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SirKenshi

Ideas for re-balance cruisers and dds

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So, with information about the Brittish cruisers getting rid of their smoke screen, being reworked and all the discussions going on i think this could contribute a bit.

Basically is a rework of the consumables/upgrades/skills on cruisers and dds.

 

British Cruisers

Because at lower tiers it's hard to counter smoke, they get rid of smoke and get radar instead, starting at T6, then at T8 smoke screen may be included due to radar being available in others ships at the higher tiers.

Consumables

Radar

T6 to T7 - Reload time: 360s(240s), duration: 15s, range: ~7km, charges: 2(3)

T8 to T10 - Reload time: 240s(180s), duration: 20s, range: ~8km, charges 2(3)

 

Smoke screen

T8 - Reload time: 360s(240s), work time: 24s, lifetime: 106s, charges: 2(3)

T9 - Reload time: 360s(240s), work time: 25s, lifetime: 110s, charges 2(3)

T10 - Reload time: 360s(240s), work time: 26s, lifetime: 114s, charges 2(3)

 

Catapult Fighter

T5 to T8 - 180s(120s), active 360s

T9/10 - 240s(180s), active 240s

charges (variable, depends on hangar capacity ~2/3)

 

Slots

T6 to T7 (T4 to T5 gets only hydro and floatplane)

2th: Hydroacoustic search(same as USN)

3th: Defensive AA fire(same as USN)/Radar

4th: Catapult Fighter

 

T8

2th: Hydroacoustic search(same as USN)/Radar

3th: Defensive AA fire(same as USN)/Smoke Screen

4th: Spotter plane/Catapult fighter

 

T9/10

2th: Hydroacoustic search(same as USN)

3th: Defensive AA fire(same as USN)/Smoke Screen

4th: Catapult fighter/Radar

5th: Repair party

 

USN Cruiser

Giving some love to american line and reforcing the support capabilities (specially on AA duty) on the consumables section.

New consumable: Extended AA fire: Increase AA firing range by 12% (it won’t panic bombers)

Reworks(fully upgraded)

Pensacola

Main gun range: 16,2km

Detectability: 15,2km

 

New Orleans

Main battery firing range: 16,4km

Main battery reload time: 13,5s

Main battery traverse speed: 25s/180°

 

Baltimore

Main battery firing range: 16,5km

Main battery traverse speed: 28s

 

Des Moines

Main battery firing range: 16,2km

 

Consumables

Radar

T7 - Reload time: 360s(240s), duration: 18s, range: ~8km, charges: 1(2)

T8 - Reload time: 240s(180s), remaining stats stay as they are.

T9 to T10 - Reload time: 180s(120s), remaining stats stay as they are.

 

Extended AA fire

T8 to 10 – Reload time: 240s(180s), duration: 40s, charges: 2(3)

 

Slots

T5 to T6 (can mount Def AA on 2th or 3th slot)

2th: Hydroacoustic search/Defensive AA fire

3th: Catapult fighter/Defensive AA fire

 

 

T8 (can mount Radar on 2th or 4th slot)

2th: Hydroacoustic search/Radar

3th: Defensive AA fire/Extended AA fire

4th: Catapult fighter/Radar

 

T9/10

2th: Hydroacoustic search/Radar

3th: Defensive AA fire/Extended AA fire

4th: Catapult fighter/Spotter plane

5th: Repair party

 

Russian Cruisers

Reworks(fully upgraded)

Svietlana

Main battery firing range: 12km

 

Kirov

Rudder shift time: 7,2s

Keeps spotter plane on B hull

Turning circle radius: 830m

 

Shchors

Main battery firing range: 16,9km

Turning circle radius: 860m

 

Chapayev

Maximum speed: 34,5 knots

Torpedo armament: 2x3 ET 46 (RT: 130s, Dmg: 19k, Range: 6 km, Speed: 53 knots)

 

Dimitri Donskoi

Detectability: 15,5km

Main battery loading time: 12s

 

Moskva

Main battery reload time: 11s

Main battery firing range: 18,8km

Detectability: 17,3km

 

Consumables

Radar

T8 to T10 - Reload time: 360s(240s), remaining stats stay as they are.

