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jason199506

Why does WG promote passive gameplay so much?

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so in 0.5.11, radar gets massively buffed, all stealth DDs are susceptible to radar spam, which means instant death in most cases. Destroyers are now forced(well, strongly discouraged) to engage close enough to enemy because of obvious safety reasons.

right after the update, i switch the 15km torp back on my fubuki and never get within 10km of enemy cruisers, and straight out didnt sail my US DDs again.

 

now for 0.5.12 update, bow armour gets nerfed. In my north carolina, I usually full speed to about 10km from enemy and stop bow-on(where my comfort zone is), where i can effectively support friendly DDs and CAs in front of me without exposing my broadside/getting heavily damaged. But sadly now i am almost forced to stay at least 15km away from enemy BBs so that i dont get easily killed.

 

to be honest, i love close range engagement, i love point blank range torps and 2km BB AP browls, i just dont get why WG keeps forcing me to stay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back. whats the fun in 20km sniping? its not your skill that determines what damage you can do to enemies, its RNG. and at this point what fun is there? i might as well go roll a die and celebrate every time i get a one or a six

 

anyways, im looking forward to how WG will "strongly discourage"(translation: force) cruisers to stay max distances from enemy in patch 0.5.13.......

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probably a way for CA to spot pesky DD's for BB's to actually push and not afraid to get torpedoed to death

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Aggressive DDs was never the problem. It was people being afraid of DDs that resulted in passive play.

 

Nerfing BB armor was an attempt to weaken the main predator of the cruiser, thereby making the latter more viable. An odd strategy I'll admit.

 

 

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now for 0.5.12 update, bow armour gets nerfed. In my north carolina, I usually full speed to about 10km from enemy and stop bow-on(where my comfort zone is), where i can effectively support friendly DDs and CAs in front of me without exposing my broadside/getting heavily damaged. But sadly now i am almost forced to stay at least 15km away from enemy BBs so that i dont get easily killed.

 

to be honest, i love close range engagement, i love point blank range torps and 2km BB AP browls, i just dont get why WG keeps forcing me to stay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back. whats the fun in 20km sniping? its not your skill that determines what damage you can do to enemies, its RNG. and at this point what fun is there? i might as well go roll a die and celebrate every time i get a one or a six

 

Isn't that passive gameplay, where you just move forward and stop? 

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I don't play passively and I'm not often killed by passive players except maybe the odd BB that gets critical plunging fire hits on me.

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Isn't that passive gameplay, where you just move forward and stop? 

 

no, i define passive gameplay as turning away from enemy. as long as i am moving in the direction of enemy i dont think that is passive.

 

 

 

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The radar buff was intended as a direct counter to RN cruisers. I had expected them to nurf it back to where it was sine they are reworking them. I guess that would just be too much effort though. 

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no, i define passive gameplay as turning away from enemy. as long as i am moving in the direction of enemy i dont think that is passive.

 

 

 

 

Fair enough.  And I didn't mean any sourness from my comment.  I would rather consider passive play as not throwing your ship's weight of presence against the enemy team.

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Fair enough.  And I didn't mean any sourness from my comment.  I would rather consider passive play as not throwing your ship's weight of presence against the enemy team.

 

here's a simple of how i usually play BBs

if you consider this passive, i would have to say YOLO isnt my style

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Aggressive DDs was never the problem. It was people being afraid of DDs that resulted in passive play.

 

Nerfing BB armor was an attempt to weaken the main predator of the cruiser, thereby making the latter more viable. An odd strategy I'll admit.

 

 

 

An odd strategy indeed.  Its becoming comical the lengths that the devs are going through when all they need to do is balance CVs.  Want BBs to stop camping, give them the threat of being sunk when they are solo.  Want people to push into torp soup served up by invisa DDs, Provide an insentive for CV spotting.  (of wait, they are doing that, +1 WG!)

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Want BBs to stop camping, give them the threat of being sunk when they are solo. 

 

Hence i am afraid to push alone when the whole team camps.

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I wished that WG would allow destroyers to be shielded from radar if they are behind an island where they would be in a theoretical radar shadow, thus concealing the ship from radar pings.

 

I've hidden behind islands waiting in an ambush, then all of a sudden I'm detected by radar forcing me to either dump my torpedoes or run lest I have every enemy ship aiming their guns at me

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The radar buff was intended as a direct counter to RN cruisers. I had expected them to nurf it back to where it was sine they are reworking them. I guess that would just be too much effort though. 

 

Respectfully, the radar buff is here long before the RN cruisers and it is painful for DDs. Especially USN DDs. And how do you explain the long range, long life of Bismarck's hydro?  Because the Tier 8 German BB is afraid of cruisers?  No, radar is worst for DDs. 

