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RockaholicRaven

Some of the such and such needs nerfing threads around here.

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Recently have been making me want to pull my hair out. I wonder how some of these people even find the power button on their desktops let alone type out some sort of sadist rant about such and such needs nerfed. The Greater portion of "torps need nerf" rants I see. By none other than players who have no real experience with torpedoes or don't even take the time to look at torpedo hit rate percentages across ALL tiers. Cit's take to much damage or are too large rants? Usually, always by the famous I know nothing about using my A or D keys and get killed cause straight line formations best meta/MLG level play ever. Gunboat DD's rate of fire are too fast or its range is too far? Wait a minute did I read that right? A ship is performing as intended? Must need a nerf right WG? The rants that cry about a ship doing what it's actually supposed to do, are what is ruining this game in its entirety.

 

Prime example IJN DD line titled as the TORPEDO BOATS of the game. Torpedo boats are hitting me with torps (is that not what a freaking torpedo boat is supposed to do?)WG cause using my rudder, accelerating, or decelerating at random times when detected is just too much of a task. "I'm gonna need you to put blinking lights on them 2.5km from my ship telling me which way I need to turn to avoid all of them. As well as reduce the speeds of most of them just so I get even more time to get between them!" What's WG do? listens and practically destroys the entire IJN DD line. Don't believe me? How often do you see Shimkazes nowadays? You try and tell me just as much as before they nerfed IJN torps ill call you a liar to your face.

 

Stop crying about ships working the way they are supposed to, start crying about ships not working as intended.

 

More buffs less god damn nerfs.

Edited by RockaholicRaven
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Rebuff IJN torpedoes at higher tiers. Don't super buff IJN guns (they are f*ing torpedo boats WG). Nerf USN DDs torpedoes (specifically gearing's) moderately and guns (benson and higher) SLIIIIIIIIGHTLY. I cannot emphasize that word enough... Don't nerf Khab's reload speed. It's a gunboat. It only has it's guns going for it. The invisifire was the only problem. Chisel instead of a hammer....

 

Rebuff rudder shift (slightly) and turn radius (more heavily) on BBs at higher tiers. Stick with the bow nerfs/buffs.

 

Reduce the rudder shift bonus on the new cruiser module. Cruisers do not f-ing turn faster than destroyers. Hell- if anything IJN DDs should be the ones getting a module like this to help dodge the fire spewing from USN DDs. I'd kill for a rudder shift + acceleration module instead as well.

 

Oh- and on your topic there of people whining about being hit by torpedoes from torpedo boats. So sick and tired of watching people say "torpedo spam". THERE IS NO SUCH THING. I don't hear people complaining about USN/VMF "GUN SPAM" because it's their MAIN WEAPON. For the IJN the main weapon is TORPEDOES. You CANNOT SPAM YOUR MAIN WEAPON PEOPLE. IT GOES AGAINST THE CONCEPT OF IT BEING A MAIN WEAPON.

Edited by Stratego89
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Rebuff IJN torpedoes at higher tiers. Don't super buff IJN guns (they are f*ing torpedo boats WG). Nerf USN DDs torpedoes (specifically gearing's) moderately and guns (benson and higher) SLIIIIIIIIGHTLY. I cannot emphasize that word enough... Don't nerf Khab's reload speed. It's a gunboat. It only has it's guns going for it. The invisifire was the only problem. Chisel instead of a hammer....

 

Rebuff rudder shift (slightly) and turn radius (more heavily) on BBs at higher tiers. Stick with the bow nerfs/buffs.

 

Reduce the rudder shift bonus on the new cruiser module. Cruisers do not f-ing turn faster than destroyers. Hell- if anything IJN DDs should be the ones getting a module like this to help dodge the fire spewing from USN DDs. I'd kill for a rudder shift + acceleration module instead as well.

 

Oh- and on your topic there of people whining about being hit by torpedoes from torpedo boats. So sick and tired of watching people say "torpedo spam". THERE IS NO SUCH THING. I don't hear people complaining about USN/VMF "GUN SPAM" because it's their MAIN WEAPON. For the IJN the main weapon is TORPEDOES. You CANNOT SPAM YOUR MAIN WEAPON PEOPLE. IT GOES AGAINST THE CONCEPT OF IT BEING A MAIN WEAPON.

 

Unfortunately, WG doesn't know how to buff things "slightly". For them, it's more like all or nothing. 