 

Engine boost(+5% top speed, -25% time to reach full power)

T9/10 - Reload time: 240s(160s), duration: 80s, charges: 2(3)

 

Slots

T6 to T7 (T4 to T5 gets hydro and spotter plane on Kirov)

2th: Hydroacoustic search/Defensive AA fire

3th: Spotter plane

 

T8

2th: Hydroacoustic search/Defensive AA fire

3th: Radar

4th: Catapult fighter/Spotter plane

 

T9/10

2th: Hydroacoustic search/Defensive AA fire

3th: Radar/Engine boost

4th: Repair party

 

IJN Cruisers

A pontential candidate for unique consumable for the japs could be a reworked version of Torpedo reload booster.

Instead of reducing torpedo tubes reload time to 30s it could reduce torpedo reload time -30% when its activated

For example Ibuki top torps with 120s reload time.

Fired all torps on one side then press the Torpedo reload booster, and from 120s drop to 84s. I'll happen to every reload while its active. If you reload is on 30s and you acitvate it, the reload will be cut -30%(9s), so will drop to 21s.

Defensive AA Barrage (inspired by suggestion of Destroyer Kiyoshimo). +100% to average damage per second of AA guns (it won’t panic bombers)

Reworks (fully upgraded)

Furutaka

Main battery firing range: 13,4km

 

Myoko

Main battery turret traverse: 40s

Detectability: 12,9km

 

Mogami

Main battery firing range: 15,9km (203mm) - 14,9km(155mm)

Main battery turret traverse: 45s(155mm) - 35s(203mm)

 

Ibuki

Survivability:  40.000 HP

 

Zao

Survivability: 42.500 HP

 

Consumables

Torpedo Reload Booster

T9/10 - Reload time: 360s(240s), duration: 30s, charges: 1(2)

 

Defensive AA barrage

T9/10 - Reload time 360s(240s), duration: 20s, charges: 2(3)

 

Slots

2th: Defensive AA fire/Def. AA Barrage

3th: Torpedo Reload Booster/Hydroacoustic search

4th: Catapult fighter/ Spotter plane

5th: Repair party

 

*nerf gun fire control sys mod.2 (+10% to maximum firing range)

 

Russian dds

Get rid of AFT for all destroyers and add Artillery plotting room 1(+10% to maxim firing range) as an upgrade starting at T5, having to make a choice between accuracy or range. With the appropiate adjustment to range for all dds and cruisers with low caliber guns could work.

Alos get rid of -10% to reload time by BFT(on main guns) and add a Level 5 skill -10% reload time with a turret traverse penalty of 15%

The gun reload nerf on the Udaloi and Khaba may be ok(4,6s to 5s) as long you can equip main bat.mod.3

Gnevny - 11,9km +10% = 13km

Ognevoi - 12km +10% = 13,2km

Kiev - 12,3km +10% = 13,5km

Tashkent - 11,6km +10% = 12,7km(buff range?)

Udaloi - 12,1km +10% = 13,3km

Khabarovsk - 13km +10% = 14,3km

 

Personally, i dont think its a good idea getting rid of HE on Brit cruisers, as the game works now and the smoke screen still could work at high tier because theres plenty of radar that can counter that. Just my opinion, let me know what you think.

Greetings!

 

 

Edited by SirKenshi
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Yes, lets buff RU DD's expecially the Khab!

 

 

Gnevny - 11,9km +10% = 13km

Ognevoi - 12km +10% = 13,2km

Kiev - 12,3km +10% = 13,5km

Tashkent - 11,6km +10% = 12,7km(buff range?)

Udaloi - 12,1km +10% = 13,3km

Khabarovsk - 13km +10% = 14,3km

 

Personally, i dont think its a good idea getting rid of HE on Brit cruisers, as the game works now and the smoke screen still could work at high tier because theres plenty of radar that can counter that. Just my opinion, let me know what you think.

Greetings!

 

 

Edited by Spyde

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Rofl... This guy wants to buff the Khabarovsk...

 

That pretty sums up of how your openion of "Balancing" is off.

I wonder where did i wanted to buff khaba?:hmm:

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No love for KM?

 

Not today, too lazy :sleep_fish:

Maybe a consumable that increases accuracy? that'll be crazy...

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USN Cruiser

Giving some love to american line and reforcing the support capabilities (specially on AA duty)

Radar

T8 to T10 - Reload time: 180s(120s), remaining stats stay as they are.

