USN Battleship consumables

[Mechanicum]

Since the new German BBs get Hydroacustic Search starting at tier 8, would it not make sense to give the battleships of other nations similar consumables?

 

Here's what I am thinking:

USN: either Radar or Defensive Fire.  All USN BBs starting with the North Carolina Class were noted for having both of these features historically.

 

IJN: "Type 3 Shells".  Could be worked as per Defensive Fire, or alternatively these shells would give IJN battleships a very devastating single hit against all aircraft in a given area. This could come at the cost of resetting the main battery reload timer.

 

RN (planned): "Five Rounds Rapid". This would represent the Royal Navy's propensity to bypass safety procedures and allow for very fast reloads of main battery guns. It would, however, come with a cost of an increased risk of "detonation".

 

These don't seem too unreasonable for higher tier BBs...

[Aduial]

For the USN consumable, definitely no radar. It would make the game even harder for DD players, because now they have to worry about BBs carrying radar. 

As for the rest, i don't know. No consumables like that are currently in the game, and they might not fit well with the gameplay. 

[ckupf]

i'd rather seem them take HAS away from the German BBs than any of these be implemented. Although the RN one isn't so bad if you changed it to knocking out a gun permanently instead of detonation.

 

Then again I think their HAS should be removed irrespective of what's going on with the other classes.

 

After all DDs don't need more indirect nerfs, they are far less fun than they used to be. DD balance was achieved months ago.

[Stratego89]

No.

1. USN BBs already have the best AA there is. DF would be ridiculous and obscene.

2. Radar is better by far than Hydroacoustic.

3. The whole reason that HA is even on German BBs is because it fits their close quarters brawler style that puts them into positions where it would be useful and helps balance out their inferior guns and maneuverability/speed (save that one T7). Arbitrarily throwing something onto USN BBs because "it's not fair they get something shiny and we don't" is a terrible idea and would create nothing but imbalance. There's reasons and balance factors behind HA being on German BBs. There are no good reasons or balance factors to put extra consumables on USN BBs.

[Mechanicum]

For the USN consumable, definitely no radar. It would make the game even harder for DD players, because now they have to worry about BBs carrying radar. 

As for the rest, i don't know. No consumables like that are currently in the game, and they might not fit well with the gameplay. 

 

So, it's ok for German BBs to have HAS, but if USN BBs get Radar that's suddenly unbalancing?

 

i'd rather seem them take HAS away from the German BBs than any of these be implemented. Although the RN one isn't so bad if you changed it to knocking out a gun permanently instead of detonation.

 

Yeah, I don't really like the Germans having HAS either, but hey, they do...

 

No.

1. USN BBs already have the best AA there is. DF would be ridiculous and obscene.

2. Radar is better by far than Hydroacoustic.

3. The whole reason that HA is even on German BBs is because it fits their close quarters brawler style that puts them into positions where it would be useful and helps balance out their inferior guns and maneuverability/speed (save that one T7). Arbitrarily throwing something onto USN BBs because "it's not fair they get something shiny and we don't" is a terrible idea and would create nothing but imbalance. There's reasons and balance factors behind HA being on German BBs. There are no good reasons or balance factors to put extra consumables on USN BBs.

 

1) I agree that USN AA is pretty damn good, but this was kinda the USN's thing. For all extents, a North Carolina or Iowa pretty much has an Atlanta strapped to it, but can't evaporate airplanes nearly as fast, which I find odd.

2) Not really.  It has longer range, but can't detect torpedoes. I'd say it's neither better nor worse, just different.

3) The German BBs didn't need HAS to help be brawlers.  They already have pretty much the best secondaries, and toughest citadels in the game, which is what you need to be a brawler.  No, HAS is specifically designed to counter smoke and torpedoes, neither of which are mounted on battleships (other than torpedoes on the Twins and Dirpitz), so why do the German BBs need it to brawl?

 

[Stratego89]

 

So, it's ok for German BBs to have HAS, but if USN BBs get Radar that's suddenly unbalancing?

 

 

Yeah, I don't really like the Germans having HAS either, but hey, they do...