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Rebuff IJN torpedoes at higher tiers. Don't super buff IJN guns (they are f*ing torpedo boats WG). Nerf USN DDs torpedoes (specifically gearing's) moderately and guns (benson and higher) SLIIIIIIIIGHTLY. I cannot emphasize that word enough... Don't nerf Khab's reload speed. It's a gunboat. It only has it's guns going for it. The invisifire was the only problem. Chisel instead of a hammer....

 

Rebuff rudder shift (slightly) and turn radius (more heavily) on BBs at higher tiers. Stick with the bow nerfs/buffs.

 

Reduce the rudder shift bonus on the new cruiser module. Cruisers do not f-ing turn faster than destroyers. Hell- if anything IJN DDs should be the ones getting a module like this to help dodge the fire spewing from USN DDs. I'd kill for a rudder shift + acceleration module instead as well.

 

Oh- and on your topic there of people whining about being hit by torpedoes from torpedo boats. So sick and tired of watching people say "torpedo spam". THERE IS NO SUCH THING. I don't hear people complaining about USN/VMF "GUN SPAM" because it's their MAIN WEAPON. For the IJN the main weapon is TORPEDOES. You CANNOT SPAM YOUR MAIN WEAPON PEOPLE. IT GOES AGAINST THE CONCEPT OF IT BEING A MAIN WEAPON.

 

1. AIN'T NO TORPEDOES GETTING BUFFED,

2. IJN GUNS ARE FINE, RELOAD IS GARBO THOUGH.

3. USN DDs are perfectly fine.

4.Khab got nerfed to crap, which makes me sad.

5.Rudder shift on BBs are about to get buffed to heck.

6.Bow nerfs are a horrible idea.

7.Rudder shift may be faster than some DDs, but they don't have a tigher turning circle.

8.IJN DDs don't need 60% rudder shift.

9.There is torpedo spam, it's called having a Shimakaze division on a team xD

 

 

In my opinion, what you said here is largely invalid.

Edited by DarthDoge

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Rebuff IJN torpedoes at higher tiers. Don't super buff IJN guns (they are f*ing torpedo boats WG). Nerf USN DDs torpedoes (specifically gearing's) moderately and guns (benson and higher) SLIIIIIIIIGHTLY. I cannot emphasize that word enough... Don't nerf Khab's reload speed. It's a gunboat. It only has it's guns going for it. The invisifire was the only problem. Chisel instead of a hammer....

 

Rebuff rudder shift (slightly) and turn radius (more heavily) on BBs at higher tiers. Stick with the bow nerfs/buffs.

 

Reduce the rudder shift bonus on the new cruiser module. Cruisers do not f-ing turn faster than destroyers. Hell- if anything IJN DDs should be the ones getting a module like this to help dodge the fire spewing from USN DDs. I'd kill for a rudder shift + acceleration module instead as well.

 

Oh- and on your topic there of people whining about being hit by torpedoes from torpedo boats. So sick and tired of watching people say "torpedo spam". THERE IS NO SUCH THING. I don't hear people complaining about USN/VMF "GUN SPAM" because it's their MAIN WEAPON. For the IJN the main weapon is TORPEDOES. You CANNOT SPAM YOUR MAIN WEAPON PEOPLE. IT GOES AGAINST THE CONCEPT OF IT BEING A MAIN WEAPON.

 

 

Strat, the Khab has more than just its guns going for it.  It's VERY fast.  Its guns have excellent range for DD guns, as well as very flat shell arcs.  Its torps aren't utterly unusable, in a good, crafty player's hands.

 

As I suggested in another thread, I would see IJN DD's going two different ways.

 

1. hardcore torp boats:  Like you suggest, buff the torpedoes.  If they're going to be the best torp boats in the game, they have to REALLY be the best torp boats in the game.  Having torps that are only marginally better (if that) than some other nation's torps just isn't good enough when their guns are so weak.

 

or

 

2. Make them more generalist:  In this model, IJN torps should still be the best, but maybe only by a small margin (because complaints about torp soup and so on and so on).  But as the trade off, gunnery on these DDs should be improved considerably to the point where it was seriously competitive with other nation's gunboats.  probably not quite as good, but close enough.

 

Version 1 is the national flavor version.  The version that says torpedoes are a big part of the game, deal with it.  Version 2 is sort of a cave to the people who complain about torpedoes, but in fairness to IJN DD players, it gives them competitive guns so that their weakened torp boats can be competitive DD's.

 

 

 

And I agree with your comments on spam.

