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Lt_Airi

Saipan Help

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Alright so I've been seeing a lot more Saipan's lately since Wargaming made it to where you can purchase her again and I am stuck at a tier seven carrier, I love carrier gameplay and all, But Saipan is really annoying me, No matter what loadout I run in my Hiryu, No matter what I do this thing always destroys all of my planes with minimal damage done to the enemy fleet, It's starting to make me very mad I've tried different ways of dealing with this ship in the game but nothing works, Please help? Is there anything I can do to counter this ship? Because to me right now it seems like Wargaming has broke the tier seven carriers. Thanks for taking the time to read this, I just want to know what I should do. I can handle Ranger's just fine and dispite what other people have said I have always thought the carriers were pretty well balanced, I no longer think that with the introduction of Saipan, I don't want to just sell my Hiryu and forget about carriers, but I don't want to buy doubloons and free XP past it either, What should I do?

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I hate to say this, but all you can really do is soldier on until you get to the Shokaku and can get back into the pattern of IJN CV blatent superiority.

 

Saipan is the only CV in the game that gets to treat IJN CVs the way they treat everything else. Is it balanced? Not in the least. However, as someone who plays both sides of the CV coin (when I play CVs at all) it's pretty satisfying to actually have a single USN CV that can really be effective in the face of the opposition.

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I don't want to just sell my Hiryu and forget about carriers, but I don't want to buy doubloons and free XP past it either, What should I do?

 

 

the third option is to just put up with it and grind it out then.

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It is not much you can do, you have to fight with T7 planes against T9 planes, it is like you are in a Colorado and have to fight a Iowa one on one.

Best thing to do is try to use friendly ship, try to get the fight close to them so their AA help you.

Or sacrifice one squad, let it be attacked and right after you come in with another set of fighters and do the Alt attack.

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My suggestion for dealing with Saipan:

 

1.  Create a new CV captain for Hiryu only (or Ranger only).

2.  Equip Air Superiority setup.

3.  Unlock captain Tier 3 skill Dogfight Expert (Saipan's planes are tier 9)

4.  Install all upgrades that buff fighter strength/durability

5.  ???

6.  Profit

Edited by Lord_Zath
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get fighter loadout & keep planes over main fleet. even if its around 5km out

then split up strike groups.

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Just like Rangers are a bit hard to fight with a Saipan, Hiryu's have a bit of trouble with the Saipan.  If neither have a 15 point captain, 1v1 Saipan fighters tend to come out on top of Hiryu fighters.

 

Let's break the Saipan up into its two roles and deal with them accordingly:

 

Strike

lead the fighters over your surface ships.  Enlist Atlantas and Scharnhorsts to assist you.  To get an edge, you need to bring their squadrons down to 2 fighters.  Then their squadron will not be capable of knocking your squadrons down so you can keep them locked until ammo runs out.

 

In the meantime, try to snipe it.  They can try to snipe you, but their torps have a tendency not to cause out-of-control floods.  The only real way to take you out in a single strike is to hit with all 6 torps.  I hope you've played a CV long enough to know how to avoid at least some of the torps.  You, on the other hand, have torps for the initial strike and fires to keep them burning afterwards.

 

Air Superiority

- lead the fighters over your surface ships.  Enlist Atlanta's and Scharnhorst's to assist you.  Isn't this advice the same as strike?  Not quite.  In the above case you can jump in once a fighter is gone from each squad.  In this case, you need the friendly AA to knock an entire squadron out of the sky or bring 2 squadrons down to 1 fighter each.  If possible, double team the squadrons that are alone and run away ASAP if you see multiple squadrons inbound.

 

As for the plan?  If possible, try to hover a plane near the CV and let your team deal with it.  The Saipan has rather bad concealment.  And a common strategy for this carrier is to stay as close to the front lines as possible to maximize the effectiveness of the fast planes.  So if you can light it up, your team should start delivering punishment to it.  If possible, hover your plane outside of the Saipan's spotting range...which is like 10 km or so?  You know, like when the detection alert icon lights up but you don't see any planes?  This will force the Saipan to bring planes back to look for your spotter.

