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HMS_Banshee

Suggesting a smoke screen rework.

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I for one do not mind the smoke, but i am totally against DDs camping in it, thus why in my opinion smoke should get a rework too not just the bow armors, the covering your allies part of it is what smoke screens should be used for, DDs hiding in it should still appear on the map as a detected but unidentified target, makes sense imo afterall, passive onboard radars should still pickup the position of the ships hiding inside the smoke screen but without actual visual confirmation and identification of the target, so at least would give people a better chance to blindfire on the smoke campers hiding in it.

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....

 

Wall of text and run-on sentences help no one.

Edited by Unabletony
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There is no PASSIVE radar of any kind. Just FYI.

 

Also. Hiding and firing from within the smoke, regardless of ship type, is an open invitation for torps from all ships equipped with ones near by. I don't even know how many ships I killed by dumping torps into smoke. I even killed 3 DD's in the same smoke with one salvos once. A lot of fun. :)

Edited by chewonit

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Just to throw this in here, I honestly didn't read the OP, but I was mulling over an idea a few days ago. IIRC smoke was generated by the engines and not unique pieces of equipment. It would be interesting if a DD could NOT use smoke if it's engine was incapacitated AND if you were smoking and had it knocked out then the smoke would delay until repaired while using the cool down.

 

Say you have 20s to drop smoke, you get hit and incapacitated at the 5s marker, the cool down has 15s and continues to tick without generating smoke until you repair. I guarantee you will see an increased value in the engine protection module.

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....

 

Wall of text and run-on sentences help no one.

 

Excuse me?

There is no PASSIVE radar of any kind. Just FYI.

 

Also. Hiding and firing from within the smoke, regardless of ship type, is an open invitation for torps from all ships equipped with ones near by. I don't even know how many ships I killed by dumping torps into smoke. I even killed 3 DD's in the same smoke with one salvos once. A lot of fun. :)

 

That doesent happen all that often considering how nimble DDs are, they most of the times can slide in between torp salvos, be it surface torps or aerial dropped torps, and yeah, ik there is no "passive onboard radar" implemented in game, but maybe this change can very well simulate the presence of the onboard radars almost all mid-high tier ships DID AND SHOULD CARRY.

Want me to give u some sources of the radar sets equipped on most mid-late WW2 warships?

That little piece of equipment is as vital to a ship as the torpedoes carried by DDs or the rudders we use to turn around.

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If you want to change this mechanic, please offer a positive change to the mechanics so that DDs can still use their weapon systems without being instadeleted by every nearby ship.

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You just posted this as a comment in a related thread. 5 MINUTES LATER you decide it needs its own thread? :facepalm:

 

Edited by iagolan

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You just posted this as a comment in a related thread. 5 MINUTES LATER you decide it needs its own thread? :facepalm:

Considering that topic was named "Remove Smoke"

Yep, is that against the rules?

If you want to change this mechanic, please offer a positive change to the mechanics so that DDs can still use their weapon systems without being instadeleted by every nearby ship.

 

Most of the times DDs always outlive CAs so i dont see the instadeleted thing ur talking about, positive change?

Would enforce that consumable to be used for teamwork and team covering as it should from the start, not to encourage rambo personal gain seeking DDs.

Edited by Admiral_Chy

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Use a ship or teammate with hydro or radar = problem solved. Your finding a solution for a problem that doesn't exist

Edited by Cpt_Ice

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Excuse me?

 

That doesent happen all that often considering how nimble DDs are, they most of the times can slide in between torp salvos, be it surface torps or aerial dropped torps, and yeah, ik there is no "passive onboard radar" implemented in game, but maybe this change can very well simulate the presence of the onboard radars almost all mid-high tier ships DID AND SHOULD CARRY.

Want me to give u some sources of the radar sets equipped on most mid-late WW2 warships?

That little piece of equipment is as vital to a ship as the torpedoes carried by DDs or the rudders we use to turn around.

 

Try that with DD yourself and see how "easy" it is to dodge torps in smoke. Smoke works both ways. You don't see out of smoke unless friendly is spotting for you. And you won't see torp in the smoke until the very last second. 

 

Seriously. Try it. You will be amazed how hard it is to play DD, with or without smoke.

Edited by chewonit

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I for one do not mind the smoke, but i am totally against DDs camping in it, thus why in my opinion smoke should get a rework too not just the bow armors, the covering your allies part of it is what smoke screens should be used for, DDs hiding in it should still appear on the map as a detected but unidentified target, makes sense imo afterall, passive onboard radars should still pickup the position of the ships hiding inside the smoke screen but without actual visual confirmation and identification of the target, so at least would give people a better chance to blindfire on the smoke campers hiding in it.