 

 

1) I agree that USN AA is pretty damn good, but this was kinda the USN's thing. For all extents, a North Carolina or Iowa pretty much has an Atlanta strapped to it, but can't evaporate airplanes nearly as fast, which I find odd.

2) Not really.  It has longer range, but can't detect torpedoes. I'd say it's neither better nor worse, just different.

3) The German BBs didn't need HAS to help be brawlers.  They already have pretty much the best secondaries, and toughest citadels in the game, which is what you need to be a brawler.  No, HAS is specifically designed to counter smoke and torpedoes, neither of which are mounted on battleships (other than torpedoes on the Twins and Dirpitz), so why do the German BBs need it to brawl?

 

1. It's not odd- it's because of the DEFENSIVE FIRE you are asking to add to make your pretty USN BBs OP.

2. Yes, really. Seeing torpedoes doesn't matter when you can kill the SOB that's going to throw them at you- which radar allows you to do MUCH better than HA does. HA is literally a less-good version of Radar, and nothing more. That's why CAs/CLs are going to be able to use it and DF at the same time but not Radar and DF at the same time. Even wargaming acknowledges it's just a worse version of radar. End of discussion.

3. Need? No- but it HELPS a LOT and it FITS the theme. What you're asking for is nothing more than arbitrary additions because you're salty that your personal choice of ship didn't get something shiny too- because it doesn't need it.

 

Are you f-ing serious dude? "HAS is used to counter smoke and torpedoes- which BBs don't have- so why would you need them to brawl". That's gotta be the dumbest thing I've seen someone say all week. Tell me genius- what happens when you get into brawling range among the enemy front flanks. What is the FIRST DAMN THING you run into when you move up into enemy territory? That's right. DDs. AND DDs USE SMOKE AND TORPEDOES.

[Sub_Octavian]

US BBs have extremely effecient emergency crew consumable. This is it.

Also, German BBs lack maneuvrability and anti-torpedo protection. And they are designed for close quarter combat, so they do need this buff.
We don't mind giving unique consumables from time to time, but we don't want it to be the only way of balancing stuff in the game.
Cheers.

[Mechanicum]

1. It's not odd- it's because of the DEFENSIVE FIRE you are asking to add to make your pretty USN BBs OP.

 

Hardly. Even with defensive fire, USN BBs would still be vulnerable to their usual predators: IJN BBs and DDs.

As I said before, the typical high tier USN BB carries as much secondary firepower as strapping on an Atlanta.  USN secondaries are vastly under-powered (both in range and damage) compared to their counterparts in other trees, so this would actually go a long way to addressing that.  

 

2. Yes, really. Seeing torpedoes doesn't matter when you can kill the SOB that's going to throw them at you- which radar allows you to do MUCH better than HA does. HA is literally a less-good version of Radar, and nothing more. That's why CAs/CLs are going to be able to use it and DF at the same time but not Radar and DF at the same time. Even wargaming acknowledges it's just a worse version of radar. End of discussion.

 

Radar is still of limited range, which most DDs can avoid if needed.  The main advantage Radar gives is when a DD smokes up, right?  The DD can still launch torps from outside your radar range.

Sorry, not really seeing the problem here.

 

3. Need? No- but it HELPS a LOT and it FITS the theme. What you're asking for is nothing more than arbitrary additions because you're salty that your personal choice of ship didn't get something shiny too- because it doesn't need it.

 

If you're going to argue "theme" then you actually are arguing FOR my suggested changes.

USN had radar and the best AA ever.

IJN had some oddball equipment.

RN had some dubious but effective gunnery practices.

These aren't "arbitrary" at all, but actually carefully thought out to fit the theme of each navy.  They correspond with the historical practices of the ships, and don't over-balance gameplay.

[Mechanicum]

US BBs have extremely effecient emergency crew consumable. This is it.

 

Sorry Sub, but could you clarify what you mean by this?

 

Also, German BBs lack maneuvrability and anti-torpedo protection. And they are designed for close quarter combat, so they do need this buff.

 

USN BBs are pretty slow to turn too.  Iowa for example has an AWFUL rudder shift time.