 

Saipan detectability by sea: 11.9km

Saipan detectability by air: 12.7km

 

In addition, if you are super lucky or good enough to sneak a fighter squadron past its fighter screen and within range of the DB's, strafe that DB squadron.  That DB squadron flies fast and hurts a lot.  But on the upside, there's only enough dive bombers on board the Saipan for 2 full squadrons.  So if you manage to strafe it twice, the Saipan will be unable to scramble a complete DB squadron afterwards.

Edited by Misniso
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As for the plan?  If possible, try to hover a plane near the CV and let your team deal with it.  The Saipan has rather bad concealment.  And a common strategy for this carrier is to stay as close to the front lines as possible.  So if you can light it up, your team should start delivering punishment to it.

 

If you do this, keep in mind that the Saipan AA is really strong, but short ranged. She has no long range dual purpose AA mounts at all, and her 40mm mounts are her longest range AA. They can likely only reach out to 3.5km, so you can get pretty close without being engaged by the Saipan's AA.

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I hate to say this, but all you can really do is soldier on until you get to the Shokaku and can get back into the pattern of IJN CV blatent superiority.

 

Saipan is the only CV in the game that gets to treat IJN CVs the way they treat everything else. Is it balanced? Not in the least. However, as someone who plays both sides of the CV coin (when I play CVs at all) it's pretty satisfying to actually have a single USN CV that can really be effective in the face of the opposition.

 

Thank you! I will try to do that

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Just like Rangers are a bit hard to fight with a Saipan, Hiryu's have a bit of trouble with the Saipan.  If neither have a 15 point captain, 1v1 Saipan fighters tend to come out on top of Hiryu fighters.

 

Let's break the Saipan up into its two roles and deal with them accordingly:

 

Strike

lead the fighters over your surface ships.  Enlist Atlantas and Scharnhorsts to assist you.  To get an edge, you need to bring their squadrons down to 2 fighters.  Then their squadron will not be capable of knocking your squadrons down so you can keep them locked until ammo runs out.

 

In the meantime, try to snipe it.  They can try to snipe you, but their torps have a tendency not to cause out of control floods.  You, on the other hand, have torps for the initial strike and fires to keep them burning afterwards.

 

Air Superiority

- lead the fighters over your surface ships.  Enlist Atlanta's and Scharnhorst's to assist you.  Isn't this advice the same as strike?  Not quite.  In the above case you can jump in once a fighter is gone from each squad.  In this case, you need the friendly AA to knock an entire squadron out of the sky or bring 2 squadrons down to 1 fighter each.

 

As for the plan?  If possible, try to hover a plane near the CV and let your team deal with it.  The Saipan has rather bad concealment.  And a common strategy for this carrier is to stay as close to the front lines as possible to maximize the effectiveness of the fast planes.  So if you can light it up, your team should start delivering punishment to it.  If possible, hover your plane outside of the Saipan's spotting range...which is like 10 km or so?  You know, like when the detection alert icon lights up but you don't see any planes?  This will force the Saipan to bring planes back to look for your spotter.

 

Saipan detectability by sea: 11.9km

Saipan detectability by air: 12.7km

 

Thank you for the response! It's very helpful

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It is not much you can do, you have to fight with T7 planes against T9 planes, it is like you are in a Colorado and have to fight a Iowa one on one.

Best thing to do is try to use friendly ship, try to get the fight close to them so their AA help you.

Or sacrifice one squad, let it be attacked and right after you come in with another set of fighters and do the Alt attack.

 

Alright thank you! The response is appreciated

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if you are playing against [edited]Saipan captain like myself, you can lure his fighters over friendly ships with strong AA and then engage with your fighters so they won't run away. Saipan doesn't have too many planes so you will need to repeat it 3-4 times and your counterpart will be out of fighters at about mid-match. 