 

 

 

 

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1. AIN'T NO TORPEDOES GETTING BUFFED,

2. IJN GUNS ARE FINE, RELOAD IS GARBO THOUGH.

3. USN DDs are perfectly fine.

4.Khab got nerfed to crap, which makes me sad.

5.Rudder shift on BBs are about to get buffed to heck.

6.Bow nerfs are a horrible idea.

7.Rudder shift may be faster than some DDs, but they don't have a tigher turning circle.

8.IJN DDs don't need 60% rudder shift.

9.There is torpedo spam, it's called having a Shimakaze division on a team xD

 

 

In my opinion, what you said here is largely invalid.

A division of unicum players no matter what ship they pick is going to influence the game. The only time you see a division of 3 players in Shimakazes nowadays, I guarantee 90% of the time they are all unicum or close to. This being said that choice is not the ships fault that is a group of people exploiting a ship with a large number of torpedos and even with THAT being said im sure they STILL struggle hitting torps after IJN torp nerfs.

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Rebuff IJN torpedoes at higher tiers. Don't super buff IJN guns (they are f*ing torpedo boats WG). Nerf USN DDs torpedoes (specifically gearing's) moderately and guns (benson and higher) SLIIIIIIIIGHTLY. I cannot emphasize that word enough... Don't nerf Khab's reload speed. It's a gunboat. It only has it's guns going for it. The invisifire was the only problem. Chisel instead of a hammer....

 

Rebuff rudder shift (slightly) and turn radius (more heavily) on BBs at higher tiers. Stick with the bow nerfs/buffs.

 

Reduce the rudder shift bonus on the new cruiser module. Cruisers do not f-ing turn faster than destroyers. Hell- if anything IJN DDs should be the ones getting a module like this to help dodge the fire spewing from USN DDs. I'd kill for a rudder shift + acceleration module instead as well.

 

Oh- and on your topic there of people whining about being hit by torpedoes from torpedo boats. So sick and tired of watching people say "torpedo spam". THERE IS NO SUCH THING. I don't hear people complaining about USN/VMF "GUN SPAM" because it's their MAIN WEAPON. For the IJN the main weapon is TORPEDOES. You CANNOT SPAM YOUR MAIN WEAPON PEOPLE. IT GOES AGAINST THE CONCEPT OF IT BEING A MAIN WEAPON.

 

1. AIN'T NO TORPEDOES GETTING BUFFED,

2. IJN GUNS ARE FINE, RELOAD IS GARBO THOUGH.

3. USN DDs are perfectly fine.

4.Khab got nerfed to crap, which makes me sad.

5.Rudder shift on BBs are about to get buffed to heck.

6.Bow nerfs are a horrible idea.

7.Rudder shift may be faster than some DDs, but they don't have a tigher turning circle.

8.IJN DDs don't need 60% rudder shift.

9.There is torpedo spam, it's called having a Shimakaze division on a team xD

 

 

In my opinion, what you said here is largely invalid.

 

 

Only 1 comment in reply.

 

I disagree about bow nerfs.  I think that they're a GREAT idea.  I think that the autobounce concept on BB's bow armor is completely ridiculous.  It's one of the places on a BB with the weakest armor and it should play that way!!!  It's ridiculous that a BB can show its bow to the enemy and bounce shells all day long off armor that's only about 3 dozen mm think, while if it shows its side, it gets trashed by hits on armor that's supposed to be thick enough to defend against its own guns (more or less).  This is so backwards that it doesn't pass the laugh test.

 

 

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1. AIN'T NO TORPEDOES GETTING BUFFED,

2. IJN GUNS ARE FINE, RELOAD IS GARBO THOUGH.

3. USN DDs are perfectly fine.

4.Khab got nerfed to crap, which makes me sad.

5.Rudder shift on BBs are about to get buffed to heck.

6.Bow nerfs are a horrible idea.

7.Rudder shift may be faster than some DDs, but they don't have a tigher turning circle.

8.IJN DDs don't need 60% rudder shift.

9.There is torpedo spam, it's called having a Shimakaze division on a team xD

 

 

In my opinion, what you said here is largely invalid.

A division of unicum players no matter what ship they pick is going to influence the game. The only time you see a division of 3 players in Shimakazes nowadays, I guarantee 90% of the time they are all unicum or close to. This being said that choice is not the ships fault that is a group of people exploiting a ship with a large number of torpedos and even with THAT being said im sure they STILL struggle hitting torps after IJN torp nerfs.

