindenburg-5.8

 

Now I'm not one of the greatest cruiser players on the server, but I'm very competent in them. When you stay near or at max range with these cruisers, which is how they already should be played to avoid taking damage, they now become basically immune to damage. They can shift speed and direction so quickly, that any attempts to hit them are largely unsuccessful. This buff to cruisers, as well as the nerf to battleships is going to encourage even more long range combat, and cruiser damage numbers are going to rise to even higher levels than they are already at.

#BuffMoskie #BuffZao

 

(also, with Zao I found a full rudder setup more viable than a stealth setup, yes I do have one on live, and I average 114k damage a game with it on live)

 

[Anumati]

Nerf to DDs and their ability to hit with torps.

Nerf to CVs and their ability to hit with DBs and TBs.

More than just BBs were nerfed this patch.

[Balck_]

Maybe now I'll get my Zao.

[Gabriel_LXIX]

Cruisers OP plls nerf

[yUPPatriots]

What do you expect? The game is still a WIP. Isn't it their business model?

 

0.5.11.1 where will it end begin?

 

 

 

 

 

[poeticmotion]

I'm more concerned with the massive Khab nerfbat. 

 

I agree it needed a nerf, but they overdid it. I grinded to Khab because I'm an aggressive player and DDs are about the only thing that can be aggressive at t10 most games in the current meta, and I prefer gunboats to torp spam. I have very little interest in t10 if the current nerfbat carries over to live, now. Which then negates any need for me to run premium.

[Stratego89]

WG logic: Cruisers should turn faster than dds to give them a chance of not being lolpenned cross map- instead of just fixing the core of the issue.

 

EDIT: I do agree with a buff to the modification- just not nearly as far as they went. I'd have been happy with even just the "faster repair time" bonus.

[Xannari]

Welp time to go into hibernation. I have no idea what made them think this was okay

[Stratego89]

I'm more concerned with the massive Khab nerfbat. 

 

I agree it needed a nerf, but they overdid it. 

 

Agreed. That thing annoyed the hell out of me at times- but it was solely the invisifire aspect. The VMF DDs are the "True" gunboats- nerfing the reload speed was completely unnecessary. They just needed to make them unable to invisifire with no way of fighting back.

[Captain_Rownd]

When you stay near or at max range with these cruisers, which is how they already should be played to avoid taking damage, they now become basically immune to damage.

 

Isn't sitting around at max range really boring?  Sometimes I get chased back towards the edges of the map, but I never move away from the center of the map willingly. 

 

[Crucis]

So as we all know, this patch has nerfed basically every tier 8-10 BB heavily except for Grosser, which only small portions of it's bow were nerfed. I'm not going to go into this because it's already been b*****d about already. My major issue with this patch is that the high tier cruisers, which were already extremely difficult to dispose of, are now receiving massive maneuverability buffs. These are the new rudder shift times for all tier 10 cruisers when fully spec'd.

 

Moskva- 5.2

Des Moine-4.1

Zao-3.7

Hindenburg-5.8

 

Now I'm not one of the greatest cruiser players on the server, but I'm very competent in them. When you stay near or at max range with these cruisers, which is how they already should be played to avoid taking damage, they now become basically immune to damage. They can shift speed and direction so quickly, that any attempts to hit them are largely unsuccessful. This buff to cruisers, as well as the nerf to battleships is going to encourage even more long range combat, and cruiser damage numbers are going to rise to even higher levels than they are already at.

#BuffMoskie #BuffZao

 

(also, with Zao I found a full rudder setup more viable than a stealth setup, yes I do have one on live, and I average 114k damage a game with it on live)

 

 

 

For crying out loud!!!  People have been complaining about how bad high tier cruisers are to play.   And now the devs do something to address that and you're actually COMPLAINING about it??? 

 

 

 

 

[Komrade_Rylo]

I'm more concerned with the massive Khab nerfbat. 