And the German BBs can do close quarter combat without HAS.  Their massively powerful secondaries handle that quite well.

In fact I would argue that a Bismark's secondaries are superior both in range and power to a Yamato's. I can't even get remotely close to a Bismark in my North Carolina without his secondaries ripping me apart.

 

[Sub_Octavian]

Sorry Sub, but could you clarify what you mean by this?

 

 

USN BBs are pretty slow to turn too.  Iowa for example has an AWFUL rudder shift time.

And the German BBs can do close quarter combat without HAS.  Their massively powerful secondaries handle that quite well.

In fact I would argue that a Bismark's secondaries are superior both in range and power to a Yamato's. I can't even get remotely close to a Bismark in my North Carolina without his secondaries ripping me apart.

I mean their R-consumable works longer.

 

I doubt German BBs are OP, honestly. But we will see it in some time, when adequate server stats for high tiers are gathered.

[Mechanicum]

Watch the German secondaries in this video, and tell me that's not a bit excessive 

 

 

 

 

[Aduial]

So, it's ok for German BBs to have HAS, but if USN BBs get Radar that's suddenly unbalancing?

 

There is a huge difference between the range of radar and HAS. The best radar does something like 11km (?) and the best Hydro does something like 6km. While you can effectively torp from outside hydro range, and not be in immediate danger, radar makes a ship completely invulnerable to DDs during the time that it's active, because torps from outside 10km almost never hit. So yes, it's unbalancing. 

Personally, i thought it was a bad idea for German BBs to get HAS as well, as a side note. BBs are countered by DDs, so why should they get tools made specifically to counter their own counters? <-Irony/contradictory design. 

[Mechanicum]

There is a huge difference between the range of radar and HAS. The best radar does something like 11km (?) and the best Hydro does something like 6km. While you can effectively torp from outside hydro range, and not be in immediate danger, radar makes a ship completely invulnerable to DDs during the time that it's active, because torps from outside 10km almost never hit. So yes, it's unbalancing. 

 

I would be perfectly fine with a reduced radar range (say, matching the 6km range of Hydro?).  Just because they have radar doesn't mean they have the "best" radar.

 

If you really don't like this though, that still leaves the "defensive fire" setup, which for the USN makes a lot of sense.  USN BBs set records in WWII for the number of air kills scored by any warship, and in fact this was a MAJOR feature of their design.  USS South Dakota in particular scored over twenty air kills at the Battle of Santa Cruz, while North Carolina at the Battle of the Eastern Solomons threw up so much anti-air fire that Enterprise actually asked if she was on fire.

 

In the post battle reports, North Carolina's crew "...estimated that the rate of fire exceeded 17 rounds per minute on all guns..." which was above the nominal 15 rounds per minute for the 5"/38 gun.

 

Personally, i thought it was a bad idea for German BBs to get HAS as well, as a side note. BBs are countered by DDs, so why should they get tools made specifically to counter their own counters? <-Irony/contradictory design. 

 

I actually agree with this, but was working under the assumption that the developers would not strip something away.

 

[Teahee]

I wouldn't mind a IJN BB consumable that improves secondary guns for a period of time, e.g. 

 

• Active for 40 seconds
• Improves secondary RoF by - 20%
• Improves secondary accuracy by 20%
• Takes 4 minutes to cool-down 
• While consumable is active, AA DPS is halved 

[pewpewpew42]

Just throw on a catapult fighter or something. Not too OP yet still meaningful.

[Stardin]

The only thing all BB's need is increased range on their secondary armament.  Most of the weapons used as secondary are those used on tier one and two as main weapons.  That said:  I know it will never happen because, DD and cruisers wouldn't stand a chance in a brawl.  The real world reality would never have the ships getting that close in the first place until the main guns were knocked out.  And if WoW did buff the secondaries, they would have to increase the time it took to repair the damage to main guns.