 

Slots

 

T6 to T7 (T5 gets only hydro and floatplane)

2th: Hydroacoustic search

3th: Defensive AA fire

4th: Catapult aircraft

 

T8/10

2th: Hydroacoustic search/Radar

3th: Defensive AA fire

4th: Catapult plane

5th: Repair party

 

 

While a buff to the AA capability of the Pensacola, New Orleans and Baltimore would be nice given that their AA really isn't that great outside of DF, it doesn't really address some of the issues they have. Couple that with CV's being the least played class and slowly reaching near mythical status in the higher tiers and I don't think this does much to actually help them.

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While a buff to the AA capability of the Pensacola, New Orleans and Baltimore would be nice given that their AA really isn't that great outside of DF, it doesn't really address some of the issues they have. Couple that with CV's being the least played class and slowly reaching near mythical status in the higher tiers and I don't think this does much to actually help them.

It was kinda about consumables only, related to recent news about brits losing smoke.. so i just focus on that side... indeed usn cruisers t7 to t9 needs more love

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Wait a minute. Did you just suggest that giving IJN crusiers a torp reload accelerator consumable in lieu of hydro/AA is actually a buff or even a choice?

 

Giving torp reload buffs to cruisers does absolutely nothing in almost any situation. If you're spamming torps in an IJN cruiser like a DD, you're doing something very wrong. I could go matches without even firing the torps from my Zao and I can't even remember the last time I thought that I needed faster reloading torps in an IJN cruiser. 

 

Torps on cruisers are, imo, used for two purposes. One is close range attacks in which if you screw up your torp launches, no sane amount of torp reload boost is going to save your [edited]. The other is for area denial or forcing other ships away, which also doesn't need torp reload boosting. 

 

The only IJN cruiser I can see this helping is the now extinct Kitakami

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Wait a minute. Did you just suggest that giving IJN crusiers a torp reload accelerator consumable in lieu of hydro/AA is actually a buff or even a choice?

 

Giving torp reload buffs to cruisers does absolutely nothing in almost any situation. If you're spamming torps in an IJN cruiser like a DD, you're doing something very wrong. I could go matches without even firing the torps from my Zao and I can't even remember the last time I thought that I needed faster reloading torps in an IJN cruiser. 

 

Torps on cruisers are, imo, used for two purposes. One is close range attacks in which if you screw up your torp launches, no sane amount of torp reload boost is going to save your [edited]. The other is for area denial or forcing other ships away, which also doesn't need torp reload boosting. 

 

The only IJN cruiser I can see this helping is the now extinct Kitakami

 

Wait two minutes. Better get that than nothing, like KM :P japs were supposed to be master in torpedo warfare in real life, but in-game i dont think there's a complain about them, refering to cruisers they are fine (except mogamis 155s and Zao long range HE stealth spam:teethhappy:)

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Why not something like this?

 

* New consumable: Type 3 Shell. Details in spoiler tag:

 

--> Spare me the history I already know it was historically a terribly implemented idea, this is for the game

--> Type 3 shell, deals no damage to surface targets, has a cooldown and ammunition limit like other consumables

--> Can only be used when at least 1/3 of the ship's guns are reloaded. Capability of the ability improves if more guns are fully loaded when it is used

--> When pressed, pulls camera to a top-down view and allows the player to select an area around the ship. There is a minimum range of at least 5km (varies by ship), so it can't be dropped right on top of you

--> Clicking again activates the skill. All loaded guns are unloaded/forced to reload. Projectiles fly from the turrets to the target zone and, upon reaching it, explode into cones of shrapnel that spread out from the initial detonation point

--> ALL aircraft (friendly and not) caught in the burst are subject to heavy damage, akin to a fighter strafe

--> ALL ships beneath the cone are not damaged, but may be set on fire 1-4 times (depending on how many shrapnel effects pass over them)

--> Each shell fired explodes into 1 shrapnel cone (20.3cm), 2 shrapnel cones (35.1cm, 41cm), or 3 shrapnel cones (18 inch). Number of projectiles fired directly corresponds to the number of guns that were ready when the skill was used. For example Yamato with 1 gun ready to shoot a surface target will fire 3 projectiles (or 9 cones once they burst), while a Yamato with all 3 turrets ready will fire 9 projectiles (27 blast cones)

--> All IJN cruisers and IJN battleships get this ability

--> Anti-air ability on a long cooldown, does not panic planes but may cause significant damage. May also be useful vs surface targets. Standard shell travel time. Forces a choice between shooting a Type 3 barrage or continuing to attack current surface targets, and the type 3 can still be juked.

