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Gavroche_

Montana now no longer irrelevant!!! (and other ships changed too I guess)

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http://wows.ga/?p=723&lang=en&bsh_bid=1510763532

WG is addressing the high tier BB imbalance by making it so that all battleships are no longer resistant to 16" shells when bow on.  

Currently, most tier VIII+ BBs have 32 mm of bow armor (except the German ones which get like 60). In 5.12 it might get reduced to 28mm. Shells autopenetrate armor that is 14.3 times thinner than their caliber, this meant that the 18" shells on the Yamato could penetrate all but the German BBs frontally while 16" shells from literally everything else bounced off an angled front.

With this change we can expect to see: the Montana actually being able to damage to other angled battleships. The Yamato's 18" shells being only a lot better than the competition (as opposed to being ridiculously better).

The Tirpitz and Bismarck getting a HUGE nerf, other BBs will be able to penetrate their bow, but only they will only be able to return the favor to tier vii and lower BBs.

The high tier German BBs probably will do a bit better, since they can survive even showing broadside.

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I love the fact that this encourages proper angling instead of pants on head bow on crap.

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I love the fact that this encourages proper angling instead of pants on head bow on crap.

 

It only discourages aggression, you know.

 

So it's going to also encourage more max-range sniping and camping.

 

You know. The exact thing people hate about battleships.

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It only discourages aggression, you know.

 

Because nothing says "aggression" like an NC that's backing up at a leisurely 7-8 kts while bow-on.

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There's also now an armor buff for both Arizona and Nagato in the works.

 

Also, I welcome these changes. They are much needed.

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I'd be surprised if they applied the nerf to premium ships too.  Kind of a bait & switch to people who bought, and in the same vain as the Nikoli where they simply won't sell it again vs. rebalancing the ship.

 

 

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There's also now an armor buff for both Arizona and Nagato in the works.

 

Also, I welcome these changes. They are much needed.

Big_Spud, what are WG smoking? They are obviously smoking something if they are going to give the Arizona a buff.

Not that I'm angry, though, I'll take it. I have one.:trollface:

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The problem with high tiers is the existence of DDs without GOOD and I stress GOOD CV captains to negate their [edited]. 

 

DDs rule the sea at T10 because simply Cruisers at this tier are too scared to go out and hunt them. They dont have the RoF to go head on in a match. Plus anytime a cruiser gets more than 5-10 km away from the pack they are isolated and focused. So cruisers will sit back with the BBs. 

 

BBs dont go out because DDs at this tier can invisitorp from max range. Plus a BB has to drive like a drunken sailor zig zaging every 20 seconds just to avoid potential torps that were fired 10Km ago. 

 

The balance of t10 is predicated solely around a CV's ability to spot DDs. 

 

How does this all tie in? well if you have less of a threat of being torped to death or in the khaba's case melted to death you need to have cruisers hunt them while being able to protect themselves from those pesky BBs. BBs will push up only when it is safe to do so because of the fact they are a huge target. I hate max range BB play as it is disgusting and not fun. This new mechanic will be nice to see Montana since she is my only t10 so hopefully we get a better balance against [edited]Yamato captains just reverse sniping with 18'' shells and holding up a middle finger to everyone. 

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http://wows.ga/?p=723&lang=en&bsh_bid=1510763532

WG is addressing the high tier BB imbalance by making it so that all battleships are no longer resistant to 16" shells when bow on.  

Currently, most tier VIII+ BBs have 32 mm of bow armor (except the German ones which get like 60). In 5.12 it might get reduced to 28mm. Shells autopenetrate armor that is 14.3 times thinner than their caliber, this meant that the 18" shells on the Yamato could penetrate all but the German BBs frontally while 16" shells from literally everything else bounced off an angled front.

With this change we can expect to see: the Montana actually being able to damage to other angled battleships. The Yamato's 18" shells being only a lot better than the competition (as opposed to being ridiculously better).

The Tirpitz and Bismarck getting a HUGE nerf, other BBs will be able to penetrate their bow, but only they will only be able to return the favor to tier vii and lower BBs.

The high tier German BBs probably will do a bit better, since they can survive even showing broadside.

 

I'm kind of happy Montana will get more parity with her Tier X BB counterparts.  However, this has other very significant effects, especially for NC & Iowa.  In terms of protection, NC & Iowa are completely reliant on Bow On tactics because angled or side, their armor is useless.  With these changes, NC & Iowa may as well be armored like a Pensacola.

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There's also now an armor buff for both Arizona and Nagato in the works.

 

Also, I welcome these changes. They are much needed.

Big_Spud, what are WG smoking? They are obviously smoking something if they are going to give the Arizona a buff.

Not that I'm angry, though, I'll take it. I have one.:trollface:

 

Arizonas front bulkhead was literally 5 inches thinner than it should be. It was an actual error in the armor model, and they're fixing it.

 

Better than Nagato at least, which was missing up to TWELVE INCHES of armor on its magazines.

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i dont recommend though lol

 

I mean, at close range showing broadside to an Iowa is like 50-70k damage in a Montana or Yamato, in a Kurfürst it's like 20k damage.

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It only discourages aggression, you know.

 

So it's going to also encourage more max-range sniping and camping.

 

You know. The exact thing people hate about battleships.

 

I disagree, I think it will force action so you're not slowly picked away at. We'll see though. :salute:

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Because nothing says "aggression" like an NC that's backing up at a leisurely 7-8 kts while bow-on.

