[Insert Ship Type] are the whiniest players (Soapbox thread)

[Rion12]

[insert ship type] is clearly the whiniest and most annoying set of players. Have you ever noticed that with every single update [insert ship type] players are ALWAYS screaming about how it's "nerfing [insert ship type] into oblivion"? I mean, jeez. It's barely a change and they just need to git gud, deal with it, and realize that they have it better than everyone else.

 

I mean, I've been maining [insert ship type] all this time, and I've had to endure nothing but nerfs while these whiny [edited]s just get total easy-mode. Where's the buffs for [insert ship type]? WG needs to stop listening to these whiners and ba[insert ship designation]ies and realize what's best for the game. 

 

 

-satire over-

 

Now, in all seriousness, this is something I personally feel to be a fairly notable problem around here. Whenever any kind of gameplay change happens (or is announced), complaints happen. But, I get it. Complaints are inevitable, especially if it seems like a nerf to one's favorite ship type. No one really likes to have to readjust the way they play or feel like they're going to be forced to contribute less at the whims of the developers.

 

But, really, is generalizing groups of players into a convenient straw-man going to really do anything? As much fun as it is to lump all DD players into the "wanting easy zero-risk kills" mold, or making BB players out to be "FotM crybabies," what does it accomplish? If anything, it probably just makes actual rational discussion that might actually be considered by the developers more difficult (because, as cynical as I am about it, I have at least SOME faith that WG actually does look at some of the more intelligent discussion that comes out of here).

 

Now, obviously, people still try to discuss things rationally. But, it just seems like so many good ideas and arguments go unheeded and buried because the threads discussing such changes tend to be more dominated by angry shouting matches where people are more interested in making sure that the other person is aware of how much they suck, as opposed to how their argument might be more full of holes than a block of cartoonish Swiss cheese.

 

And another thing. Why is it that if someone argues against a nerf (or for a buff) for something, it seems to immediately makes them a "main" for that particular ship type, and therefore subject to the straw-manning and generalization that is so heavily used around here? 

 

This is just something to think about. How can we get a good discussion of balance if it sometimes seems like we're more interested in making each other look like idiots than actually addressing the problems and their implications?

 

-Gets off soapbox and throws it into harbor-

[Czevak]

To be fair, the bow nerf is a horrible idea.

 

Why? Well, there are many posts about it a click away and I'm about to head out sooo yeah.

[klymar8]

Here,here !  

 

[Rion12]

To be fair, the bow nerf is a horrible idea.

 

Why? Well, there are many posts about it a click away and I'm about to head out sooo yeah.

 

I mean, I'm one that opposes the bow nerf as well. I couldn't really see it doing much to actually solve the issue that it sought to solve. I've said my piece on it a few times in some of the other threads already.

 

It just felt, to me, that with the discussions surrounding it, it turned into the standard pre-change screaming matches, and I kind of hope that people might just think about it for a second and ask "Are we really getting our point across, or are we just screaming at each other?"

[scruffycavetroll]

new mode in the works...called "hugbox"

[Czevak]

 

I mean, I'm one that opposes the bow nerf as well. I couldn't really see it doing much to actually solve the issue that it sought to solve. I've said my piece on it a few times in some of the other threads already.

 

It just felt, to me, that with the discussions surrounding it, it turned into the standard pre-change screaming matches, and I kind of hope that people might just think about it for a second and ask "Are we really getting our point across, or are we just screaming at each other?"

 

Yes, it does quite degenerate into a grade-school immature yelling-fest of people's opinions.

 

Using basic logic you can figure out it's a very much bad idea and will indeed break the BB meta.

[Canadatron]

Totally stoking the fire but the BB crowd is generating massive salt. Good thing they don't play destroyers because with the amount of nerf beatings that class has had most fragile BB jocks would have offed themselves by now. Take your nerf like men ffs.

We get it, you don't want a nerf, who does? Quit acting like wimps.

[yUPPatriots]

Quit acting like wimps.

 

 

Agree. Even though he's a Canuck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr_Alex]

I have a Ryujo and surrounding Babbies both sides with TB's generates 100% salt, its hilarious, Babbies, take your nerf like a man

[DelroyMonjo]

Do BB drivers even remember the massive buff they got  when AFT was eliminated for guns above 139mm?  No,  they don't!  Yet they still cry about being burned to a crisp.

[OffShorePanda97]

I feel that to say a ship is OP or being nerfed, that have to play all classes. For example, a BB player shouldn't complain about DDs until that play then and likewise.

[Rion12]

I feel that to say a ship is OP or being nerfed, that have to play all classes. For example, a BB player shouldn't complain about DDs until that play then and likewise.

