73 [G-REB] 1HandTiedBehindMyBack [G-REB] Beta Testers 358 posts 14,827 battles Report post #1 Posted September 7, 2016 Carriers are just the worst part of a retarded BIAS vs everything US, hell you would think we lost the war. Funny the RU navy that couldn't even go "blue" are all paper super OP [edited]. But no single aspect shows how retarded the game design is like high tier carriers. US carriers have been nerfed to point of being pointless, if you get stuck with US vs IJN its game over unless the IJN is a total idiot. Even if the US goes anti air they still can't stop all the IJN planes and then they get a useless strike option. Counter this with IJN getting solid fighters for every load out, and small squadrons giving them way faster service times and faster speed and nothing can stop them. WHY the hell can't the US have the best of anything in this game, its not like they had a navy so big in this time frame that they had more ships then the rest of the world combined! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,849 [AXANR] poeticmotion Members 3,650 posts 23,502 battles Report post #2 Posted September 7, 2016 WHY the hell can't the US have the best of anything in this game My USN DDs would like to speak with you out in the hallway. 27 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3,513 atPrick__ Members 16,315 posts 12,285 battles Report post #3 Posted September 7, 2016 Carriers are just the worst part of a retarded BIAS vs everything US, hell you would think we lost the war. Funny the RU navy that couldn't even go "blue" are all paper super OP [edited]. But no single aspect shows how retarded the game design is like high tier carriers. US carriers have been nerfed to point of being pointless, if you get stuck with US vs IJN its game over unless the IJN is a total idiot. Even if the US goes anti air they still can't stop all the IJN planes and then they get a useless strike option. Counter this with IJN getting solid fighters for every load out, and small squadrons giving them way faster service times and faster speed and nothing can stop them. WHY the hell can't the US have the best of anything in this game, its not like they had a navy so big in this time frame that they had more ships then the rest of the world combined! 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
771 klymar8 ∞ Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters 4,191 posts 12,721 battles Report post #4 Posted September 7, 2016 Carriers are just the worst part of a retarded BIAS vs everything US, hell you would think we lost the war. Funny the RU navy that couldn't even go "blue" are all paper super OP [edited]. But no single aspect shows how retarded the game design is like high tier carriers. US carriers have been nerfed to point of being pointless, if you get stuck with US vs IJN its game over unless the IJN is a total idiot. Even if the US goes anti air they still can't stop all the IJN planes and then they get a useless strike option. Counter this with IJN getting solid fighters for every load out, and small squadrons giving them way faster service times and faster speed and nothing can stop them. WHY the hell can't the US have the best of anything in this game, its not like they had a navy so big in this time frame that they had more ships then the rest of the world combined! " Don't be angry . Just leave . " Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
378 [JKSDF] Sturmkurz [JKSDF] Members 1,603 posts 2,495 battles Report post #5 Posted September 7, 2016 Ahh yess, other thread about Murica isn't kicking [edited]. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,596 [-KIA-] TenguBlade Banned 9,382 posts 28,311 battles Report post #6 Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) WHY the hell can't the US have the best of anything in this game, its not like they had a navy so big in this time frame that they had more ships then the rest of the world combined! Irrelevant in the context of a game where each ship is compared and balanced on a one-to-one basis. The devs have said it themselves: they're not happy with how the USN CAs and CVs are stacking up either. Until they fix it, you can either grind another line (not like we don't have another whole and two half-complete national tech trees already), suck it up if you're masochistic, or leave. Edited September 7, 2016 by TenguBlade Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
11 [NEXFL] Hubes_Nexus Members 125 posts 3,260 battles Report post #7 Posted September 7, 2016 Carriers are just the worst part of a retarded BIAS vs everything US, hell you would think we lost the war. Funny the RU navy that couldn't even go "blue" are all paper super OP [edited]. But no single aspect shows how retarded the game design is like high tier carriers. US carriers have been nerfed to point of being pointless, if you get stuck with US vs IJN its game over unless the IJN is a total idiot. Even if the US goes anti air they still can't stop all the IJN planes and then they get a useless strike option. Counter this with IJN getting solid fighters for every load out, and small squadrons giving them way faster service times and faster speed and nothing can stop them. WHY the hell can't the US have the best of anything in this game, its not like they had a navy so big in this time frame that they had more ships then the rest of the world combined! I was in the match that likely prompted this (in a Fletcher), and I was harassed by the enemy Taiho relentlessly throughout the match. I would have died much earlier had I not been able to turn into as many torp drops as I did and hit them before they armed. As is the Taiho had 5 kills, 36 plane kills, and carried the day. Yes our USN CV was outmatched, but he was also heavily outskilled...I had to praise the Taiho's tenacity at the end when he finally killed me off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
