Kaiser Devastating Strike- 1Torp

[SandraSmiles]

Took the Kaiser out this am...30 seconds into the match, I start the engines-

60 seconds into the match, TPs on the Horizon-

90 seconds into the match, Wyoming at 11 o'clock-

I begin to position while a squad drops torps at my 2 o'clock-

All torps scream ahead of my bow save one which seems to have struck the Fore Armor Belt-

Boom! Deleted!

One Torpedo taking down a full health Kaiser near the bow.

Write this down guys!

[Unabletony]

*writes

 

'German BBs do not like torps in their back holes or front holes...'

 

*scribbles

 

Got it~!

[Taichunger]

Detonations are completely ahistorical in this game. Better get used to how stupid this mechanic is. 

[Triela50]

Look on the bright side you got 10 free flags

[TenguBlade]

That area, depending on which side of the ship you got hit on, literally has a magazine right behind the main armor belt.  Why would you try to take a torpedo there?  You deserved the detonation for that.

[Taichunger]

That area, depending on which side of the ship you got hit on, literally has a magazine right behind the main armor belt.  Why would you try to take a torpedo there?  You deserved the detonation for that.

 

It's irrelevant where the torp hits, Tengu. You're completely wrong to chide him like that. The fact is, a torp can detonate you from any angle, at any point on the ship. This despite the fact that no modern BB has ever been detonated to destruction from a single torp. But we have detonations, because history. 

[ZombieFlanders]

Detonations are completely ahistorical in this game. Better get used to how stupid this mechanic is. 

 

while the workings of the mechanic are RNG based, detonations are not "ahistiorical". many ships were destroyed this way in both wars...queen mary and two other RN battlecruisers at jutland, hood, arizona got an AP bomb into a magazine.

 

the north carolina could have easily been lost when it was torpedoed by an IJN sub in 1942, if the torpedo hit a slightly different place there it would have been right against a magazine in a weak point in the torpedo defense system. also, look at HMS barham, it was torpedoed and blew up due to a mag detonation as it rolled over. 

 

 

[vak_]

This despite the fact that no BB has ever been detonated to destruction from a single torp. But we have detonations, because history. 

 

History, you say?

 

U.S.S. NORTH CAROLINA (BB55) TORPEDO DAMAGE

SOLOMON ISLANDS 15 SEPTEMBER 1942

 

V-D. Fire

 

V-D-1. No fires resulted from the explosion. A flash of flame was reported in Turret I handling room, in the access trunk leading from the handling room to the second and third decks, and in A-317T. A yellowish-brown smoke filled every open compartment between frames 37 and 71. Some observers reported the smoke to be light gray in color. Apparently the smoke came from the explosion. In most areas it was quickly dissipated when the exhaust blowers were started soon after Condition ZED was set. Smoke and a flash of flame were also reported to have been seen in A-310L. Fire was reported, but not confirmed, in the 16 in. powder magazines A-410M and A-506M. Both magazines were sprinkled immediately. After draining, no evidence of fire was found. When the remains of one man trapped in A-310L and three men in A-316T were removed, it was noted that all of their hair had been burned off.

The following is quoted from reference (a):

"Several competent observers reported a flash in Turret I's handling room and it is believed that with only the present protection a magazine explosion resulting from torpedoing is possible."

The following is quoted from reference (f):

"(e) Competent petty officers reported large flashes of flame in A-512-T, A-310-L and A-317-T. All of the hair* and some of the clothing had been burned off the men removed from the last two compartments."

and:

"2. In view of (e) above it is believed that had the torpedo struck at either frame 40 or frame 50 and the flash of flame entered magazines A-506-M and A-516-M instead of A-510-E and A-508-V it is possible that a magazine explosion would have resulted."

 

<...>

 

V-D-18. Summarizing, since the ship was not at General Quarters at the time of the attack, a flash would very likely not have ignited the tanked smokeless powder charges. The liquid layer should have prevented a powder magazine explosion caused by fragment attack. There exists the possibility that, had the powder bags been exposed, the black powder ignition charges might have been ignited by a flash, although there is no directly pertinent war experience supporting this possibility in ships having a fully developed torpedo protection system.

 

Full report: http://ibiblio.org/hyperwar/NHC/WarDamageReports/WarDamageReportBB55/WarDamageReportBB55.html

 

 

Just because none of the known single torpedo hits on BBs resulted in magazine explosion doesn't mean it couldn't happen -- such an event would have to be a fairly uncommon, much like it is in game.