 

 

Excuse me?

 

That doesent happen all that often considering how nimble DDs are, they most of the times can slide in between torp salvos, be it surface torps or aerial dropped torps, and yeah, ik there is no "passive onboard radar" implemented in game, but maybe this change can very well simulate the presence of the onboard radars almost all mid-high tier ships DID AND SHOULD CARRY.

Want me to give u some sources of the radar sets equipped on most mid-late WW2 warships?

That little piece of equipment is as vital to a ship as the torpedoes carried by DDs or the rudders we use to turn around.

REAL LIFE......vs Arcade game.....LOLZ

typing-gif_zps16pkum0s.gif
Edited by pmgaudio

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Try that with DD yourself and see how "easy" it is to dodge torps in smoke. Smoke works both ways. You don't see out of smoke unless friendly is spotting for you. And you won't see torp in the smoke until the very last second. 

 

Seriously. Try it. You will be amazed how hard it is to play DD, with or without smoke.

 

Forgot about that so excuse me, and ty for clearing it up for me.

What if you do not have anybody armed with torps around that certain smoke screen at that time, or anyone with Hydro/radar?

Why is it such a bad thing to discourage smoke campers which imo are just as bad as bow on campers, and encourage them to use the smoke to cover allies, or simply use it and reposition themselfs getting outside of detection?

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Just to throw this in here, I honestly didn't read the OP, but I was mulling over an idea a few days ago. IIRC smoke was generated by the engines and not unique pieces of equipment. It would be interesting if a DD could NOT use smoke if it's engine was incapacitated AND if you were smoking and had it knocked out then the smoke would delay until repaired while using the cool down.

 

Say you have 20s to drop smoke, you get hit and incapacitated at the 5s marker, the cool down has 15s and continues to tick without generating smoke until you repair. I guarantee you will see an increased value in the engine protection module.

 

Well, smoke could be produced by the ship's engines, but it was 'light' and quickly rose above the waters surface, and typically was black smoke.

 

In game, we have white smoke, which is a chemical smoke that sits on the surface until it dissipates, and AFAIK, ships in WWII did use this kind of smoke. You can even see the canisters modeled on some of the sterns of cruisers in the game, though, I don't doubt DDs also carried this canisters as well(at least later classes like Fletcher, Fubuki, etc.).

 

Edit: Directly from Wikipedia about Smoke Screens:

 

Naval methods

Warships have sometimes used a simple variation of the smoke generator, by injecting fuel oil directly into the smoke stack. An even simpler method that was used in the days of steam-propelled warships was to restrict the supply of air to the boiler. This resulted in incomplete combustion of the coal or oil, which produced a thick black smoke. Because the smoke was black, it absorbed heat from the sun and tended to rise above the water. Therefore, navies turned to various chemicals, such as titanium tetrachloride, that produce a white, low-lying cloud.

Edited by GhostSwordsman
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Forgot about that so excuse me, and ty for clearing it up for me.

What if you do not have anybody armed with torps around that certain smoke screen at that time, or anyone with Hydro/radar?

Why is it such a bad thing to discourage smoke campers which imo are just as bad as bow on campers, and encourage them to use the smoke to cover allies, or simply use it and reposition themselfs getting outside of detection?

 

Most DDs have a gun range of around 10km. Not really camping. 

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Well, smoke could be produced by the ship's engines, but it was 'light' and quickly rose above the waters surface, and typically was black smoke.

 

In game, we have white smoke, which is a chemical smoke that sits on the surface until it dissipates, and AFAIK, ships in WWII did use this kind of smoke. You can even see the canisters modeled on some of the sterns of cruisers in the game, though, I don't doubt DDs also carried this canisters as well(at least later classes like Fletcher, Fubuki, etc.).

 

Edit: Directly from Wikipedia about Smoke Screens:

 

Naval methods

Warships have sometimes used a simple variation of the smoke generator, by injecting fuel oil directly into the smoke stack. An even simpler method that was used in the days of steam-propelled warships was to restrict the supply of air to the boiler. This resulted in incomplete combustion of the coal or oil, which produced a thick black smoke. Because the smoke was black, it absorbed heat from the sun and tended to rise above the water. Therefore, navies turned to various chemicals, such as titanium tetrachloride, that produce a white, low-lying cloud.

 

Example: smoke screens used to cover the Tirpitz in the fjords of norway.

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Use a ship or teammate with hydro or radar = problem solved. Your finding a solution for a problem that doesn't exist

 

So what you're saying is he already works for WG as a developer???