 

The OP makes a good point. Put an Atlanta near the middle in an Epicenter battle and watch all of the DDs die. Especially with the magic radar that sees through islands. /broken record off/. Here they produce a new battle form that's supposed to push everyone to be aggressive, but cruisers with radar can light up every enemy DD doing what the DDs are supposed to be doing - fighting for the center. 

 

Blyskawica with Concealment Expert is detectable after firing at 10.4 km.  With AFT she has a 14.4 km range, and with Soviet-like guns she can use that range. Looking better and better with more radar ships out there. 

 

Before Atlanta got radar, the first thing I'd do was look at opposing DDs. Now the first thing I do is figure out which cruisers have radar, and I just stay away from them if at all possible. 

Edited by Landing_Skipper

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no, i define passive gameplay as turning away from enemy. as long as i am moving in the direction of enemy i dont think that is passive.

 

Bow-on campfests are pretty damn passive. 

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Agreed on radar and hydro (sonar) be limited to line of sight and not go though islands. That's silly.

If they want CL/CA to have radar, at least make them wary of sailing near island corners as it used to be. Now they know you are behind it. DDs are getting nerfed just from the buffs to cruisers alone.

 

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I agree with you. All ship classes have advantages and disadvantages. Soften BB is not the solution. Hopefully WoW will CANCELL the insane thought of screwing up BB. The more tinkering of the ships types results in 1 major bland game. Could this result in the DETONATION of WoW? Time will tell.

Remember Golden Rule: Man with the Gold makes the rules.

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Problem with the whole gameplay isn't really the players, but the fear that is put into them, as a BB player such as myself, I find torpedoes a thing to fear. Having a slow ship, with slow reload, and slow repair times, makes it very difficult to find a viable reason to move up. Push too far, and your BB is going to be the first thing to go as you are in everyone's cross hairs, yet too far back, you are not supporting the team.

 

I've also played a fair share with DD's and Cruisers. The advantages of both these ships are that they are small, or medium size, with high maneuverability. The ability to stop, or even go in a few seconds is something to consider, despite the lack or armor or various other weaknesses. 

 

BB's are not meant for 'brawling' in my opinion, and my reasoning behind that is... Yeah you have all this fire power, but your shells take 30 seconds to reload on average, you turn like a beached whale, and your secondaries are inaccurate as hell. Armor only helps if you are facing the enemy, not broadsiding, and torpedoes in a brawl is just ASKING for being knocked out of the match early. That is why BB's hang in the back, or in a battle-group. These factors also don't include the risk of bombers, and torpedo planes. 

 

In all honesty it not only comes down to the indivisual, but the team, and the environment that the BB's are in, yeah I know, I sound like a BB buff right now, but I'm just saying my two cents here, in saying why people are so 'passive', and avoiding close range combat. Team is required, as BB's are mostly there for fire support on a flank, meant to take down a threat that may prove to be a problem for the rest of the team. As for environment, things like islands, and choke points, force BB's to stay clear, as they are good hiding spots for DD's and Cruisers, who want to shotgun oncoming ships.

 

I too would like to see a more aggressive stance in matches, but being a BB player mostly, I find that the lack of survivability makes it hard to do, as repair times, torpedo threats, and long reload times, make being an aggressive BB, discouraging... I don't have any ideas, as BB's are still quite powerful, and giving them any buffs would only result in them being too OP.

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Respectfully, the radar buff is here long before the RN cruisers and it is painful for DDs. Especially USN DDs. And how do you explain the long range, long life of Bismarck's hydro?  Because the Tier 8 German BB is afraid of cruisers?  No, radar is worst for DDs. 

 

The OP makes a good point. Put an Atlanta near the middle in an Epicenter battle and watch all of the DDs die. Especially with the magic radar that sees through islands. /broken record off/. Here they produce a new battle form that's supposed to push everyone to be aggressive, but cruisers with radar can light up every enemy DD doing what the DDs are supposed to be doing - fighting for the center. 

 

Blyskawica with Concealment Expert is detectable after firing at 10.4 km.  With AFT she has a 14.4 km range, and with Soviet-like guns she can use that range. Looking better and better with more radar ships out there. 

 

Before Atlanta got radar, the first thing I'd do was look at opposing DDs. Now the first thing I do is figure out which cruisers have radar, and I just stay away from them if at all possible. 

 

They introduced the radar buf the patch before RN Cl's were supposed to come out but then they got delayed.

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Apprently WG wants to be like CS:GO where anyone can point and click another guy for massive damage at any range.

 

.......except they haven't yet implemented flashbangs. So you get to run into half the enemy team and get focused right away, yeah!

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Apprently WG wants to be like CS:GO where anyone can point and click another guy for massive damage at any range.

 

.......except they haven't yet implemented flashbangs. So you get to run into half the enemy team and get focused right away, yeah!