 

Just recently, enemy Hiryu got me completely disabled this way. Though he was really good and with 15 pts captain and I plain suck in CVs

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Sorry for being sarcastic in my first message man. I spend quite a lot of time on the forum, and there are topics that come up a lot. This actually isn't one that comes up too often, but every now and again it does. Frequent forumites tend to know which camps people fall into - BB mains, DD mains, generalists, favor IJN, favor USN, favor German, you get the idea. I'm fairly well known as a BB main who favors the USN (strangley, BBs are my 2nd least played ship class). So naturally, when carriers and cruisers are on the table, I spend a lot of time arguing with the same people who main IJN, and the argument often starts with an IJN Main saying something like how the IJN carriers in general need to be buffed, because in a 1v1 their fighters lose. Then someone else will come in and say something like, "And Saipan in particular is so OP I refuse to play Hiryu until Saipan is removed from the game."

 

Well... that sort of thing gets irritating considering that in every tier above 4, the Saipan is literally the only CV that holds a candle to every single other IJN CV in the game, almost regardless of what FCM that CV uses too (which is particularly irritating since USN CVs have to get to t10 before they get a single FCM that can actually be more than all or nothing). I have a really hard time respecting the opinions of people who say they are out for balance, when they complain about having a Striaght Flush in their hand, but still losing to a random Royal Flush, instead of typically rolling over the normal Full House hand they are used to facing.

 

The thing to do against the Saipan is this - overcome, adapt, and improvise. Try to bait off their fighters, or pull them over friendlies. Isolate 1 fighter group and gang up on it or tie it down. Hiryu can afford to use up it's fighters more than Saipan can. Believe it or not, in a 1v1 the Hiryu planes do better than people realize. They will still lose, but it'll be a victory that costs the Saipan enough fighters that they won't want to do it much more. Also keep this in mind. The Saipan depends almost entirely on the player, even more so than any other carrier I've ever played. A great CV driver in the Saipan is off the charts powerful. Someone like me in the Saipan (a CV players who knows what they're doing but doens't always do it the best way) is dangerous. A bad CV player in the Saipan just farm. I honestly don't do that well in the Saipan against a well played Hiryu, but I know there are guys out there would could probably beat my Lexington with the Saip, because it scales so much based on how good the player is. Lastly, like I said originally, take heart, for when you reach Skokaku, and get fully upgraded, it's back to down right superiority, and since Shokaku can use Defensive Fire, so you should be pretty much snipe proof, which is really the only way USN CVs can win against an IJN CV belove t8, and that's really only possible if the IJN CV captain is a muppet.

Edited by Captain_Dorja
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From my personal experience, I've found that the Saipan's AS abilities are an absolute hard counter to everything else it sees, especially since a lot of them have 15-point captains. Your ship is woefully unequipped to deal with a standard Saipan, let alone with with a 15 point captain so my advice is first off you have to outplay the hell out of him and second, abuse all the help you are able to get. Unless you are able to eliminate his fighters, try to avoid going after him since he can normally destroy your fighters and then come back in time to save his ship if he isn't on the front lines. This is what skilled Saipan players do since their planes have speed and therefore they do not need to be close to strike as quickly as other CVs.

If you do eliminate his planes with help from friendly AA, however, there is a small opportunity where the Saipan will not be able to get all his fighter squads ready and scrambled where you can strike him. Make it count.

Also, try to gauge him. If he is not a very good player, snipe him, otherwise do not leave friendly AA cover. You will regret it.

 

Good luck.

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Sorry for being sarcastic in my first message man. I spend quite a lot of time on the forum, and there are topics that come up a lot. This actually isn't one that comes up too often, but every now and again it does. Frequent forumites tend to know which camps people fall into - BB mains, DD mains, generalists, favor IJN, favor USN, favor German, you get the idea. I'm fairly well known as a BB main who favors the USN (strangley, BBs are my 2nd least played ship class). So naturally, when carriers and cruisers are on the table, I spend a lot of time arguing with the same people who main IJN, and the argument often starts with an IJN Main saying something like how the IJN carriers in general need to be buffed, because in a 1v1 their fighters lose. Then someone else will come in and say something like, "And Saipan in particular is so OP I refuse to play Hiryu until Saipan is removed from the game."