--> IJN flavor tends to be crazy all-or-nothing weapons, so this can fit that

--> Possible RNG chance of disabling a turret (temporarily) when fired

 

Edited by Destroyer_Kiyoshimo
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the Khab already shoots 16km. He is nerfing it :D

 

15.5km, I thought. Unless you're talking about firing at a target coming towards you.

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15.5km, I thought. Unless you're talking about firing at a target coming towards you.

Sorry bad habit of rounding up, 15.5km is correct 

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Why not something like this?

 

 

I like the idea in general, but only on high tier cruiser, and with any chance of setting on fire ships (specially ijn) or disabling guns.

How many charges and reload time?

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Nerf shell velocity of all ships to Cleveland at best. That is the best way to rebalance DDs and CAs.

 

With guns rebalanced in such a way vision has vastly less impirtance, he primary complaint outside of Khab and Kiev. Their guns will be handled with said Cleveland flight time nerf. Remember in tiers 1-6 where you didn't give a flying rat's [edited]if you were lit? That's the goal here.

 

CAs get a huge survivability buff with everyone having decreased effective range.

 

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Remember in tiers 1-6 where you didn't give a flying rat's [edited]if you were lit? That's the goal here.

Idk what does that mean, sorry

CAs get a huge survivability buff with everyone having decreased effective range.

With the removing of AFT every ships that its affected and can't mount artillery plotting room (aka russian dds T4 below, cruiser with low caliber guns, and maybe usn and ijn dds) should be rebalance in that regard, thats not an issue

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Idk what does that mean, sorry

With the removing of AFT every ships that its affected and can't mount artillery plotting room (aka russian dds T4 below, cruiser with low caliber guns, and maybe usn and ijn dds) should be rebalance in that regard, thats not an issue

 

Guns being too powerful is most definitely an issue, one that grows per tier.

 

Nerfing the guns on all classes is the best way to rebalance CAs and DDs, one for CA survivability and two for the de-emphasis of vision.

 

Your proposals for CAs are merely gameplay flavours that do nothing to adress their current grievences. Not exactly a re-balance.  While your proposals with RU DDs can be more simply handled with said shell velocity nerf.

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Guns being too powerful is most definitely an issue, one that grows per tier.

 

Nerfing the guns on all classes is the best way to rebalance CAs and DDs, one for CA survivability and two for the de-emphasis of vision.

 

Your proposals for CAs are merely gameplay flavours that do nothing to adress their current grievences. Not exactly a re-balance.  While your proposals with RU DDs can be more simply handled with said shell velocity nerf.

 

Maybe its just my "gameplay flavours" and im wrong but I would like to read your opinion about the current grievances(aside from the pasive, selfish, poorly or clueless playstyle of some players), people have different points of view about one subject.

I think nerfing shell velocity on RU dds will reduce the breach between usn dds. They're most likely a small light cruiser playstyle and already have the worst concealment of all dds and are behind in RoF..i'm not sure about that idea

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Maybe its just my "gameplay flavours" and im wrong but I would like to read your opinion about the current grievances(aside from the pasive, selfish, poorly or clueless playstyle of some players), people have different points of view about one subject.

I think nerfing shell velocity on RU dds will reduce the breach between usn dds. They're most likely a small light cruiser playstyle and already have the worst concealment of all dds and are behind in RoF..i'm not sure about that idea

 

Most current complaints can be fixed by nerfing guns.

 

1. Cruisers get deleted easily. Everyone and their mothers are a legitimate threat out to 17km (and oftentimes more than that.) 17km is basically half the map, and usually half the enemy team. Unlike DDs and BBs cruisers have no mechanic to mitigate damage. So engaging 4+ enemies with no defense is certainly fun. If you nerf guns so effective range is say, 12km like mid tiers, those guys sitting 16km away are not immediate threats and you can engage the enemy piecemeal.

 

2. DDs somehow OP. The only thing people have legitimate complaints over are RU guns and vision. RU guns can get nerfed heavily by shell velocity nerfs (like USN DDs in CBT) while vision is not an issue in and of itself. Vision is only a problem because they enable guns, and hence control of vision is of paramount importance. DDs control vision well, hence the complaints even when DDs themselves don't do much of anything.

 

But note in tiers 1-6 nobody gives a crap about being lit and vision is of little concern. Why? It's because guns at these tiers are not hyper accurate lolpen/flamethrowers with a million range. Nerfing guns automatically nerfs most of DD influence on the match.

