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foehammer273

Battleship v Destroyer

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Hello All,

 

 

 

 

Has any consideration been given to controlling the damage low caliber shells have on battleships?  The number of times I have sunk a battleship in my destroyer with gunfire and fire, or been destroyed by a destroyer in my battleship, is ridiculously high.  I have hit a BB with a single 5" shell and done over 1K damage to that battleship.


 

In reality there is no way a destroyer could ever sink a BB with gunfire or produce damage to that degree.  Granted, they can sink a battleship with torps and "maybe" fire, but never with gunfire.  I know, I know: this is a game and not based in reality.


 

I do have a proposal for the forum to review:


 

Battleships should have two HP bars. 


 

One should be as it is now, the critical ship-wide HP.  I'll call this Crit HP.  When it hits zero, the ship sinks.  The only change to the Crit HP system I am proposing is that it is affected much slower or not at all by none penetrating hits and fires.  Crit HP is affected by torpedoes, penetrating hits of HP and AP, bomb hits that penetrate the main deck, and near misses.


 

The other HP bar should be superstructure HP (Sup HP).  Not the best name, but I digress.  The Sup HP is affected by fires, bombs that don't penetrate the main deck, non penetrating HE rounds and small caliber fire.  Sup HP, when it hits zero, does not sink the ship.  As the Sup HP decreases it will affect the rate of fire of all the battleship guns, repair times, healing times, fire fighting ability, module reload etc.  Once the Sup HP hits zero the low caliber shells can do no further damage to the ship, but can continue to put components out of action and the destroyer has crippled the battleship, but to a point.  A low caliber gun cannot cause a battleship to sink, but it can damage the superstructure and kill sailors.  Sup HP cannot be healed by the battleship.


 

Depending on the tier of the battleship and it's armor will determine how much HP said ship has for Crit HP and Sup HP.


 

I don't know if this idea has already been brought forward, as I don't frequent these forums, but there is my idea.


 

Thanks,

Foehammer


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

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It's fine as it is, can i ask what BB was sunk by destroyer gunfire? And what DD was used to sink the BB?

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In a 1v1 engagement, the DD should sink the BB. It's literally their goal in life. Unless the DD is russian in which case its goal is to watch the world burn and kill everything.

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Has any consideration been given to controlling the damage low caliber shells have on battleships?  The number of times I have sunk a battleship in my destroyer with gunfire and fire, or been destroyed by a destroyer in my battleship, is ridiculously high.  I have hit a BB with a single 5" shell and done over 1K damage to that battleship.

 

In reality there is no way a destroyer could ever sink a BB with gunfire or produce damage to that degree.  Granted, they can sink a battleship with torps and "maybe" fire, but never with gunfire.  I know, I know: this is a game and not based in reality.

 

So at first: Destroyers are supposed to kill BBs. It's their job.

 

Second: get rid of the word "reality". Is this game realistic? Nope. Otherwise battles would take hours, hit ratios would be at the bottom and Cruisers would be even more useless.

 

Battleships should have two HP bars. 

 

One should be as it is now, the critical ship-wide HP.  I'll call this Crit HP.  When it hits zero, the ship sinks.  The only change to the Crit HP system I am proposing is that it is affected much slower or not at all by none penetrating hits and fires.  Crit HP is affected by torpedoes, penetrating hits of HP and AP, bomb hits that penetrate the main deck, and near misses.

 

The other HP bar should be superstructure HP (Sup HP).  Not the best name, but I digress.  The Sup HP is affected by fires, bombs that don't penetrate the main deck, non penetrating HE rounds and small caliber fire.  Sup HP, when it hits zero, does not sink the ship.  As the Sup HP decreases it will affect the rate of fire of all the battleship guns, repair times, healing times, fire fighting ability, module reload etc.  Once the Sup HP hits zero the low caliber shells can do no further damage to the ship, but can continue to put components out of action and the destroyer has crippled the battleship, but to a point.  A low caliber gun cannot cause a battleship to sink, but it can damage the superstructure and kill sailors.  Sup HP cannot be healed by the battleship.