 

Well... that sort of thing gets irritating considering that in every tier above 4, the Saipan is literally the only CV that holds a candle to every single other IJN CV in the game, almost regardless of what FCM that CV uses too (which is particularly irritating since USN CVs have to get to t10 before they get a single FCM that can actually be more than all or nothing). I have a really hard time respecting the opinions of people who say they are out for balance, when they complain about having a Striaght Flush in their hand, but still losing to a random Royal Flush, instead of typically rolling over the normal Full House hand they are used to facing.

 

The thing to do against the Saipan is this - overcome, adapt, and improvise. Try to bait off their fighters, or pull them over friendlies. Isolate 1 fighter group and gang up on it or tie it down. Hiryu can afford to use up it's fighters more than Saipan can. Believe it or not, in a 1v1 the Hiryu planes do better than people realize. They will still lose, but it'll be a victory that costs the Saipan enough fighters that they won't want to do it much more. Also keep this in mind. The Saipan depends almost entirely on the player, even more so than any other carrier I've ever played. A great CV driver in the Saipan is off the charts powerful. Someone like me in the Saipan (a CV players who knows what they're doing but doens't always do it the best way) is dangerous. A bad CV player in the Saipan just farm. I honestly don't do that well in the Saipan against a well played Hiryu, but I know there are guys out there would could probably beat my Lexington with the Saip, because it scales so much based on how good the player is. Lastly, like I said originally, take heart, for when you reach Skokaku, and get fully upgraded, it's back to down right superiority, and since Shokaku can use Defensive Fire, so you should be pretty much snipe proof, which is really the only way USN CVs can win against an IJN CV belove t8, and that's really only possible if the IJN CV captain is a muppet.

 

Thanks for the response, I didn't mean to come off as whiney, And do people really think that IJN CV's need a buff? If anything USA needs a buff with having so few loadout options, but anyways the advice is appreciated once again sorry if I came off sounding like a whiney baby, I just didn't know what else to do against Saipan, I am not asking to win dogfights just to tie her down long enough for my bombers to be able to do something. I am going to grind through to the Shokaku and with the help of everyone here on the forums I am confident I can do something against Saipan :) Thanks again for the help

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From my personal experience, I've found that the Saipan's AS abilities are an absolute hard counter to everything else it sees, especially since a lot of them have 15-point captains. Your ship is woefully unequipped to deal with a standard Saipan, let alone with with a 15 point captain so my advice is first off you have to outplay the hell out of him and second, abuse all the help you are able to get. Unless you are able to eliminate his fighters, try to avoid going after him since he can normally destroy your fighters and then come back in time to save his ship if he isn't on the front lines. This is what skilled Saipan players do since their planes have speed and therefore they do not need to be close to strike as quickly as other CVs.

If you do eliminate his planes with help from friendly AA, however, there is a small opportunity where the Saipan will not be able to get all his fighter squads ready and scrambled where you can strike him. Make it count.

Also, try to gauge him. If he is not a very good player, snipe him, otherwise do not leave friendly AA cover. You will regret it.

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you! I'll try this out, I also found out about a modification which add's +20 percent durability to my fighter's which will help a lot to tie Saipan's fighters down :)

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One of the things youre going to need to learn to do is kite and win the mind game with the enemy. Make him think youre going somewhere and go elsewhere. Some CV players are really good at shutting down people and you just have to write it off as a bad match. Never take the same route twice with your planes and spread the love around the enemy. Your targets of opportunity are now defined by where the saipan isnt. But you need to consider Saipan flight speeds so you need to either just go for the drop or not show your planes. Try to keep the saipan in the dark as much as possible.

 

If you were to play USN CVs strike you would have to deal with this all the time. A fighter Essex or even a stock essex can pretty heavily shut a taiho out of the match. Especially if the surface ships are smart and stay in each others AA fields.