 

Well, I am a multi-type player.

 

I've been finding a whole lot of fun with USN DDs lately, and I'm working on IJN CAs as well as VMF CAs (oh gods, it's scary out there with all the BBs lining you up...but it's got its own sense of odd fun).

 

I think I never really had a problem with the IJN DDs back when they got their crazy nerf (well, apart from the Shimakaze, but I strongly maintain that the Shima itself is more of the issue as opposed to the torps themselves), so the nerf they received was somewhat confusing to me.

[DoomStomper]

+1 Rion

[Wulfgarn]

I rarely see a discussion that goes anywhere. It almost always leads to arguing and complaining about said topic. We as a community could come up with great ideas if we all could work together towards a common goal. 

 

An example that gets the devs attention.

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/92823-please-revert-the-new-tier-3-and-4-restrictive-matchmaking/#topmost

 

Personally, I feel the most complaining (anything and everything) has come from BB Captains. The majority of that seems to be pointed at DD's, and a direct result to them being nerfed, patch after patch. Unfortunately, after months a year of hearing whining from them (or the some that complain), I've developed "some" saltiness toward them (or the some that complain) to the point where I am not upset to see BB's getting nerfed. I kinda feel like it's poetic justice.

 

I would rather not feel that way, but overall reading the "Negative Nancy Forum" on a daily basis will do that to you.

 

 

 

 

 

[OffShorePanda97]

 

Well, I am a multi-type player.

 

I've been finding a whole lot of fun with USN DDs lately, and I'm working on IJN CAs as well as VMF CAs (oh gods, it's scary out there with all the BBs lining you up...but it's got its own sense of odd fun).

 

I think I never really had a problem with the IJN DDs back when they got their crazy nerf (well, apart from the Shimakaze, but I strongly maintain that the Shima itself is more of the issue as opposed to the torps themselves), so the nerf they received was somewhat confusing to me.

 

I do like the DE with ij. Cruisrers

[Rion12]

Personally, I feel the most complaining (anything and everything) has come from BB Captains. The majority of that seems to be pointed at DD's, and a direct result to them being nerfed, patch after patch. Unfortunately, after months a year of hearing whining from them (or the some that complain), I've developed "some" saltiness toward them (or the some that complain) to the point where I am not upset to see BB's getting nerfed. I kinda feel like it's poetic justice.

 

I can totally understand the annoyance with an excessively whiny category of players. If I said I'd not felt annoyance at the complaints of "other ship type" captains, I'd be lying. But, the issue I personally find around here is that people allow that desire for the "poetic justice" to cloud judgement and attempt to derail actually good arguments with screams of a change being "good" because it's some kind of "deserved comeuppance" (and yes, I think the blanket IJN torpedo nerf falls under this...I do very much believe BB players cheering it on so vivaciously was folly).

 

 

I do like the DE with ij. Cruisrers

 

I need to consider this.

[Wulfgarn]

 

I can totally understand the annoyance with an excessively whiny category of players. If I said I'd not felt annoyance at the complaints of "other ship type" captains, I'd be lying. But, the issue I personally find around here is that people allow that desire for the "poetic justice" to cloud judgement and attempt to derail actually good arguments with screams of a change being "good" because it's some kind of "deserved comeuppance" (and yes, I think the blanket IJN torpedo nerf falls under this...I do very much believe BB players cheering it on so vivaciously was folly).

 

 

I have theory that WG staff are using accounts here to sabotage good discussions, or misdirect. If I owned a game such as this, I'd have my team doing the same if I needed to do it.

 

It's either that, and/or we just have a bunch of D**Ks within the community that enjoy complaining more than actually playing the game. I put forth a concerted effort after the first few months of being here to try to bring some positivity (sometimes I still do), but pretty much gave up on that.

 

I was excited one time back then, and I posted a SS of the highest XP that I'd ever received (at that point) in a game. I was very excited and eager to share it with my peers. Let me tell you, the first few replies were nothing but negative. It wasn't until I posted something about why everyone couldn't be happy for a fellow player that reached a milestone in the game that replies changed. Overall, it's just a very negative board.

 

Most of the time I feel political and religious discussion would be easier..

[Rion12]

 

It's either that, and/or we just have a bunch of D**Ks within the community that enjoy complaining more than actually playing the game. 

 

 

My time browsing the Overwatch forum says it's more likely to be this one. 

 

Pretty much any game, really. There'd be too many conspiracy theories surrounding basically every single game developer if it were the first.

[MagisterAurelius]

 Pretty much any game, really

 

Comes down to the nature of what the Internet has created really.  The community is slowly convincing me to play PVE if I play at all.  It seems like a mass migration to PVE would be a nice rebuke to the toxic forumites.