853 Xero_Snake Members 5,165 posts 60 battles Report post #8 Posted September 7, 2016 The world is not a small place, sir. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
797 [PSV] Personator Privateers 5,523 posts 6,129 battles Report post #9 Posted September 7, 2016 Even if the US goes anti air they still can't stop all the IJN planes and then they get a useless strike option. My Langley and Independence would like to object Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3,186 BlazerSparta Members 11,026 posts 30,665 battles Report post #10 Posted September 7, 2016 USN in real life was powerful due to logistics and technology, particularly in fire control and damage control. Logistics is irrelevant in this game, fire control is so abstracted from real life that the crappiest T1 fire control is an order of magnitude superior to Iowa's real life FCS, and damage control is likewise abstracted for gameplay in a way that removes much of the advantage USN enjoyed. What's left over isn't particularly impressive, especially when you consider USN cut back on other aspects of ship design to allow their advantages to compensate: the most common example being switching to lower velocity shells because of better FCS. USN is not the only faction screwed by game abstractions of real life. German BBs with their excellent citadel protection are shafted, in a sense, that their good armour translates to taking massive normal pen damage, reducing survivability while the design in real life would have withstood (and did withstand) monstrous amounts of shellfire. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
440 [BLKHS] 11thACRColdsteel Beta Testers 1,612 posts 8,174 battles Report post #11 Posted September 7, 2016 As a wise clanmate of mine once pontificated: "If you can't beat it, buy it.....it's a GAME....." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
516 [HEROS] UrPeaceKeeper -Members- 1,462 posts 5,897 battles Report post #12 Posted September 7, 2016 My USN DDs would like to speak with you out in the hallway. The stats disagree with this... just did this in the long IJN DD thread in the General Discussion. The only thing the USN DD's best their counterparts at is AA kills but just barely... otherwise they are decidedly average. Not "good" at any one thing but not overly bad either. Even the vaunted Fletcher does less than the Udaloi in damage and has a worse win rate. The Kagero is horrible though... it needs attention, bad. That said... USN BB's and Cruisers need some attention. The BB's no longer dominate the AA game or the brawling game. Their mid range accuracy is absolute trash compared to even some of the German BB's. They can't even make the same claim that the USN DD's can... they are the bottom of the heap in damage in all the tiers except T4 and T9... and by smaller margins than the IJN bests them... and by a lot compared to the Germans. Their win rates are still lower than their counterparts but are at least relatively close. USN CL's and CA's are in a really tough spot... the Cleveland is the only gem of the line... the Phoenix and Omaha were amazing but were hit hard with the BFT/AFT nerfs. St Louis is still powerful, but T3... so "meh". The reality is there were things the USN used heavily that are disadvantages in this game: -Heavy shells with low velocities to penetrate deck armor -Radar FCS for both primary, secondary and anti-aircraft armament -Extensive use of STS armor for structural support -Advanced armor layouts designed to mitigate damage to critical components -Advanced DCS systems and control And so on... few of those are treated correctly in game... some are downright disadvantageous by virtue of the game mechanics. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,852 Madwolf05 ∞ Alpha Tester 7,170 posts 4,070 battles Report post #13 Posted September 7, 2016 Irrelevant in the context of a game where each ship is compared and balanced on a one-to-one basis. The devs have said it themselves: they're not happy with how the USN CAs and CVs are stacking up either. Until they fix it, you can either grind another line (not like we don't have another whole and two half-complete national tech trees already), suck it up if you're masochistic, or leave. Actually more recently they said they though the USN cruisers where in a good spot. And they buffed USN CV fighters loadout in 5.11. They're not interested in making the USN anything better than the average bottom feeder. I think it's time we just accept that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
707 Sink_Stuff Beta Testers 1,971 posts 13,729 battles Report post #14 Posted September 7, 2016 What happened to the blond anime avatar? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
