Nerfing premiums

[_Caliph_]

 

Since it appears altering ships people have paid for is on the table what excuse is there not to nerf the Gremy and the Imperator to playable levels and allowing others to purchase them? Since they are OP supposedly.

 

Or is the game to keep them unnerfed and exclusive because Russian.

 

If you sense agitation in my tone it's because I don't like bait and switches. If I pay for something I expect it to remain as so, comparative in power at the level it was sold as. If I have to bite the bullet for the sake of the game then all owners of all ships should have too.

[Aetreus]

I think it comes down to that the changes to premium battleships and destroyers are global, while nerfing Gremy or Imperator would be targeted to those ships. Premium ships were all also affected by the armor normalization changes. There's probably a subtle legal argument behind it- functionally if WG has changed everyone equally, then they could have implemented the same change without changing the premium at all. So therefore they haven't really changed the premium, they've just changed the game around it. Might not hold up perfectly, but it's some cover in a jurisdiction where they could be made to refund purchases.

[OppaiOppaiDaisuki]

I dont know what you're talking about Gremy isnt OP at all 

 

[_Caliph_]

I think it comes down to that the changes to premium battleships and destroyers are global, while nerfing Gremy or Imperator would be targeted to those ships. Premium ships were all also affected by the armor normalization changes. There's probably a subtle legal argument behind it- functionally if WG has changed everyone equally, then they could have implemented the same change without changing the premium at all. So therefore they haven't really changed the premium, they've just changed the game around it. Might not hold up perfectly, but it's some cover in a jurisdiction where they could be made to refund purchases.

 

I think that sounds like an excuse that will make me think long and hard about my future purchases. As should anyone that is dropping 50 bucks or so a month collecting them.

[Admiral_Ice]

Modifying real world transactions to getting less then you paid for = WG will have a war path to lawsuit. USA is very sue happy, dunno how it works in Russia but we Americans sue for burns from hot coffee

[_Caliph_]

I don't have an axe to grind with WG. But I buy every premium they sell pretty much and if some ships labeled "premium" can't be altered then none of them should be. If a ship labeled "premium" can be altered then there is zero reason to shield any from it. And should they you can take that as evidence there is clearly Russian bias in their decision. Simple as that. How big of a deal is that? Meh. All depends on the individual. But they didn't cut the gun range on Mikhail either.

 

 I do know that if my premiums are nerfed and unenjoyable to play afterwards, mediocre in their output compared to previous, you can be assured my spending days are over.

 

And to be brutally critical the reason this is occurring is because there is too much emphasis on creating premiums and far to little on getting the game where they want it. This "meta" isn't new.

[Morpheous]

I agree with post that premium ships should not be changed, but again as stated this is a over all game change, not designed to target premium ships, so therefore I have to agree with it, as it affects all ships, thus leaving the premium pretty much n the same position that it was in, a bit different, a bit superior ?

[MajorRenegade]

Modifying real world transactions to getting less then you paid for = WG will have a war path to lawsuit. USA is very sue happy, dunno how it works in Russia but we Americans sue for burns from hot coffee

good luck, everything you paid for on your account is owned by WG, Not you. read the ToS

[Goose21891]

good luck, everything you paid for on your account is owned by WG, Not you. read the ToS

Pretty sure it's the same with Valve and Steam

[Admiral_Ice]

good luck, everything you paid for on your account is owned by WG, Not you. read the ToS

 

My credit card company has a bit more saying power then WG would like to legally deal with. 

[MajorRenegade]

 

My credit card company has a bit more saying power then WG would like to legally deal with. 

and they have the ability to lock your account. So like I said, good luck

[BlazerSparta]

I think it comes down to that the changes to premium battleships and destroyers are global, while nerfing Gremy or Imperator would be targeted to those ships. Premium ships were all also affected by the armor normalization changes. There's probably a subtle legal argument behind it- functionally if WG has changed everyone equally, then they could have implemented the same change without changing the premium at all. So therefore they haven't really changed the premium, they've just changed the game around it. Might not hold up perfectly, but it's some cover in a jurisdiction where they could be made to refund purchases.

 

Then nerf crap globally then individually buff everything other than those prems.

[_Caliph_]

and they have the ability to lock your account. So like I said, good luck

 

And the moment they do that all reverse transactions are approved as you have lost access to the account. Verifiable by the card issuer. But all that is unnecessary. No one wants to be in bad standing with WG. People who buy premiums are the financiers of this game. It needs to be respected to a point. If you nerf X you have altered the agreement number one but also many purchase decisions would have been different because the environment is changed. Would someone who paid 40 bucks for a Blyskawica have done so if they knew torpedo range was being cut and DD armor weakened?

[Valoel_Vegas]

good luck, everything you paid for on your account is owned by WG, Not you. read the ToS

 

This.

 

There is no legal obligation here, they just do it to maintain customer trust.

 

There is always the argument that in actual lawsuits however, most courts will wipe their asses with eulas/tos

[ZombieFlanders]

Pretty sure it's the same with Valve and Steam

 

and every piece of software out there on every sort of tech we own. 

 

WG reserve the right to alter ships to re-balanced the game, and they should. as the game shifts with new content and flavors of the month the game needs to be adjusted.  