 

So your proposal is to make BBs invincible to lower calibre shells? So that a Yamato for example is invincible against a Chapayev even if the Chapayev fires for two hours straight? Stupid idea.

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"It's fine as it is" I disagree, but thanks for your thoughts on it.


 

It has happened many times during gameplay with me in either role.  Granted, the battleship was low health and the destroyer normally stands off or hides behind a smokescreen or island.  Or the battleship is engaged with another battleship and the destroyer just saturates the battleship with small caliber gunfire.


 

Most recently (I won't say which role I was in):


 

Scharnhorst versus Benson


 

New Mexico versus Udaloi


 

Fuso versus Gnevny


 

A destroyer should not be able to damage a battleship with gunfire the way they do.  Nor should they be able to sink a battleship with gunfire.  1,000 HP from a single 5" shell is absurd.


 

Thanks,

Foehammer


 


 


 

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HE shells will only damage a battleship if they hit the deck or superstructure. If you get a 1k damage roll for a single DD HE shell, it must have been well placed... and had RNG's blessing bestowed upon it. 

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"It's fine as it is" I disagree, but thanks for your thoughts on it.

 

 

It has happened many times during gameplay with me in either role.  Granted, the battleship was low health and the destroyer normally stands off or hides behind a smokescreen or island.  Or the battleship is engaged with another battleship and the destroyer just saturates the battleship with small caliber gunfire.

 

 

Most recently (I won't say which role I was in):

 

 

Scharnhorst versus Benson

 

 

New Mexico versus Udaloi

 

 

Fuso versus Gnevny

 

 

A destroyer should not be able to damage a battleship with gunfire the way they do.  Nor should they be able to sink a battleship with gunfire.  1,000 HP from a single 5" shell is absurd.

 

 

Thanks,

Foehammer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And a battleship should not be able to hit cruiser reliably(MB hit rate was in the single digits in RL)  And destroyers should not have torpedo reloads. And torpedoes should not have a HUD warning you of their arrival. 

 

The point is, should of's are not valid for this game. 

 

If everything was the way it "should of" been. The games would last hours upon hours and everyone would get bored. 

Edited by Cobraclutch

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View Postfoehammer273, on 22 September 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

New Mexico versus Udaloi

 

Lol! Poor New Mexico. That's symptomatic of a fail division. It could be 1 Udaloi vs 12 New Mexicos and I'd still put my money on the Udaloi. 

 

Please note that damage saturation can occur on the superstructure such that subsequent HE hits cause zero damage. You'd be very hard pressed to sink a battleship EXCLUSIVELY from HE damage. There's usually a mix of fires, AP hits, torpedoes, and floodings which contribute to their ultimate demise. 

Edited by Kombat_W0MBAT

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Battleships are supposed to have it good.

 

 

Destroyers are supposed to kill BBs with torps, not guns.

 

 

I did mention that me using the word reality was a joke, but thanks for reiterating my own point.


 


 

A BB should not be invincible to lower caliber shells, they can be damaged quite a bit by them, but not destroyed.

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"It's fine as it is" I disagree, but thanks for your thoughts on it.

 

 

It has happened many times during gameplay with me in either role.  Granted, the battleship was low health and the destroyer normally stands off or hides behind a smokescreen or island.  Or the battleship is engaged with another battleship and the destroyer just saturates the battleship with small caliber gunfire.

 

 

Most recently (I won't say which role I was in):

 

 

Scharnhorst versus Benson

 

 

New Mexico versus Udaloi

 

 

Fuso versus Gnevny

 

 

A destroyer should not be able to damage a battleship with gunfire the way they do.  Nor should they be able to sink a battleship with gunfire.  1,000 HP from a single 5" shell is absurd.

 

 

Thanks,

Foehammer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So what you want is impunity.  No, Battleships are having it real good right now, most especially so as you climb the tiers.

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Battleships are supposed to have it good.

 

 

Destroyers are supposed to kill BBs with torps, not guns.