516 [HEROS] UrPeaceKeeper -Members- 1,462 posts 5,897 battles Report post #15 Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) USN in real life was powerful due to logistics and technology, particularly in fire control and damage control. Logistics is irrelevant in this game, fire control is so abstracted from real life that the crappiest T1 fire control is an order of magnitude superior to Iowa's real life FCS, and damage control is likewise abstracted for gameplay in a way that removes much of the advantage USN enjoyed. What's left over isn't particularly impressive, especially when you consider USN cut back on other aspects of ship design to allow their advantages to compensate: the most common example being switching to lower velocity shells because of better FCS. USN is not the only faction screwed by game abstractions of real life. German BBs with their excellent citadel protection are shafted, in a sense, that their good armour translates to taking massive normal pen damage, reducing survivability while the design in real life would have withstood (and did withstand) monstrous amounts of shellfire. So SHS technology is a "cut back" because of other advantages? No.... SHS was designed specifically for the type of warfare the USN expected.... long range, protracted engagements between capital ships and support ships. In doing so they enabled the shells to penetrate the deck far easier than the lighter flatter shooting shells do and it was far easier to penetrate deck armor at the ranges the USN expected to fight at. This is outlined in the immunity zones of the ships... It had little to do with cutting ANYTHING back. If anything it was a massive advantage because they gave up little in close range engagements and gained A LOT in long range engagements. EDIT: And you are right, the USN isn't the only faction screwed by in game mechanics, they just happen to be the one MOST punished by them. Edited September 7, 2016 by UrPeaceKeeper 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
853 Xero_Snake Members 5,165 posts 60 battles Report post #16 Posted September 7, 2016 What happened to the blond anime avatar? Yeah, what happened to Atago? I love it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,596 [-KIA-] TenguBlade Banned 9,382 posts 28,311 battles Report post #17 Posted September 7, 2016 Actually more recently they said they though the USN cruisers where in a good spot. I'm pretty sure that was DDs. There's been a number of dev posts about buffing at least the Baltimore.- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5,644 [O7] 1nv4d3rZ1m Alpha Tester, Alpha Tester 12,147 posts 9,111 battles Report post #18 Posted September 7, 2016 Just play VMF ships, they get a better definition of balance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,367 [HINON] Captain_Dorja [HINON] Beta Testers 5,913 posts 5,645 battles Report post #19 Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) Ah it's BloodravenTS is back. Why don't some people ever stay dead? Edited September 7, 2016 by Captain_Dorja Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3,513 atPrick__ Members 16,315 posts 12,285 battles Report post #20 Posted September 7, 2016 Rounne, on 07 September 2016 - 09:18 AM, said: What happened to the blond anime avatar? Yeah, what happened to Atago? I love it. Not my thing, was bored and thought it was fitting because of the poi poi poi madness yesterday. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
295 [BONKZ] Amogussy Members 887 posts 11,695 battles Report post #21 Posted September 7, 2016 Ah yes, another thread about how the USN is not dominating in game like how it did in the final year of WW2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
516 [HEROS] UrPeaceKeeper -Members- 1,462 posts 5,897 battles Report post #22 Posted September 7, 2016 Not my thing, was bored and thought it was fitting because of the poi poi poi madness yesterday. Banzai!!!! If you think the poi poi poi madness is bad now... it's only going to be worse when people can actually play her! LOL. Terror of the Solomons here we go! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3,186 BlazerSparta Members 11,026 posts 30,665 battles Report post #23 Posted September 7, 2016 EDIT: And you are right, the USN isn't the only faction screwed by in game mechanics, they just happen to be the one MOST punished by them. USN is shafted the most because USN focus on what amounts to "support" systems like damage control and fire control. That works great for real life, but when you abstract tat to a game where 90% of the functions those support systems performed are handled with perfect performance by the game engine, all those advantages go poof, and ships that emphasized hard stats become the stars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
516 [HEROS] UrPeaceKeeper -Members- 1,462 posts 5,897 battles Report post #24 Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) USN is shafted the most because USN focus on what amounts to "support" systems like damage control and fire control. That works great for real life, but when you abstract tat to a game where 90% of the functions those support systems performed are handled with perfect performance by the game engine, all those advantages go poof, and ships that emphasized hard stats become the stars. The Mark 8 disagrees with you... 95% the penetration of the Yamato 18.1" AP shells in real life... in game... not so much. 12k dmg difference between the 12 gun Montana and the 9 gun Yamato. "Balance" right? There is nothing balanced about the Mark 8 penetration values... they simply DON'T penetrate as they did in real life and there is no game balance reason why they shouldn't... so much for "emphasis on hard stats become the rock stars". Edited September 7, 2016 by UrPeaceKeeper 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,425 [0456] _ENO_ Members 3,945 posts 10,545 battles Report post #25 Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) People need to stop looking at this as some historical reference in any respect other than the appearance of the ships and start understanding that it's about gameplay and balance. The world just gets sick of threads like this. Think a line or country is OP- then [edited]grind it and enjoy. Otherwise shut the [edited]up. Edited September 7, 2016 by ENO75 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