 

Or maybe that he should apply to be on the development team since they're constantly solving problems not yet in existence?

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So what you're saying is he already works for WG as a developer???

 

Or maybe that he should apply to be on the development team since they're constantly solving problems not yet in existence?

 

Considering the bow armor rework, seems WG is working on fixing stuff, up to them to consider if this is a valid suggestion or not, and if they want to encourage more campers or less.

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This is just as silly as the current developers' desire to "put an end to BB's utilizing DD smoke." 

 

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I for one do not mind the smoke, but i am totally against DDs camping in it, thus why in my opinion smoke should get a rework too not just the bow armors, the covering your allies part of it is what smoke screens should be used for, DDs hiding in it should still appear on the map as a detected but unidentified target, makes sense imo afterall, passive onboard radars should still pickup the position of the ships hiding inside the smoke screen but without actual visual confirmation and identification of the target, so at least would give people a better chance to blindfire on the smoke campers hiding in it.

 

Considering you've given no alternative to offset the durability issue with DD's and you've given no alternative to give USN DD's to compensate for the stupid gun arcs at long ranges (necessary to not die instantly), I'm going to say NO.  Russian DD's and IJN DD's wont see much of an issue with this because they are viable at range with guns or torps (or both with the higher tier IJN DD's) but the USN would literally lose it's offensive capability for anything except torps and BB's.  Long range gunnery on USN DD's is nearly impossible and with this change, short range gunnery would be suicidal.  

 

If smoke is a problem for you, simply avoid it.  You know a DD is most likely in it (only a few non DD's with smoke) and you know torps are coming, so WASD and watch the torps fail to find a home.  Use cruisers with Radar/Hydro to push into the smoke and punish them for their existence, but leave my USN DD's alone... they are literally the last USN line that is performing half way decent (and even then could use buffs at some tiers).

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Considering you've given no alternative to offset the durability issue with DD's and you've given no alternative to give USN DD's to compensate for the stupid gun arcs at long ranges (necessary to not die instantly), I'm going to say NO.  Russian DD's and IJN DD's wont see much of an issue with this because they are viable at range with guns or torps (or both with the higher tier IJN DD's) but the USN would literally lose it's offensive capability for anything except torps and BB's.  Long range gunnery on USN DD's is nearly impossible and with this change, short range gunnery would be suicidal.  

 

If smoke is a problem for you, simply avoid it.  You know a DD is most likely in it (only a few non DD's with smoke) and you know torps are coming, so WASD and watch the torps fail to find a home.  Use cruisers with Radar/Hydro to push into the smoke and punish them for their existence, but leave my USN DD's alone... they are literally the last USN line that is performing half way decent (and even then could use buffs at some tiers).

 

Maybe make the USN gunboat DDs as viable as the Russian ones are or idk m8, tbh im sorry if i offended anyone with this suggestion but well its how i personally see smoke screens, usable for team work not personal gaining.

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Maybe make the USN gunboat DDs as viable as the Russian ones are or idk m8, tbh im sorry if i offended anyone with this suggestion but well its how i personally see smoke screens, usable for team work not personal gaining.

 

How is being used for teamwork NOT being used for personal gain?  Every time I pop smoke to cover a friendly, I increase the time a friendly ship is alive, which means they can shoot more, which hopefully means they can kill more which means we WIN more.  That's a personal gain.  

 

Also, there is no way WG will ever make USN DD's as viable as the Russian ones are as gun boats.  That's all the Russian DD's are... they wont give better torpedoes because IJN DD's exist in that meta.  They intended to make USN DD's the jack of all trades line, which means usable (but not great) guns and usable (but not great) torpedoes.  Right now the only way the guns on a USN DD work is with smoke screens or map design that allows camping behind islands (which is a situational tactic at best).  Stealth firing with suborbital trajectories is frustrating and frequently does next to no damage and has very low chance for fire proc.  Offensive smoke is the single most powerful tool in the USN DD lineup and it has HUGE tradeoffs in that most people have learned to torpedo smoke clouds and that it plants you in one location to use it.  It's perfectly balanced as is and those who use it wrong will be punished, those who use it right will be rewarded.  It has four counters:  Distance (2.5km default, 3.5km with the detection module at T8+), Hydro, Radar, and torps.  If you can't use them in your BB because you don't have them or it is too dangerous, then you need to be near someone who does.  That's teamwork and something you should be participating in.  If you are out by yourself in a BB then the hard counter to you (which is DD's, by the way) SHOULD be able to kill you rather easily.

 

 

Edited by UrPeaceKeeper

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