 

3. Camping. Again note tiers 1-6 is often more dynamic than tiers above it. This is again because guns are not yet powerful enough to encourage camping. In these tiers when you get lit you do not have to handle half the enemy team, all of whom are legitimate threats.

 

4. RU DDs with USN DD shell flight time would definitely balance them well. Or at least it would be amusing, even if not balanced (but it'll be more balanced than now for sure.)

 

5. Minor: stealth firing. Yeah have fun shooting past 15km with Cleveland's (or worse) shell flight time.

 

6. Muh accuracy! De jure (hard ship stat) accuracy is not going down, which is what is best about this sort of proposal. The gun fetishists cannot complain. De facto (player hit rate) however......git gud is the perfect rebuttal.

 

All of these balancing issues can be fixed by nerfing one thing. Shell flight time. No need to make makeshift patches to individual ships, when in reality no one individual ship is encouraging camping or ruining CA viability. They all are causing camping at high tier. Barring Kagero and Shima, who are non factors because they have no guns. 

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1. Cruisers get deleted easily. Everyone and their mothers are a legitimate threat out to 17km (and oftentimes more than that.) 17km is basically half the map, and usually half the enemy team. Unlike DDs and BBs cruisers have no mechanic to mitigate damage. So engaging 4+ enemies with no defense is certainly fun. If you nerf guns so effective range is say, 12km like mid tiers, those guys sitting 16km away are not immediate threats and you can engage the enemy piecemeal.

I understand this point to encourage cruiser players to "get in the fight" feeling relatively safe from "long range sitting back" players

According to that approach and aside of nerfing gun range, maps size should be nerfed too. And yet if you manage to balance the range on main guns between dds, bbs, and cl's/ca's still there will be some issues like cv's stalking at ~12km while you can't return fire, slows ship that spent too much time getting in a decent (very risky)postion to support and when they get there they cant runaway, long range torps (+12km, that will be ridiculous. Actually, the 20 & 15km torps i think are too much), and others relationet to the current meta of game (or at least perception of a percentage of players of how they should play the game) that need to be fixed for this to work.

2. DDs somehow OP. The only thing people have legitimate complaints over are RU guns and vision. RU guns can get nerfed heavily by shell velocity nerfs (like USN DDs in CBT) while vision is not an issue in and of itself. Vision is only a problem because they enable guns, and hence control of vision is of paramount importance. DDs control vision well, hence the complaints even when DDs themselves don't do much of anything.

But note in tiers 1-6 nobody gives a crap about being lit and vision is of little concern. Why? It's because guns at these tiers are not hyper accurate lolpen/flamethrowers with a million range. Nerfing guns automatically nerfs most of DD influence on the match.

So basically RU big-size dds will have only their speed (and not so great manoeuvrability) to stand a chance of avoiding incoming shells at close range ~12km (if not sitting in smoke, risk of radar) while their are trying to hit stuff with their low velocity guns?

idk man, could work but people mentality need to change asap and promote more team work

I think nobody cares being lit at low tiers cos people dont understand the fact yet, they dont have fear yet of repair cost, guns range are similar to their own concealment (your proposal?)... at low tiers there's more islands near to get into cover cos the map is small, a dd really does not want to be lit or they get deleted, cruiser also die very easily and a 20knots cruiser can't help the friendly bb that's being harrased only 8km away... i would love to see the fun low tier gameplay at high tiers indeed, but not sure about being kind of the same with bigger expensive ships

3. Camping. Again note tiers 1-6 is often more dynamic than tiers above it. This is again because guns are not yet powerful enough to encourage camping. In these tiers when you get lit you do not have to handle half the enemy team, all of whom are legitimate threats.

Even though its true, camping is more link to the player itself and his will to do whatever he wants

4. RU DDs with USN DD shell flight time would definitely balance them well. Or at least it would be amusing, even if not balanced (but it'll be more balanced than now for sure.)

So what will be the main difference between them?

5. Minor: stealth firing. Yeah have fun shooting past 15km with Cleveland's (or worse) shell flight time.

I really dislike stealth firing, but that is connected more to range and concealment than shell flight time(usn dds can stealth fire quite good if you are used to them)

6. Muh accuracy! De jure (hard ship stat) accuracy is not going down, which is what is best about this sort of proposal. The gun fetishists cannot complain. De facto (player hit rate) however......

If you see my proposal there have to be a trade between range and accuracy (on russian dds) with upgrades mods, but still now rng have pretty good influence on +10km shoots so thats ok.