 

 

I did mention that me using the word reality was a joke, but thanks for reiterating my own point.

 

 

 

 

A BB should not be invincible to lower caliber shells, they can be damaged quite a bit by them, but not destroyed.

 

So, if the game comes down to a BB vs. a DD that DD should just have to wait on it's torp reloads for any chance to damage the BB?

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I like your idea I really do, but its a pipe dream only as it would buff a BB even more increasing its tanking to broken op levels

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So, if the game comes down to a BB vs. a DD that DD should just have to wait on it's torp reloads for any chance to damage the BB?

 

 

Basically, no!  They can damage the hell out of a BB, but not sink it.

 

 

Anyway, just my thought on the matter.

 

Thanks,

Jason

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I like your idea I really do, but its a pipe dream only as it would buff a BB even more increasing its tanking to broken op levels

 

 

 

Thank Dev.  I know it is a pipe dream, but a fella can dream, can't he???

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Basically, no!  They can damage the hell out of a BB, but not sink it.

 

 

Anyway, just my thought on the matter.

 

Thanks,

Jason

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't WG nerf the small caliber alpha and fire chance against BB's because I remember seeing DD's get around 2-5k a salvo on my BB, but now they barely manage to get between 1-2k; cruisers on the other hand are a completely different story.

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Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't WG nerf the small caliber alpha and fire chance against BB's because I remember seeing DD's get around 2-5k a salvo on my BB, but now they barely manage to get between 1-2k; cruisers on the other hand are a completely different story.

 

1-2k HE salvos are the norm. However, you can still rack up 3-5k AP salvos when a BB is showing its broadside. 

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Battleships are supposed to have it good.

 

 

Destroyers are supposed to kill BBs with torps, not guns.

 

 

I did mention that me using the word reality was a joke, but thanks for reiterating my own point.

 

 

 

 

A BB should not be invincible to lower caliber shells, they can be damaged quite a bit by them, but not destroyed.

 

Battle ships are supposed to have it on the same level as all other ships. 

 

If you want to be invincible to low caliber shells. You need to give something up.

 

So what would you give in exchange for that immunity?

 

How about you get low cal shell immunity. And in return you loose the warning system for torpedoes? 

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DD fire on BB's is less effective now then it used to be.

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*Clicks on Sims,Clicks on Battle button. Full speed ahead spots BB at 15 kmh.

* FIRE FOR EFFECT!

* Adjust for range and speed. Successful hit!

*Spam HE every 2.2 seconds. Rinse and repeat.

*BB loses 3/4 of health to fires

* BB rage in chat about HAX and invisible DD:trollface:

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Funny thing about you mentioning 'two' hp bars.  battleships have 7 as far as I know.

 

Overall Hull hp

Then 4 sections from front to back.

Then you have superstructure

Then you have citadel HP.

 

These 7 different HP bars affect your main HP bar that you see on your screen.  So technically 8 HP bars?

 

Damage saturation is a thing.  Where if you hit the front of a ship and only the front after x amount of damage the area will get 'saturated' then drain ONLY from the overall hull HP.

 

Fire and flooding is separate and will deal damage regardless on if something is saturated or not.

Edited by Xeilin

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meh.  I've rarely had a hard time with DD's in a BB.  I'm sure it's down to captain skill, particularly at low levels but it's almost comical how easy it is to counter a DD that wants to gunfight you.  A DD that breaks vision instead of spamming HE, that's a problem.  I've even charged into smoke and got kills due to secondaries on both sides simultaneously.

 

Not saying it's easy, not saying it's doable all the time, but 1v1 is usually in a BB's favor.  A lot of that has to do with the HP pool.  Positioning and knowing when to disengage is almost as important.

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*Clicks on Gremyashchy,Clicks on Battle button. Full speed ahead spots BB at 14.3 kmh.

* FIRE FOR EFFECT!

* Adjust for range and speed. Successful hit!

*Spam HE every 3 seconds. Rinse and repeat.

*BB loses 3/4 of health to fires

* BB rage in chat about HAX and invisible DD:trollface:

 

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