 

 

I always hate seeing a full division of DD's on my team, regardless of the quality of the players.  If you only have 3 DD's on your team and they're all in the same division, that usually means they're going to only working one part of the map.  And when you're playing a Domination mode battle, it's usually better to have more DD coverage than that.  Granted that a 3 DD division of unicums would probably wreak havoc wherever they were at any moment.  But at the same time, wherever they aren't is going to have no DD coverage, no DD scouting, etc.

 

Of course, you can probably get away with it in a battle where there are 5-6 DD's on your team.  But if they're the only DD's on your team, you are going to be seriously limited if they stick together.

 

 

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1. AIN'T NO TORPEDOES GETTING BUFFED,

2. IJN GUNS ARE FINE, RELOAD IS GARBO THOUGH.

3. USN DDs are perfectly fine.

4.Khab got nerfed to crap, which makes me sad.

5.Rudder shift on BBs are about to get buffed to heck.

6.Bow nerfs are a horrible idea.

7.Rudder shift may be faster than some DDs, but they don't have a tigher turning circle.

8.IJN DDs don't need 60% rudder shift.

9.There is torpedo spam, it's called having a Shimakaze division on a team xD

 

 

In my opinion, what you said here is largely invalid.

 

1. Wrong. They get buffed sooner or later, or IJN DDs are dead for good and people start quitting. WG doesn't want quitting players because that means bye bye money and community- which means more bye bye money.

2. Agreed. I'm just a bit worried the reload buff coming to shima will be a bit much considering the guns ARE "good" by all other stat consideration. We'll see once the testing begins. It will likely be balanced out by the # of guns being lower than USN's.

3. This is bait. Not biting.

4. I personally think the reload speed nerf should not be happening on Khab. My only issue with it was invisifire and that is already being taken out. It's the true "gunboat" line among dds. It needs it's guns.

5. Probably yeah. I say it's likely to be a good thing though.

6. Not at all. Again, this is bait. Not biting.

7. True- but it's still ridiculous that a cruiser's rudder shift as fast/faster than a DD's. I'm all for a buff to the module (Yes I know it's a new module) just not to this extent.

8. That's not what I meant. I meant a better rudder shift buff module (that also reduces repair time, like the one cruisers are getting. This is the key part since for IJN DDs their maneuverability is everything) + buffs are fine. Because USN DDs are NOT fine (woops. I bit) and as it is now IJN dds have no way of properly dodging USN gunfire. You just don't want it because you know that.

9. There is no such thing as torpedo spam. Only torpedo walls. Torpedo walls exist because you can't hit jack sh*t with their torps anymore without them since they've been nerfed to hell because of whiners (like you). Furthermore- the issue of torpedo soup at high tiers is not because of the DDs, it's because of the AMOUNT of them. Limit to 3/4 per game, problem solved.

 

In my opinion, everything you say is invalid.

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1. Wrong. They get buffed sooner or later, or IJN DDs are dead for good and people start quitting. WG doesn't want quitting players because that means bye bye money and community- which means more bye bye money.

2. Agreed. I'm just a bit worried the reload buff coming to shima will be a bit much considering the guns ARE "good" by all other stat consideration. We'll see once the testing begins. It will likely be balanced out by the # of guns being lower than USN's.

3. This is bait. Not biting.

4. I personally think the reload speed nerf should not be happening on Khab. My only issue with it was invisifire and that is already being taken out. It's the true "gunboat" line among dds. It needs it's guns.

5. Probably yeah. I say it's likely to be a good thing though.

6. Not at all. Again, this is bait. Not biting.

7. True- but it's still ridiculous that a cruiser's rudder shift as fast/faster than a DD's. I'm all for a buff to the module (Yes I know it's a new module) just not to this extent.

8. That's not what I meant. I meant a better rudder shift buff module (that also reduces repair time, like the one cruisers are getting. This is the key part since for IJN DDs their maneuverability is everything) + buffs are fine. Because USN DDs are NOT fine (woops. I bit) and as it is now IJN dds have no way of properly dodging USN gunfire. You just don't want it because you know that.

9. There is no such thing as torpedo spam. Only torpedo walls. Torpedo walls exist because you can't hit jack sh*t with their torps anymore without them since they've been nerfed to hell because of whiners (like you). Furthermore- the issue of torpedo soup at high tiers is not because of the DDs, it's because of the AMOUNT of them. Limit to 3/4 per game, problem solved.

 

In my opinion, everything you say is invalid.