[yUPPatriots]

Comes down to the nature of what the Internet has created really.  The community is slowly convincing me to play PVE if I play at all.  It seems like a mass migration to PVE would be a nice rebuke to the toxic forumites.

 

I could have saved you and many others the aggravation a year ago.

 

Ask yourself this: Have I saved a bot today?

 

 

 

 

[Royeaux]

[insert ship type] is clearly the whiniest and most annoying set of players. Have you ever noticed that with every single update [insert ship type] players are ALWAYS screaming about how it's "nerfing [insert ship type] into oblivion"? I mean, jeez. It's barely a change and they just need to git gud, deal with it, and realize that they have it better than everyone else.

 

I mean, I've been maining [insert ship type] all this time, and I've had to endure nothing but nerfs while these whiny [edited]s just get total easy-mode. Where's the buffs for [insert ship type]? WG needs to stop listening to these whiners and ba[insert ship designation]ies and realize what's best for the game. 

 

 

-satire over-

 

Now, in all seriousness, this is something I personally feel to be a fairly notable problem around here. Whenever any kind of gameplay change happens (or is announced), complaints happen. But, I get it. Complaints are inevitable, especially if it seems like a nerf to one's favorite ship type. No one really likes to have to readjust the way they play or feel like they're going to be forced to contribute less at the whims of the developers.

 

But, really, is generalizing groups of players into a convenient straw-man going to really do anything? As much fun as it is to lump all DD players into the "wanting easy zero-risk kills" mold, or making BB players out to be "FotM crybabies," what does it accomplish? If anything, it probably just makes actual rational discussion that might actually be considered by the developers more difficult (because, as cynical as I am about it, I have at least SOME faith that WG actually does look at some of the more intelligent discussion that comes out of here).

 

Now, obviously, people still try to discuss things rationally. But, it just seems like so many good ideas and arguments go unheeded and buried because the threads discussing such changes tend to be more dominated by angry shouting matches where people are more interested in making sure that the other person is aware of how much they suck, as opposed to how their argument might be more full of holes than a block of cartoonish Swiss cheese.

 

And another thing. Why is it that if someone argues against a nerf (or for a buff) for something, it seems to immediately makes them a "main" for that particular ship type, and therefore subject to the straw-manning and generalization that is so heavily used around here? 

 

This is just something to think about. How can we get a good discussion of balance if it sometimes seems like we're more interested in making each other look like idiots than actually addressing the problems and their implications?

 

-Gets off soapbox and throws it into harbor-

 

/sarcasm Of course you'd say that, your a Battleship Main!  Can't you realize how good you have it?  Git Gud already!  60WR?  I've never seen numbers so low!  How you can show your face in the forums like that, who appointed you Chancellor of your own thread??

[Misniso]

I can totally understand the annoyance with an excessively whiny category of players. If I said I'd not felt annoyance at the complaints of "other ship type" captains, I'd be lying. But, the issue I personally find around here is that people allow that desire for the "poetic justice" to cloud judgement and attempt to derail actually good arguments with screams of a change being "good" because it's some kind of "deserved comeuppance" (and yes, I think the blanket IJN torpedo nerf falls under this...I do very much believe BB players cheering it on so vivaciously was folly)

 

It's not just poetic justice.  We bring up arguments supporting the change.  But many are more focused on saying nay than considering the positive points of the change.

Off the top of my head:

- Crossing the T becomes risky but viable.  

If you're being chased, you can bring all guns to bear instead of that rear gun with only 3 barrels.  Instead of praying for a fire to start, you can actually use AP and force them to turn away.

 

- Cruisers can survive longer because battleships can't just ignore other battleships now.  Or are you guys just using lip service when saying that cruisers are in a tough spot?  How many games have I seen where it's just the BB's left?  

In addition, cruisers can actually take over a role that has long been considered stupid.  If the BB's hang back because they're scared to get closer, Cruisers get an area where they can push in and hunt destroyers.

 

- Less complaints about being unable to dodge torps.  Because if you're not pushing, you're running away.  And torps are fricken annoying to land on a target on the retreat.

 

- Too many BB's per match already.  5 to a side? 9 to a side?  It becomes a game of which side has more BB scrubs that show a broadside.  Because, failing that, everyone goes bow-on and, in the absence of tactics, you guys plink each other to death.  Despite claims to the contrary, it's not a destroyer's dream situation because everyone seems to know how to dodge torps.

 

- It's not the end of the world.  T6 and T7 battleships get overmatched already, and yet they still perform decently.

 

- All of the high-tier battleships are going to be affected so your favorite BB is not going to be the only one suffering from this change.