 

I agree it needed a nerf, but they overdid it. I grinded to Khab because I'm an aggressive player and DDs are about the only thing that can be aggressive at t10 most games in the current meta, and I prefer gunboats to torp spam. I have very little interest in t10 if the current nerfbat carries over to live, now. Which then negates any need for me to run premium.

 

it's reload went up very marginally, and the range nerf is combated by the fact that now it gets a range module

[paradat]

But I want to play dodge with my CA's. Also can I please have the patch live for just a little while? Montana wants some pay back.

[Komrade_Rylo]

 

 

For crying out loud!!!  People have been complaining about how bad high tier cruisers are to play.   And now the devs do something to address that and you're actually COMPLAINING about it??? 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever played or gone against a high tier cruiser?

 

The good players in them stay silent bc we know what they are capable of and why they don't need to be buffed.

[Crucis]

I'm more concerned with the massive Khab nerfbat. 

 

I agree it needed a nerf, but they overdid it. 

 

Agreed. That thing annoyed the hell out of me at times- but it was solely the invisifire aspect. The VMF DDs are the "True" gunboats- nerfing the reload speed was completely unnecessary. They just needed to make them unable to invisifire with no way of fighting back.

 

 

I don't know.  A small RoF might have been needed, but I agree that the invisifire thing probably needed/needs to be addressed.

 

Also, one problem I have when fighting Khabs (maybe others do or don't have this problem) is that when I can see them to shoot at them, sometimes they're moving SO fast that the lead is so great that it's almost off the screen and I have to zoom out.  But that makes aiming seem a bit more difficult.  Overall, they're just so damned hard to hit at that high speed and long range, that even if you can see them, it doesn't seem like much of an improvement.

 

 

[Crucis]

 

 

For crying out loud!!!  People have been complaining about how bad high tier cruisers are to play.   And now the devs do something to address that and you're actually COMPLAINING about it??? 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever played or gone against a high tier cruiser?

 

The good players in them stay silent bc we know what they are capable of and why they don't need to be buffed.

 

 

Sigh.

 

 

I *OWN* a Zao, a Baltimore, and a Roon.  Not to mention a Khab, a Gearing, a Shimmy, an Iowa, and an Izumo.  Of course, I've played IN and AGAINST high tier cruisers, you (bleepity bleep)!!!

 

 

[Gabriel_LXIX]

WG logic: Cruisers should turn faster than dds to give them a chance of not being lolpenned cross map- instead of just fixing the core of the issue.

 

EDIT: I do agree with a buff to the modification- just not nearly as far as they went. I'd have been happy with even just the "faster repair time" bonus.

 

So I need to point out, that turn rate/radii isn't changed. Only the ability to swing the rudder, so ,  "snaking" maneuvers 

[Zhoyzu]

 

Have you ever played or gone against a high tier cruiser?

 

The good players in them stay silent bc we know what they are capable of and why they don't need to be buffed.

 

or because they are content to let them be buffed since they are in the worst spot

[Dianeces]

 

 

I don't know.  A small RoF might have been needed, but I agree that the invisifire thing probably needed/needs to be addressed.

 

Also, one problem I have when fighting Khabs (maybe others do or don't have this problem) is that when I can see them to shoot at them, sometimes they're moving SO fast that the lead is so great that it's almost off the screen and I have to zoom out.  But that makes aiming seem a bit more difficult.  Overall, they're just so damned hard to hit at that high speed and long range, that even if you can see them, it doesn't seem like much of an improvement.

 

 

 

Let me start off with saying that I am bad@botes. Through eight games (small sample size, I know) on the PT server, I am averaging 119k damage and 1.9 kills a match. There may be an argument for the potatoes on the PT server being particularly potatoey, but the Kebab still feels ridiculously good.

[Stratego89]

 

 

I don't know.  A small RoF might have been needed, but I agree that the invisifire thing probably needed/needs to be addressed.