Now, now you can't say that after agreeing with half his post or re-clarifying from your first posts. Tsk Tsk let's all have a debate without getting agressive

Edited by RockaholicRaven

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Strat, the Khab has more than just its guns going for it.  It's VERY fast.  Its guns have excellent range for DD guns, as well as very flat shell arcs.  Its torps aren't utterly unusable, in a good, crafty player's hands.

 

As I suggested in another thread, I would see IJN DD's going two different ways.

 

1. hardcore torp boats:  Like you suggest, buff the torpedoes.  If they're going to be the best torp boats in the game, they have to REALLY be the best torp boats in the game.  Having torps that are only marginally better (if that) than some other nation's torps just isn't good enough when their guns are so weak.

 

or

 

2. Make them more generalist:  In this model, IJN torps should still be the best, but maybe only by a small margin (because complaints about torp soup and so on and so on).  But as the trade off, gunnery on these DDs should be improved considerably to the point where it was seriously competitive with other nation's gunboats.  probably not quite as good, but close enough.

 

Version 1 is the national flavor version.  The version that says torpedoes are a big part of the game, deal with it.  Version 2 is sort of a cave to the people who complain about torpedoes, but in fairness to IJN DD players, it gives them competitive guns so that their weakened torp boats can be competitive DD's.

 

And I agree with your comments on spam.

 

I know the khab has all that going for it. VMF's torpedoes are far from useless. People just say they are because they don't know how to adapt to how they're used. They're surprise hug torps, not stealth torps. Even moreso than USN's are. The VMF DD's speed allows for that to be ok. But without question they are still GUNboats. IMO nerfing the reload speed before they even tested just nerfing the range is using a hammer where they should use a chisel. Seems like WG policy to do so, though.

 

Yes. I'm personally a fan of Option 2- the generalists. The thing is- their torps are NOT the best in the game atm. Gearings' are. USN DD torps get nerfed a bit, IJN torpedoes get buffed way back up to where they should be- and bam. Everything's all good. Yes- Gearing has a longer reload and less torps per salvo. yes- they're only SLIGHTLY faster than IJNs. But it doesn't matter when IJN torpedoes cannot even hit someone at point blank- let alone take advantage of their "better" range (that really does not do anything but create a threat past 15km)- without throwing out the entire wall of torps.

 

I don't really want to see the national flavor option for 2 reasons. 1: Torpedoes really WOULD become OP because there's no limit to amount you can throw out in a game past reload speed. 2: This is personal preference and opinion- but a ship should not have a weapon just for show. If it has a weapon, it needs to be viable whether it's the main weapon or a secondary. There's specialization and then there's being completely unable to perform in certain situations. I don't like ships that are the latter. It screams imbalance to me.

 

TL;DR I actually prefer the second option- it's just gotta be a "guns are viable torpedoes are the best" situation- which with just gun buffs to IJN atm it will not be. USN are supposedly jack of all trades- they need the master of none part. They already got the gun part down on that because of the VMF. They're just failing at the torpedo part. Their torpedoes aren't exactly OP- it's just because IJNs have been nerfed into the ground.

Edited by Stratego89

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Unfortunately, WG doesn't know how to buff things "slightly". For them, it's more like all or nothing. 

 

Chisel and hammer. I agree. That's one of their major issues as developers. Part of the issue probably stems from the fact that there's a LOT to work on in a game this big. That just makes it all the more worse though because of balance ripples.

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I know the khab has all that going for it. VMF's torpedoes are far from useless. People just say they are because they don't know how to adapt to how they're used. They're surprise hug torps, not stealth torps. Even moreso than USN's are. The VMF DD's speed allows for that to be ok. But without question they are still GUNboats. IMO nerfing the reload speed before they even tested just nerfing the range is using a hammer where they should use a chisel. Seems like WG policy to do so, though.

 

Yes. I'm personally a fan of Option 2- the generalists. The thing is- their torps are NOT the best in the game atm. Gearings' are. USN DD torps get nerfed a bit, IJN torpedoes get buffed way back up to where they should be- and bam. Everything's all good. Yes- Gearing has a longer reload and less torps per salvo. yes- they're only SLIGHTLY faster than IJNs. But it doesn't matter when IJN torpedoes cannot even hit someone at point blank- let alone take advantage of their "better" range (that really does not do anything but create a threat past 15km)- without throwing out the entire wall of torps.

 

I don't really want to see the national flavor option for 2 reasons. 1: Torpedoes really WOULD become OP because there's no limit to amount you can throw out in a game past reload speed. 2: This is personal preference and opinion- but a ship should not have a weapon just for show. If it has a weapon, it needs to be viable whether it's the main weapon or a secondary. There's specialization and then there's being completely unable to perform in certain situations. I don't like ships that are the latter. It screams imbalance to me.