[Raigir]

-snip-

although there is no directly pertinent war experience supporting this possibility in ships having a fully developed torpedo protection system.

-snip-

 

I can cherry pick too...hell I didn't even have to look that hard.

[vak_]

I can cherry pick too

 

Not to be mean, but you shouldn't use terms that you don't completely understand. Cherrypicking is biased sampling of a dataset, in order to falsely demonstrate a statistically significant trend.

 

What I did was provide reasonable evidence that BB magazine detonation due to single torpedo hits was a concern during wartime. Surely nobody here is hubristic enough to imagine that they know more about this matter than people that wrote the NC damage report?

[BlazerSparta]

That area, depending on which side of the ship you got hit on, literally has a magazine right behind the main armor belt.  Why would you try to take a torpedo there?  You deserved the detonation for that.

 

Because in 99 out of 100 times, taking one shot to the magazines is preferable to taking 2 to the engines, because there's less risk of damage AND flooding, even factoring in the 1% chance of a 1 hit kill.

 

[BlazerSparta]

Just because none of the known single torpedo hits on BBs resulted in magazine explosion doesn't mean it couldn't happen -- such an event would have to be a fairly uncommon, much like it is in game.

 

Except, this isn't entirely true.

 

There's one hugely important factor everyone seems to ignore when comparing the rate of real life detonations to in game detonations: Accuracy.

 

In game, accuracy is orders of magnitude greater than in real life.

 

Such a boost in accuracy should results in the number of magazine hits going up by an order of magnitude, and the number of resulting detonations also going up by an order of magnitude.

 

Yet, this is not so.

 

Why?

 

 

[vak_]

In game, accuracy is orders of magnitude greater than in real life. Such a boost in accuracy should results in the number of magazine hits going up by an order of magnitude, and the number of resulting detonations also going up by an order of magnitude.

 

Wait, you acknowledge that accuracy in the game is higher than in real life, yet it perplexes you why magazine detonations are less common than in real life?

 

As to "why" -- balance.

[BlazerSparta]

Wait, you acknowledge that accuracy in the game is higher than in real life, yet it perplexes you why magazine detonations are less common than in real life?

 

As to "why" -- balance.

 

I know exactly why.

 

Now, the question is, since detonations are unquestionably unrealistic already - AND YOU ACKNOWLEDGE IT - why do people bring realism up as a justification to why they should be in the game?

[Taichunger]

 

while the workings of the mechanic are RNG based, detonations are not "ahistiorical". many ships were destroyed this way in both wars...queen mary and two other RN battlecruisers at jutland, hood, arizona got an AP bomb into a magazine.

 

the north carolina could have easily been lost when it was torpedoed by an IJN sub in 1942, if the torpedo hit a slightly different place there it would have been right against a magazine in a weak point in the torpedo defense system. also, look at HMS barham, it was torpedoed and blew up due to a mag detonation as it rolled over. 

 

 

Sooooo tired of this. I wish people would read and study. Outside of the British battlecruisers, no ship has ever been detonated to destruction by a single shell to the magazine, except perhaps the Bretagne and that under unusual circumstances. This suggests that the WOWs shellfire det model is based on a historical anomaly, not history. if the Brits had designed and manned their Battlecruisers better, there'd be no support at all for the WOWs model. 

 

As for single torp hits on BBs causing dets, it never happened. The Barham was hit by multiple torps and detonated after rolling over. The Arizona was hit by a special weapon not represented in the game. The North Carolina maybe might have possibly coulda detonated. But it didn't.

 

But history....

 

[Raptor_alcor]

 

while the workings of the mechanic are RNG based, detonations are not "ahistiorical". many ships were destroyed this way in both wars...queen mary and two other RN battlecruisers at jutland, hood, arizona got an AP bomb into a magazine.

 

the north carolina could have easily been lost when it was torpedoed by an IJN sub in 1942, if the torpedo hit a slightly different place there it would have been right against a magazine in a weak point in the torpedo defense system. also, look at HMS barham, it was torpedoed and blew up due to a mag detonation as it rolled over. 

 

 

 

Not as many as you think, the detonation rate by ship basted objects (shells and torps, plus aerial torps, minus sub torps) are actually at a roughly .5% rate or less, add to the fact we have a historical precident of ships SURVIVING detonations, I ask you to meet, the USS new orleans: 

 

 It's bow got blown off in a magazine detonation, and made it home.