 

Also, one problem I have when fighting Khabs (maybe others do or don't have this problem) is that when I can see them to shoot at them, sometimes they're moving SO fast that the lead is so great that it's almost off the screen and I have to zoom out.  But that makes aiming seem a bit more difficult.  Overall, they're just so damned hard to hit at that high speed and long range, that even if you can see them, it doesn't seem like much of an improvement.

 

 

Maybe. Idk their fire rate chance off hand so maybe it will be better off for BBs. Those things are more meant to hunt cruisers it seems to me.

 

That's one of the advantages of the VMF DDs- speed. I've also had those moments where I have to aim off screen (I can't stand zooming out) but it's never been too big a deal- or I just close the gap a bit, since it gives me a better accuracy anyways. Not being able to hit them while they're visible ends up being an issue of player skill- not game balance. As far as I see it- as long as they have to hide behind an island to be able to be "immortal" while attacking it's fine. It's the same reason I say Atlanta is the most OP ship in the game but at the same time doesn't really warrant a nerf because it takes someone with a brain to use it's advantages. I've heard rumor it's armor is being slightly increased- to me that's a godsend because it means less overpens. The thing's armor is so bad it's good.

[Fog_Cruiser_Chikuma]

 

Have you ever played or gone against a high tier cruiser?

 

The good players in them stay silent bc we know what they are capable of and why they don't need to be buffed.

 

shhhhbhhhhhhh

[Stratego89]

 

So I need to point out, that turn rate/radii isn't changed. Only the ability to swing the rudder, so ,  "snaking" maneuvers 

 

Yes- I know. It's still DD-tier with these new values (assuming they are accurate). Pretty sure one or two of them even turn faster than a USN DD. Those things aren't meant to be super manueverable- but it's still ridiculous. I completely understand the concept behind the module addition- "let us dodge BB shots with less time needed to react". Just IMO that's not a solution to the problem. There's a limit to how much the "this is an arcade game" argument lets them get away with.

[Grizley]

So as we all know, this patch has nerfed basically every tier 8-10 BB heavily except for Grosser, which only small portions of it's bow were nerfed. I'm not going to go into this because it's already been b*****d about already. My major issue with this patch is that the high tier cruisers, which were already extremely difficult to dispose of, are now receiving massive maneuverability buffs. These are the new rudder shift times for all tier 10 cruisers when fully spec'd.

 

Moskva- 5.2

Des Moine-4.1

Zao-3.7

Hindenburg-5.8

 

Now I'm not one of the greatest cruiser players on the server, but I'm very competent in them. When you stay near or at max range with these cruisers, which is how they already should be played to avoid taking damage, they now become basically immune to damage. They can shift speed and direction so quickly, that any attempts to hit them are largely unsuccessful. This buff to cruisers, as well as the nerf to battleships is going to encourage even more long range combat, and cruiser damage numbers are going to rise to even higher levels than they are already at.

#BuffMoskie #BuffZao

 

(also, with Zao I found a full rudder setup more viable than a stealth setup, yes I do have one on live, and I average 114k damage a game with it on live)

 

 

You say this and you lose all credibility.  

 

I agree that Zao and Moskova do not need this, it was aimed at the DM and Hindenberg.  But hey, maybe what they want is the post rudder Zao and Moskova to be the new balance point and they will buff DM and Hindenberg to match.  If that happens I might even finish grinding through the pile of crap that is the USN 8-9CA.

[Aduial]

Lol, 3.7 second rudder shift on Zao.... gimme plz!

[Stratego89]

 

Have you ever played or gone against a high tier cruiser?

 

The good players in them stay silent bc we know what they are capable of and why they don't need to be buffed.

 

I'd say this depends on the "high tier cruiser". Mogami is infamous for being in a bad spot right now. Ibuki is not much better off. Hipper, Roon, and Hindenburg are definitely in a good spot. I can confirm the first of them myself- I love the thing. I can't speak to zao, and new orleans seems fine to me. The T9s as a whole seem to have issues (save roon) and the Des Moines is definitely fine.