 

TL;DR I actually prefer the second option- it's just gotta be a "guns are viable torpedoes are the best" situation- which with just gun buffs to IJN atm it will not be. USN are supposedly jack of all trades- they need the master of none part. They already got the gun part down on that because of the VMF. They're just failing at the torpedo part. Their torpedoes aren't exactly OP- it's just because IJNs have been nerfed into the ground.

 

IMO: 

USN dd line should have the best maneuverability, that should be their advantage over all other nation.

IJN should have best torps in the game (stealthiest most powerful)

Russians should have highest fire rate and speeds (gun boats pew pew)

Germany, when released, should continue with good shells arcs and better AP damage/penetration meta 

RN quicker damage control CD just like their BB's (modify once we see actual DD layouts)

so on and so fourth

Edited by RockaholicRaven

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It's too late. They have caved to the nerf demands and have set the precedent for wrecking an otherwise great game. It's not the first time I've seen it either. More like the 12th. Once you start down the nerf path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

Edited by Wepps

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Strat, the Khab has more than just its guns going for it.  It's VERY fast.  Its guns have excellent range for DD guns, as well as very flat shell arcs.  Its torps aren't utterly unusable, in a good, crafty player's hands.

 

As I suggested in another thread, I would see IJN DD's going two different ways.

 

1. hardcore torp boats:  Like you suggest, buff the torpedoes.  If they're going to be the best torp boats in the game, they have to REALLY be the best torp boats in the game.  Having torps that are only marginally better (if that) than some other nation's torps just isn't good enough when their guns are so weak.

 

or

 

2. Make them more generalist:  In this model, IJN torps should still be the best, but maybe only by a small margin (because complaints about torp soup and so on and so on).  But as the trade off, gunnery on these DDs should be improved considerably to the point where it was seriously competitive with other nation's gunboats.  probably not quite as good, but close enough.

 

Version 1 is the national flavor version.  The version that says torpedoes are a big part of the game, deal with it.  Version 2 is sort of a cave to the people who complain about torpedoes, but in fairness to IJN DD players, it gives them competitive guns so that their weakened torp boats can be competitive DD's.

 

And I agree with your comments on spam.

 

I know the khab has all that going for it. VMF's torpedoes are far from useless. People just say they are because they don't know how to adapt to how they're used. They're surprise hug torps, not stealth torps. Even moreso than USN's are. The VMF DD's speed allows for that to be ok. But without question they are still GUNboats. IMO nerfing the reload speed before they even tested just nerfing the range is using a hammer where they should use a chisel. Seems like WG policy to do so, though.

 

Yes. I'm personally a fan of Option 2- the generalists. The thing is- their torps are NOT the best in the game atm. Gearings' are. USN DD torps get nerfed a bit, IJN torpedoes get buffed way back up to where they should be- and bam. Everything's all good. Yes- Gearing has a longer reload and less torps per salvo. yes- they're only SLIGHTLY faster than IJNs. But it doesn't matter when IJN torpedoes cannot even hit someone at point blank- let alone take advantage of their "better" range (that really does not do anything but create a threat past 15km)- without throwing out the entire wall of torps.

 

I don't really want to see the national flavor option for 2 reasons. 1: Torpedoes really WOULD become OP because there's no limit to amount you can throw out in a game past reload speed. 2: This is personal preference and opinion- but a ship should not have a weapon just for show. If it has a weapon, it needs to be viable whether it's the main weapon or a secondary. There's specialization and then there's being completely unable to perform in certain situations. I don't like ships that are the latter. It screams imbalance to me.

 

TL;DR I actually prefer the second option- it's just gotta be a "guns are viable torpedoes are the best" situation- which with just gun buffs to IJN atm it will not be. USN are supposedly jack of all trades- they need the master of none part. They already got the gun part down on that because of the VMF. They're just failing at the torpedo part. Their torpedoes aren't exactly OP- it's just because IJNs have been nerfed into the ground.

 

Regarding the Khab's torps, remember that they actually have enough range that you can stealth torp with them.  IIRC, they have a range of 10 km while the Khab in a stealth build can get to around a concealment of around 9.0 or a little less.  That said, they are only 55 kt torps, so they really, really aren't good enough to make you think that the Khab can be a ninja torp boat.  They're more like a nasty surprise that you can use on occasion.  And yes, there's no argument that they are first and foremost, gunboats.  No doubt whatsoever.