 

[Bballmangreg]

[insert ship type] is clearly the whiniest and most annoying set of players. Have you ever noticed that with every single update [insert ship type] players are ALWAYS screaming about how it's "nerfing [insert ship type] into oblivion"? I mean, jeez. It's barely a change and they just need to git gud, deal with it, and realize that they have it better than everyone else.

 

I mean, I've been maining [insert ship type] all this time, and I've had to endure nothing but nerfs while these whiny [edited]s just get total easy-mode. Where's the buffs for [insert ship type]? WG needs to stop listening to these whiners and ba[insert ship designation]ies and realize what's best for the game. 

 

 

-satire over-

 

Now, in all seriousness, this is something I personally feel to be a fairly notable problem around here. Whenever any kind of gameplay change happens (or is announced), complaints happen. But, I get it. Complaints are inevitable, especially if it seems like a nerf to one's favorite ship type. No one really likes to have to readjust the way they play or feel like they're going to be forced to contribute less at the whims of the developers.

 

But, really, is generalizing groups of players into a convenient straw-man going to really do anything? As much fun as it is to lump all DD players into the "wanting easy zero-risk kills" mold, or making BB players out to be "FotM crybabies," what does it accomplish? If anything, it probably just makes actual rational discussion that might actually be considered by the developers more difficult (because, as cynical as I am about it, I have at least SOME faith that WG actually does look at some of the more intelligent discussion that comes out of here).

 

Now, obviously, people still try to discuss things rationally. But, it just seems like so many good ideas and arguments go unheeded and buried because the threads discussing such changes tend to be more dominated by angry shouting matches where people are more interested in making sure that the other person is aware of how much they suck, as opposed to how their argument might be more full of holes than a block of cartoonish Swiss cheese.

 

And another thing. Why is it that if someone argues against a nerf (or for a buff) for something, it seems to immediately makes them a "main" for that particular ship type, and therefore subject to the straw-manning and generalization that is so heavily used around here? 

 

This is just something to think about. How can we get a good discussion of balance if it sometimes seems like we're more interested in making each other look like idiots than actually addressing the problems and their implications?

 

-Gets off soapbox and throws it into harbor-

 

I do not think the bow nerf is a good idea as i have started a thread about it already, but i don't think nerfs to DDs like increased radar load time was necessary either. You actually have some valid points in this post which is actually surprising to see on the forum no offense, i one up'd your post cause i think you earned it. Your right with the being called a "main" and getting this outlandish things said to you i am very vocal about how BBs are my favorite and most played class but i also have 3 entire cruiser lines and 2 DD lines. So i know the ins and outs of them all. I'm not bias towards one group.

[Royeaux]

 

- Too many BB's per match already.  5 to a side? 9 to a side?  It becomes a game of which side has more BB scrubs that show a broadside.  Because, failing that, everyone goes bow-on and, in the absence of tactics, you guys plink each other to death.  Despite claims to the contrary, it's not a destroyer's dream situation because everyone seems to know how to dodge torps.

- It's not the end of the world.  T6 and T7 battleships get overmatched already, and yet they still perform decently.

- All of the high-tier battleships are going to be affected so your favorite BB is not going to be the only one suffering from this change.

 

 

I know this has probably been beaten to death already, but it's just not the same at higher tiers.  Try pushing a cap, so many torps will be thrown at you, dodging become literally impossible.  I could have lasted longer if I gave the caps a wide berth, which is the chief problem with higher tier matches.  At least in my Fuso or Dunkerque, I don't fear deletion when going near a cap, DDs can't put that many torps in the water and they can't launch them from the other side of the map, and the Battleships are WAY more durable in the lower tiers.

 

[Misniso]

 

I know this has probably been beaten to death already, but it's just not the same at higher tiers.  Try pushing a cap, so many torps will be thrown at you, dodging become literally impossible.  I could have lasted longer if I gave the caps a wide berth, which is the chief problem with higher tier matches.  At least in my Fuso or Dunkerque, I don't fear deletion when going near a cap, DDs can't put that many torps in the water and they can't launch them from the other side of the map, and the Battleships are WAY more durable in the lower tiers.

 

 

 

What does this have to do with bow-on engagement, big guns, and overmatch mechanics? 

 

If you're bringing torps up, you should join the anti-torpedo crowd.  Because, last I checked, the affected BB's are not going to get torps.  So this change isn't going to increase the number of torps in the water.

 

If you see all of those torps, it means someone isn't screening the DD's properly.  And guess what, the cruisers can't.  They'll evaporate if they try.  And destroyers these days are often finding that pushing a cap is just as suicidal.  Why?  Their team is hanging back.