 

That won't change, as bow-on still presents the smallest profile. That NC will simply park further away from the fight.

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This is a massive nerf to my NorCar. Glad I have Bismarck now. 

 

NC will be buffed against a Bismarck, Tirptitz and Gneisenau now.

 

NC, while having thin armor, does have its citadel sit entirely below water, so it's better off than Iowa, which has its citadel sit very high out of water.

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I mean, at close range showing broadside to an Iowa is like 50-70k damage in a Montana or Yamato, in a Kurfürst it's like 20k damage.

 

i got it, im just messing with u

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This is not enough. Though removing this as a tactic is good, this further limits the already sparse defensive options ships get.

I have little hope that the new rudder shift mod will be a significant boost for defensive options, simply because of long turn radius.

What really needs to happen is an across the board nerf to offensive options. Namely how guns get buffed in basically every aspect per tier.

In the meantime defensive options don't rise nearly as much (armor or in the case of mobility regresses per tier.)

What needs to happen is maybe only buff one aspect of guns per tier. More guns on this ship than previous tier? Okay you don't also need pen, alpha, RoF, accuracy, sigma, range, and fire chance increased as well.

The fact that ships get all of that while in the meantime armor goes up incrementally and mobility gets worse is horrible.

It highly contributes to the camping as people become threats from much further away.

Say at tier 5, as soon as you are lit you may only have say two enemy CLs as a threat at 11km, inaccurate low(er) pen BBs at 16km who can only really roll for cits on a broadside hit, and one CA escorting them who is completely out of range and not a factor.

In tier 8 right when you get lit those same CAs are still there, except now count the extra CA at 16km as a threat, and BBs up to 19km who can roll for citadels on every hit.

There's a possibility you can push into the enemy at tier 5 exactly because you aren't yet pushing into the entire enemy team. With how damage is viable from so far out that is not the case in high tiers. And the primary reason for that are the potency of guns. We honestly need that nerfed. Hard.

 

Bow on addresses the unhistorical tactic that we've all been hating on but does not address camping. Until guns get nerfed enough that you can at least push again, that really won't change.

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This is only a good thing for the game as a whole.  Pointing your bow at the enemy to become immune to AP damage is and has always been a terrible game mechanic.

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NC will be buffed against a Bismarck, Tirptitz and Gneisenau now.

 

NC, while having thin armor, does have its citadel sit entirely below water, so it's better off than Iowa, which has its citadel sit very high out of water.

 

Those German BBs have good belt armor to fall back on.  NC, Iowa never had good belt armor.  NC as it stands now, will get lit-the-f***-up by 356mm gunfire to her sides.  With the changes she has no bow protection to fall back on, she is completely vulnerable.  Iowa is even worse.
Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I'm amused people think this is a great buff for the Montana. Bluntly put, it's not - it's mostly just a nerf to Yamato and a buff to Kurfurst. Does the Montana benefit? Yes, but the Kurfurst benefits far more, which likely just puts it in the top spot at T10, with Montana still languishing at the bottom. Why the hell WG thought Kurfurst needed a buff I have no clue - if they'd really wanted to buff Montana they could have just given it an exemption to the overmatch mechanics rather than reducing the armor value wholesale.

 

Don't believe me? Go look at the armor model for the Kurfurst (or the Friedrich to a lesser extent) and you'll see why. Unlike the US and IJN ships whose bows are one contiguous section of 32mm armor, and thus are getting wholesale impacted, the 32mm section being changed on the Kurfurst only represents an extremely small portion of the bow, with the rest being basically impenetrable from the front 60mm armor. Once you get to Bismarck and below that second armor section is low enough that they're mostly affected the same as their counterparts. Tirpitz really suffers since now she'll be penned from the front while her own guns still don't overmatch, and she doesn't have the plethora of additional bonuses (AA, Hydroacoustic) that Bismarck does. Moreover, Kurfurst and Friedrich captains can now stick with the 16" guns if they want due to them also being capable of overmatching - and hilariously enough the German 16" guns reload faster than the ones the US gets.

Edited by NozTheWhiteDawn

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I'm amused people think this is a great buff for the Montana. Bluntly put, it's not - it's mostly just a nerf to Yamato and a buff to Kurfurst. Does the Montana benefit? Yes, but the Kurfurst benefits far more, which likely just puts it in the top spot at T10, with Montana still languishing at the bottom. Why the hell WG thought Kurfurst needed a buff I have no clue - if they'd really wanted to buff Montana they could have just given it an exemption to the overmatch mechanics rather than reducing the armor value wholesale.

 

Don't believe me? Go look at the armor model for the Kurfurst (or the Friedrich to a lesser extent) and you'll see why. Unlike the US and IJN ships whose bows are one contiguous section of 32mm armor, and thus are getting wholesale impacted, the 32mm section being changed on the Kurfurst only represents an extremely small portion of the bow, with the rest being basically impenetrable from the front 60mm armor. Once you get to Bismarck and below that second armor section is low enough that they're mostly affected the same as their counterparts. Tirpitz really suffers since now she'll be penned from the front while her own guns still don't overmatch, and she doesn't have the plethora of additional bonuses (AA, Hydroacoustic) that Bismarck does. Moreover, Kurfurst and Friedrich captains can now stick with the 16" guns if they want due to them also being capable of overmatching - and hilariously enough the German 16" guns reload faster than the ones the US gets.

 

Actually being able to shoot back as you get torn apart seems like a pretty big buff.

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