 

I kind of like the generalist option as well.  The problem I have with these hardcore pure torp DDs is that when you play them, they're so darned hit or miss, because you have so little control over whether you get hits and thus can have at least a decent game.  You can have a game like I had today in my KamikazeR where I had 17 torp hits and 167k damage and 6 kills.  And then the next game, it's just as possible that you can't get a torp hit to save your life.  At least when you play a gunboat, whether you get gun hits is a lot more reliable and in your control, and whatever torpedo hits you happen to get is a nice bonus.

 

Also, the other problem for me with the pure ninja torp boat is that they're usually so damned weak with guns against same tier gunboat DD's that they need a lucky torp hit to survive such an encounter.  I guess I wish that DD's were a bit more similar so that if you were playing an IJN DD you didn't feel like you almost had to run away from any full health gunboat you spotted.

 

 

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I know the khab has all that going for it. VMF's torpedoes are far from useless. People just say they are because they don't know how to adapt to how they're used. They're surprise hug torps, not stealth torps. Even moreso than USN's are. The VMF DD's speed allows for that to be ok. But without question they are still GUNboats. IMO nerfing the reload speed before they even tested just nerfing the range is using a hammer where they should use a chisel. Seems like WG policy to do so, though.

 

Yes. I'm personally a fan of Option 2- the generalists. The thing is- their torps are NOT the best in the game atm. Gearings' are. USN DD torps get nerfed a bit, IJN torpedoes get buffed way back up to where they should be- and bam. Everything's all good. Yes- Gearing has a longer reload and less torps per salvo. yes- they're only SLIGHTLY faster than IJNs. But it doesn't matter when IJN torpedoes cannot even hit someone at point blank- let alone take advantage of their "better" range (that really does not do anything but create a threat past 15km)- without throwing out the entire wall of torps.

 

I don't really want to see the national flavor option for 2 reasons. 1: Torpedoes really WOULD become OP because there's no limit to amount you can throw out in a game past reload speed. 2: This is personal preference and opinion- but a ship should not have a weapon just for show. If it has a weapon, it needs to be viable whether it's the main weapon or a secondary. There's specialization and then there's being completely unable to perform in certain situations. I don't like ships that are the latter. It screams imbalance to me.

 

TL;DR I actually prefer the second option- it's just gotta be a "guns are viable torpedoes are the best" situation- which with just gun buffs to IJN atm it will not be. USN are supposedly jack of all trades- they need the master of none part. They already got the gun part down on that because of the VMF. They're just failing at the torpedo part. Their torpedoes aren't exactly OP- it's just because IJNs have been nerfed into the ground.

 

IMO: 

USN dd line should have the best maneuverability, that should be their advantage over all other nation.

IJN should have best torps in the game (stealthiest most powerful)

Russians should have highest fire rate and speeds (gun boats pew pew)

Germany, when released, should continue with good shells arcs and better AP damage/penetration meta 

RN quicker damage control CD just like their BB's (modify once we see actual DD layouts)

so on and so fourth

 

 

Honestly, Rock, I don't like this extreme national flavor model for DD's.  It's much more extreme than it is for other ship types in the game.  I'd rather that the differences between nations were toned down some, because I really hate being in an IJN DD and feeling like I have no choice but to run away from DD's of other nations unless they were heavily enough damaged that my guns would be enough to finish them off.

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Honestly, Rock, I don't like this extreme national flavor model for DD's.  It's much more extreme than it is for other ship types in the game.  I'd rather that the differences between nations were toned down some, because I really hate being in an IJN DD and feeling like I have no choice but to run away from DD's of other nations unless they were heavily enough damaged that my guns would be enough to finish them off.

 

Make ALL IJN dd's have slightly better detection than gunboat type DD's. This way if you get caught by a gunboat you are at fault. You can not remove a counter from a type of boat ALL ships as well as ship types should have a form of a counter. A torp boats primary counter SHOULD be aggressive gunboats.

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To clear a few things up:

 

Khab DPM absolutely is a problem, it can gun down a Gearing just because it does so much more damage even at close range and it has armor that reduces HE damage. I dont agree with the range nerf but the Gearing should be able to gun down a Khab at close range and the Khab should be better at longer ranges. Currently its got the best guns at any range. 

 

People hate massed torpedoes because it it looks a tons more scary and imposing than 6 shells every couple seconds. Massed torps are a big scary wall of nope for any player of any class, they are a major threat and they should be. However there are many good reasons why people are so afraid of them. 