 

the ships are advertised as ships which offer free crew transfers, extra earnings and the like. if these changed then you might have a point OP. characteristics like armor amounts and RoF etc are not selling points specifically, and should be changed to keep the game balanced. otherwise, are we supposed to have a totally unbalanced mess just on some far too strict principles? thats not a good alterneative...

 

 

[Nhi_Vanye]

I think it comes down to that the changes to premium battleships and destroyers are global, while nerfing Gremy or Imperator would be targeted to those ships. Premium ships were all also affected by the armor normalization changes. There's probably a subtle legal argument behind it- functionally if WG has changed everyone equally, then they could have implemented the same change without changing the premium at all. So therefore they haven't really changed the premium, they've just changed the game around it. Might not hold up perfectly, but it's some cover in a jurisdiction where they could be made to refund purchases.

 

My only problem with this is they did not apply the global RU DD gun detectability change to Gremy.  That was a global change to RU 130mm guns to increase their detectability upon firing.  If that change were applied to Gremy it would be much less OP (would remove stock stealth fire).  So, it still seems that WG is being very inconsistent, at least to me.

[BBsquid]

good luck, everything you paid for on your account is owned by WG, Not you. read the ToS

Exactly this. While not overly thrilled with the nerfs to premiums and the resultant changes, as MR said...we own nothing in their IP. Thats probably why it irritates me..I have long held that I will never pay real $$ for ingame "toon" baubles in any of the games I play. The historian and collector in me made me violate that rule in WoWs. The ToS makes it abundantly clear that we own nothing, and everything is subject to change. It is what it is.

[QSG]

Well we can only go by what is written in the ToS (http://legal.na.wargaming.net/?Terms-of-Service);

From Section 7 subsection 7.4

 

• (e) once you have redeemed or activated Content, including without limitation any Virtual Good, it is not returnable, exchangeable, or refundable for other Content or for cash, or other goods or services; and
• (f) we may change, replace, remove access to or update the Content at any time in our sole discretion.

 

[_Caliph_]

Exactly this. While not overly thrilled with the nerfs to premiums and the resultant changes, as MR said...we own nothing in their IP. Thats probably why it irritates me..I have long held that I will never pay real $$ for ingame "toon" baubles in any of the games I play. The historian and collector in me made me violate that rule in WoWs. The ToS makes it abundantly clear that we own nothing, and everything is subject to change. It is what it is.

 

People don't have to win in court to get the point across. A small claim forces the company to appear or have a judgment rendered against them. And the cost of appearing will easily equal the value of the account. I'm not interested in the legal/illegal part, I'm speaking on principle but you are absolutely incorrect if you assume there is nothing a disgruntled spender can do to equalize the loss. Premium ships are not premium time. They do not have a time limit or an expiration. And the TOS is made up by the company and quite frankly has no power anywhere until it's proven to be credible in court. At the cost of the company of course. See the principle? It costs $25 to file a claim. Appear or lose.

 

Also consider my TOS with my credit card. Anything I buy that is not as described can be charged back. As long as I get my money the company, credit and WG, can sort it out for themselves.

 

I have zero interest in hundreds of dollars in ships changing dramatically to the point I no longer have a desire to play them. And the kicker here is this is just exploratory. Not guaranteed to be the end.

[Valoel_Vegas]

I dunno why people cling onto their op p2w premiums so hard in this game, I probably own more of them than most of you and I have no qualms with them being nerfed for the greater health of the game, I played my kutuzov for the first time in a month today and was reminded how disgusting it was

[Skye_Hino]

The only thing I might have a problem with is if they change the Kamikaze R/Fujin torpedos when they make the changes to Minekaze. And even then, I'll only really be upset if it makes them a chore to play. As long as they are still fun and not underpowered, I'll be fine with it.

[_Caliph_]

I dunno why people cling onto their op p2w premiums so hard in this game, I probably own more of them than most of you and I have no qualms with them being nerfed for the greater health of the game, I played my kutuzov for the first time in a month today and was reminded how disgusting it was

 

Because they weren't free. There is labor behind their purchase. That's why. These ships aren't $8. There $40 or better typically.

[Izolyn]

I'm all for nerfing premiums if necessary, if only so that all the people who keep crying "Russian bias" at every possible opportunity will have fewer legs to stand on.

 

As long as they are still fun and not underpowered, I'll be fine with it.

 

Eeyup.

[_Caliph_]

I'm all for nerfing premiums if necessary, if only so that all the people who keep crying "Russian bias" at every possible opportunity will have fewer legs to stand on.

 

 

Eeyup.

 

Except Russian premiums like Mikhail weren't nerfed and until I hear differently Gremy and Imperator Nikolai are just too strong to allow everyone to own one and are untouchable.

 

If the new standard is buyer beware we may sell you a nuke cannon and turn it into a bb gun later, fine ill consider carefully, but there should be no exemptions from alterations.

[Aetreus]

good luck, everything you paid for on your account is owned by WG, Not you. read the ToS

There are jurisdictions where ToS riders like that mean zilch. I'd bet that WG's legal department is very cautious about jurisdictions with powerful consumer protection laws, the big one being the EU. Generally contracts like the ToS provide very little protection in such jurisdictions, because local laws mean that consumer rights cannot be contractually waived in sales.