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The saipan is a hard beast to beat especially since the ammo buff. The saipan is likely to have air supremacy (4 fighters per squad) so your squads might end up getting shredded by enemy fighters that are straight up stronger and faster than you. It doesn't help that your TBs are also especially fragile and slow at this tier. You can choose to avoid the saipan or try to tackle him straight on

 

Avoid him:

Remember that your planes have a spotting range, his fighters can't be everywhere so you can always wait a bit the enemy team spread a bit and send your TBs where he isin't. I also suggest avoiding to attack his fighters unless you can get a straffe on 2-3 squad at the same time or enlist the help of a T8+ ship or a AA monster. If he is TB loadout, you can try to intercept his bombers when he come for the attack run on AA ships. You might kill his TBs or mess their spread and then you will have friendly AA to help dispatch the fighters that engaged yours to let the Tbs throught. If he is fighter loadout, have your fighters roam aggressively around his DB while always having a retreat path to force his fighter back to protect it while you can strike more freely. Don't forget that with the fighter loadout, the saipan actually got less total fighters than the strike loadout so he have very little reserves.

 

Tackle him straight on: To do this, I recommend fighter loadout, dogfighting expert and air supremacy. The objective of this is to take air superiority away from him. The saipan stil have one weakness that isin't fixed at this date and it's the small amount of fighters of the fighter loadout. With your own fighter loadout, you got vastly larger reserves so you can eventually exhaust him provided you trade 1:1 or a bit worse. You can then easily take his DB out with straffe. Agains't his strike loadout, you got more fighters in the air as well as more reserves still. The main problem in this case would be dispatching his fighters while preventing him from outdamaging you.

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Thanks for the response, I didn't mean to come off as whiney, And do people really think that IJN CV's need a buff? If anything USA needs a buff with having so few loadout options, but anyways the advice is appreciated once again sorry if I came off sounding like a whiney baby, I just didn't know what else to do against Saipan, I am not asking to win dogfights just to tie her down long enough for my bombers to be able to do something. I am going to grind through to the Shokaku and with the help of everyone here on the forums I am confident I can do something against Saipan :) Thanks again for the help

 

Nah man I didn't think you were doing that. I just wanted you to know I wans't being 100% troll. That was not a specific example, but people do tend to think whatever their baby is should be best.

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Thanks for the response, I didn't mean to come off as whiney, And do people really think that IJN CV's need a buff? If anything USA needs a buff with having so few loadout options, but anyways the advice is appreciated once again sorry if I came off sounding like a whiney baby, I just didn't know what else to do against Saipan, I am not asking to win dogfights just to tie her down long enough for my bombers to be able to do something. I am going to grind through to the Shokaku and with the help of everyone here on the forums I am confident I can do something against Saipan :) Thanks again for the help

 

There are people that really think IJN CVs need help.  There are people honestly think something like Zuiho needs a buff against Bogue and that Bogue is OP.

 

xS7D9vn.jpg

 

Oh, hell, this will tell you better the state between IJN & USN CVs.  This is by WinRate%.  Notice the trend.  The only USN CV that dares defy that supremacy is Saipan.

 

m8VB0cF.jpg

 

This is by Average Damage.  Notice, tier by tier, the IJN CV is superior.  The only USN CV that dares challenge that supremacy is again... Saipan.

 

oIya8Ze.jpg

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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if you are playing against [edited]Saipan captain like myself, you can lure his fighters over friendly ships with strong AA and then engage with your fighters so they won't run away. Saipan doesn't have too many planes so you will need to repeat it 3-4 times and your counterpart will be out of fighters at about mid-match. 

 

Just recently, enemy Hiryu got me completely disabled this way. Though he was really good and with 15 pts captain and I plain suck in CVs

 

Thanks for the advice, I've tried to do this before but my intent to strike the enemy with bombs and torpedoes always backfires in a match, I hate being the CV that is useless and does nothing you know?

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Nah man I didn't think you were doing that. I just wanted you to know I wans't being 100% troll. That was not a specific example, but people do tend to think whatever their baby is should be best.

 

Oh alrighty, Thanks for the advice it's greatly appreciated, Everyone here on the forum's have been so helpful, I was honestly expecting stupid responses like "git gud" or "stop playing you suck" but people have actually given me some pretty nice ideas of how to handle Saipan's

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