 

 Shamelessly stolen from the internet1usuXYV.jpg

 

 Torp spam has been a problem in the game from the beginning thats why there are no Kitakamis in game. Shima with 15 torps is another major contributor to torp spam because its one of the few ships that has enough torps to legitimately throw down a wall of torps, People naturally gravitate to that play style because of multitude or reasons people like rogues, they like being invisible, they like torps, they like IJN ships, or they like the shima from some anime. However invisitorp ships are extremely frustrating to play against especially when they are several of them around, people need to realize this when they talk about them because its not about my fun or yours its, about the the general attractiveness of the game and when a class is setup specifically to make other peoples lives miserable it hurts the game. Stealth torp DDs are not the only ones, CVS in general and AS CVs in particular are also like this as well as USN DDs and CVs for IJN DDs. People dont like playing against something that they cant accomplish anything against. 

 

USN DDs are NOT OP, they are good at most tiers but not much better than their peers. The Gearing which is raised in this thread as needing a nerf is dealing the same damage as a Shima while winning less than 50% and getting out played by the khab 4% in win rate and 23k in damage. Not OP if you are winning less than 50% of the time. In fact the only USN DD that is the top of its tier is the Benson that wins 51.5% of the time, if that is OP than so is the Minekaze and all the other ships over 50%.

 

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Honestly, Rock, I don't like this extreme national flavor model for DD's.  It's much more extreme than it is for other ship types in the game.  I'd rather that the differences between nations were toned down some, because I really hate being in an IJN DD and feeling like I have no choice but to run away from DD's of other nations unless they were heavily enough damaged that my guns would be enough to finish them off.

 

Pretty much this. The issue with DDs is kinda the polar opposite of the issue with CVs. With CVs- there's not enough too them, so slight changes in stats end up making one side OP 100% of the time- so they can't have national flavor. With DDs there's too much to them, so the changes that add so much national flavor make them too specialized and cause balance issues.

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I always hate seeing a full division of DD's on my team, regardless of the quality of the players.  If you only have 3 DD's on your team and they're all in the same division, that usually means they're going to only working one part of the map.  And when you're playing a Domination mode battle, it's usually better to have more DD coverage than that.  Granted that a 3 DD division of unicums would probably wreak havoc wherever they were at any moment.  But at the same time, wherever they aren't is going to have no DD coverage, no DD scouting, etc.

 

Of course, you can probably get away with it in a battle where there are 5-6 DD's on your team.  But if they're the only DD's on your team, you are going to be seriously limited if they stick together.

 

 

 

Perhaps in addition to CV 1 per round, BB 5 per round, and DD 3 per round limits- they could put a 2-per class limit in divisions? I don't honestly believe in the slightest that would end up going well, but really I don't see another solution offhand.

 

You say the divisions can wreak havoc- but that's already the case. Divisions are the source of a LOT of imbalance in the game because there's no way to compare one division to another in terms of skill when MM is pairing them up.

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A division of unicum players no matter what ship they pick is going to influence the game. The only time you see a division of 3 players in Shimakazes nowadays, I guarantee 90% of the time they are all unicum or close to. This being said that choice is not the ships fault that is a group of people exploiting a ship with a large number of torpedos and even with THAT being said im sure they STILL struggle hitting torps after IJN torp nerfs.

 

^ Exactly this. At the same time I understand concerns of what havoc divisions can wreak when certain changes are made- I also feel that it should be completely disregarded because unfortunately that is just the nature of divisions. They're OP. They're unpredictable. They're unable to be measured in influence on a game and matched with an equal one before the game starts. A computer just can't tell the difference between a group of unicums divisioned up and a group of trolls divisioned up- and even if it could it can't really do anything about it because there's only so many online at any given time it can get even numbers of. A group of unicums can pick up any ship as a group and absolutely wreak havoc. That's not the ships' fault.

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I disagree about bow nerfs.  I think that they're a GREAT idea.  I think that the autobounce concept on BB's bow armor is completely ridiculous.  It's one of the places on a BB with the weakest armor and it should play that way!!!  It's ridiculous that a BB can show its bow to the enemy and bounce shells all day long off armor that's only about 3 dozen mm think, while if it shows its side, it gets trashed by hits on armor that's supposed to be thick enough to defend against its own guns (more or less).  This is so backwards that it doesn't pass the laugh test.

 

 

 

Let me guess...you are not playing on PTS and have no clue what the actual result of this change is?

 

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