[the_majestic_eagle]

Guys the other trees DON'T need any other consumables, the reason that German bbs get hydro is because they are absolutely massive with the torp protection of a damn T5 bb, honestly the kurfurst is even bigger then the Yamato (and not even by a small amount either) but has THE WORST TORP PROTECTION ON A BB FOR HER TIER, and the biggest turning radius. Seeing the torps from 6km out at least give them a fighting chance of dodging torps, if they didn't have hydro, and saw the torps coming from 2km away (I'm using Shima as an example) then that massive turning radius would prevent them from effectively dodging the incoming fishes. It helps make the German bbs competitive given all their weaknesses (THE ONLY EXCEPTION HERE IS THE BISMARCK AS SHE IS BASICALLY A TIRPIZ WITH HYDRO AND BETTER SECONDARIES AS "COMPENSATION" FOR THEIR LACK OF STEEL FISHES)

[Aduial]

(THE ONLY EXCEPTION HERE IS THE BISMARCK AS SHE IS BASICALLY A TIRPIZ WITH HYDRO AND BETTER SECONDARIES AS "COMPENSATION" FOR THEIR LACK OF STEEL FISHES)

 

Yeah, i seriously doubt that the Bismarck needs hydro. 

[the_majestic_eagle]

 

Yeah, i seriously doubt that the Bismarck needs hydro. 

 

it's really only there to make her a decent competitor to her sister ship (WG going for the unique, not op premiums) which personally I do agree that she is great already with her great secondaries but I guess WG wasn't convinced 

[TenguBlade]

Yeah, i seriously doubt that the Bismarck needs hydro. 

I honestly think she's the most OP of the Germans because of it.  She doesn't need it, but Friedrich Der Grosse and Grosser Kurfurst are so giant (and, more importantly, don't see the likes of the Mutsucki and Farragut - i.e. the higher-tier ones  encounter only invisi-torping American DDs) that not having it is inviting more torp whine threads.

[Tedster_]

I mean their R-consumable works longer.

 

In many cases, this simply results in the downside of making the cooldown last longer after the effect has stopped being useful.  I personally would prefer the cruiser-style damage control party Warspite has on my US BB's.

[YamatoA150]

USN BBs should go ahead and get BOTH AADF and Radar, with AADF available starting at T5 (except Texas) and Radar at T7, so that they could spec up for secondaries or main guns via modules if they choose so, or become an invincible wall to aircraft if they choose to spec as such.  This also has the side advantage of allowing them to earn more XP/Credits from the eventual spotting and AA support rewards WG is planning to introduce (alongside tanking, team damage to designated targets, etc).

 

IJN BBs just need a secondary equivalent of AADF at T5 onwards; aka Secondary Defensive Fire, which temporarily increases range (+4km), accuracy (+25%), and RoF (+25%) for 30-45 seconds.  Standard 2 minute CD on regular and whatever it is for Premium.  It would slot in well with existing builds (notably Nagato, Amagi, Izumo, and Yamato but also on Kongou and Fuso) without stepping onto KM BB territory and their always-on slightly longer ranged secondaries.  And meant more to temporarily ward off torpedo runs from cruisers or DDs.  Naturally, it could be baited prematurely, the same way CVs have most learned to bait premature AADF use.

 

I'm fine with OP's RN BB consumable suggestion though, it would make up for anemic traverse or low speeds in the middle to upper tiers, and give them a short DPS advantage in down-to-the-wire duels (with the increased risk of being Detonated the balancer).  It would make the RN T10 BB a force for sure, what with at least 2-3 possible designs having 9x 457mm (18" even) guns.

[Mechanicum]

Granted a low number of responses, but it sounds like players may enjoy the following consumables on high tier BBs...

 

USN: AA buffing ("Defensive Fire")

IJN: Secondary buffing

KM: Hydro search

RN: Main battery buffing

 

These actually all correspond with what the ships were known for historically, and aren't too unbalancing in and of themselves.

 

I would be very curious to see how these tested out...

[Ajatcho]

well if USN BB's get defensive fire no longer the need to make AA build (though you could it would just zap those pesky flies in an instant )

[Mechanicum]

well if USN BB's get defensive fire no longer the need to make AA build (though you could it would just zap those pesky flies in an instant )

 

Nah, you'd still want the AA build for when on cool-down etc...