Your idea could potentially work, but has a hard general rebalance task behind it.

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note in tiers 1-6 nobody gives a crap about being lit and vision is of little concern. Why? It's because guns at these tiers are not hyper accurate lolpen/flamethrowers with a million range. 

 

 

Sir. I beg to differ. Allow me to present to you, the best guns under tier 7.

 

N69ymvh.png

 

Now, some poor delusional sod-headed Murcian' patriot might claim that the mighty Clemson's guns are better than the Izyaslav, and to him, I say. PHOOEY.

 

BeB5pnO.png

 

There is a slight tactical advantage going with the Clemson's gun arrangement - since the Izy's front turrets are not super-firing...which can be annoying at times.

 

Clemson: 5-gun max broadside to the Clemsons 6-gun max.

Izysalv: 1.8 second faster rate of fire.

Clemson: Faster turret traverse - with EM ( I don't have EM on my Clemson, but I do on my Izyaslav.)

Clemson: Slight dispersion win.

Izyaslav: 1% higher chance of fire, same HE damage.

Izyaslav: 100 higher AP damage.

Izyaslav: 1.8km Range ADVANTAGE.

Clemson: ~60m/s Shell Velocity Advantage

 

Now, to me, the nearly 2-second faster Rate of Fire on the Izyaslav more than makes up for its one less barrel. It's got a higher fire chance, AND range. And while the Clemson has the shell velocity  - it's nearly 2km shorter in range (both have AFT + BFT + DE in these images.)

 

Simply put, the Izyaslav spews fires. If someone isn't on fire - they are going to be as soon as you point your guns in their general direction. The Clemson is good, I love that boat. But the Izyaslav's faster rate of fire, range, and fire chance allow it to utterly roast entire teams. It loses out in torpedo damage and range, but these are Gunboats we are talking about - and I gun at max range when possible.  The Izyaslav, at tier 4, you'd better be careful. Her guns are dangerous. 

 

(Izyaslav 6.5 concealment, Clemson is 6.79 - both with camo.)

 

Because, 23 fires, fun. http://wowreplays.com/Replay/16821

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Sir. I beg to differ. Allow me to present to you, the best guns under tier 7.

Now, some poor delusional sod-headed Murcian' patriot might claim that the mighty Clemson's guns are better than the Izyaslav, and to him, I say. PHOOEY.

There is a slight tactical advantage going with the Clemson's gun arrangement - since the Izy's front turrets are not super-firing...which can be annoying at times.

Clemson: 5-gun max broadside to the Clemsons 6-gun max.

Izysalv: 1.8 second faster rate of fire.

Clemson: Faster turret traverse - with EM ( I don't have EM on my Clemson, but I do on my Izyaslav.)

Clemson: Slight dispersion win.

Izyaslav: 1% higher chance of fire, same HE damage.

Izyaslav: 100 higher AP damage.

Izyaslav: 1.8km Range ADVANTAGE.

Clemson: ~60m/s Shell Velocity Advantage

Now, to me, the nearly 2-second faster Rate of Fire on the Izyaslav more than makes up for its one less barrel. It's got a higher fire chance, AND range. And while the Clemson has the shell velocity  - it's nearly 2km shorter in range (both have AFT + BFT + DE in these images.)

Simply put, the Izyaslav spews fires. If someone isn't on fire - they are going to be as soon as you point your guns in their general direction. The Clemson is good, I love that boat. But the Izyaslav's faster rate of fire, range, and fire chance allow it to utterly roast entire teams. It loses out in torpedo damage and range, but these are Gunboats we are talking about - and I gun at max range when possible.  The Izyaslav, at tier 4, you'd better be careful. Her guns are dangerous. 

(Izyaslav 6.5 concealment, Clemson is 6.79 - both with camo.)

Because, 23 fires, fun. http://wowreplays.com/Replay/16821

Both are very capable ships and for me it was hard to tell which are better, but looking at that chance of fire now, wow.. didn't notice that, but what i noticed is clemson has one more set of torps 4x3 vs 3x3 and they do more damage (+4k)

Edited by SirKenshi

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I like the idea in general, but only on high tier cruiser, and with any chance of setting on fire ships (specially ijn) or disabling guns.

How many charges and reload time?

 

I could see it with 2, 3 premium, 4 with Superintendent. Reload time is up in the air, I'd probably use Defensive Fire as a basis since they have a similar purpose-- and use the same slot, so you'd have to pick between defensive fire or type 3 shells.

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