 

That or TF2, with the spy cloak and dagger trick :/ 

 

WG and their Romulan cloak...

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Aggressive DDs was never the problem. It was people being afraid of DDs that resulted in passive play.

 

Nerfing BB armor was an attempt to weaken the main predator of the cruiser, thereby making the latter more viable. An odd strategy I'll admit.

 

DDs weren't the problem, period.

 

The problem was focused fire from 4+ enemy ships burning/penning you to the waterline.

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so in 0.5.11, radar gets massively buffed, all stealth DDs are susceptible to radar spam, which means instant death in most cases. Destroyers are now forced(well, strongly discouraged) to engage close enough to enemy because of obvious safety reasons.

right after the update, i switch the 15km torp back on my fubuki and never get within 10km of enemy cruisers, and straight out didnt sail my US DDs again.

 

now for 0.5.12 update, bow armour gets nerfed. In my north carolina, I usually full speed to about 10km from enemy and stop bow-on(where my comfort zone is), where i can effectively support friendly DDs and CAs in front of me without exposing my broadside/getting heavily damaged. But sadly now i am almost forced to stay at least 15km away from enemy BBs so that i dont get easily killed.

 

to be honest, i love close range engagement, i love point blank range torps and 2km BB AP browls, i just dont get why WG keeps forcing me to stay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back. whats the fun in 20km sniping? its not your skill that determines what damage you can do to enemies, its RNG. and at this point what fun is there? i might as well go roll a die and celebrate every time i get a one or a six

 

anyways, im looking forward to how WG will "strongly discourage"(translation: force) cruisers to stay max distances from enemy in patch 0.5.13.......

 

Because they have identified one of the main causes for passive gameplay was BBs tendency to camp at the back edges of the map  Then they also identified that one of the big reasons BBs camp is due to fear of getting torpedoed by DDs.  Then they said, "Well we don't want BBs to camp so we have to make it so BBs aren't afraid of getting torpedoed."  I mean it is pretty simple if you think about it and the entire reason for it is actually to promote aLESS passive gameplay.   It is  the exact opposite of what your claiming.  

Edited by Midnitewolf

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I don't like the passive hide in back and snipe meta, but I think WG has lost their marbles if they think they can force players into playing more aggressively.

Wake up WG, you can't go for a diverse, casual population, then think you can whip them into shape and make them play the way you envision the game should be played.

Players make the game what they want, if you really seriously think you can force this diverse crowd into a single mold in this manner, you may be in for a rude awakening.....

 

 

Edited by awiggin

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Problem with the whole gameplay isn't really the players, but the fear that is put into them, as a BB player such as myself, I find torpedoes a thing to fear. Having a slow ship, with slow reload, and slow repair times, makes it very difficult to find a viable reason to move up. Push too far, and your BB is going to be the first thing to go as you are in everyone's cross hairs, yet too far back, you are not supporting the team.

 

I've also played a fair share with DD's and Cruisers. The advantages of both these ships are that they are small, or medium size, with high maneuverability. The ability to stop, or even go in a few seconds is something to consider, despite the lack or armor or various other weaknesses. 

 

BB's are not meant for 'brawling' in my opinion, and my reasoning behind that is... Yeah you have all this fire power, but your shells take 30 seconds to reload on average, you turn like a beached whale, and your secondaries are inaccurate as hell. Armor only helps if you are facing the enemy, not broadsiding, and torpedoes in a brawl is just ASKING for being knocked out of the match early. That is why BB's hang in the back, or in a battle-group. These factors also don't include the risk of bombers, and torpedo planes. 

 

In all honesty it not only comes down to the indivisual, but the team, and the environment that the BB's are in, yeah I know, I sound like a BB buff right now, but I'm just saying my two cents here, in saying why people are so 'passive', and avoiding close range combat. Team is required, as BB's are mostly there for fire support on a flank, meant to take down a threat that may prove to be a problem for the rest of the team. As for environment, things like islands, and choke points, force BB's to stay clear, as they are good hiding spots for DD's and Cruisers, who want to shotgun oncoming ships.

 

I too would like to see a more aggressive stance in matches, but being a BB player mostly, I find that the lack of survivability makes it hard to do, as repair times, torpedo threats, and long reload times, make being an aggressive BB, discouraging... I don't have any ideas, as BB's are still quite powerful, and giving them any buffs would only result in them being too OP.

 

meh,  if you are afraid of DD,  you are either sniping all match until your DDs die or you lack situation awareness or teamwork.    One aspect I love about genisenau is its speed.  I can easily support DDs and CA by being in the middle and tanking/adding fire support.    just by being there,  it allow our CA/DD to do their job and clear the way.      dictating  range and intensity of engagement is very important and  having speed can help.    

 

if you play t6-7, you already can be lolpenned through nose anyway.     so,  same can happen in upper tier, 

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