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Terrible_Turtle

T10 Carrier Disparity

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CVs seem to be a tug-of-war fight. One patch makes USN better, next one buffs IJN or nerfs USN, and so on.

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Interesting that survival rates are so close. 

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Interesting that survival rates are so close. 

 

People fail to realize that ship survivability in a CV is absolutely meaningless besides just losing a boat load more credits if you get sunk. 

 

In the CV world, running out of planes is equivalent to running out of HP in any other ship. 

 

E.g. a Nagato with 30% HP is equivalent to a Hiryu with about 22 planes left. One with 10% HP is like a Hiryu with 7 planes left. 

 

Just as a BB with 10% HP is pretty much nearing uselessness (e.g. it will not be able to do much say against acolorado with 50% HP), same with CV.

 

A CV without planes is like Ognevoi with both turrets destroyed. All they can do at that point is cap and spot. 

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I don't play CVs... but that's pretty sad. Sample size is roughly equivalent. 

 

doou64W.png

3al0Tdx.jpg

 

Well my Midway has more wins, more average kills, almost 50% more average damage, and more average exp. But hey, Mike Huntz

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Well my Midway has more wins, more average kills, almost 50% more average damage, and more average exp. But hey, Mike Huntz

 

Since CBT-OBT, i'll take the time to update you to what the current situation is that you've missed out on.

-It may be news to you, it may not be, but CV's now have forced MM with an opponent. An equal tier opponent at that. 

-Jets are gone!

-You can no longer division with another CV

-Essex and Midway CV's no longer have multiple torpedo bombers, replaced with 1000 pound bombers.

-Hakuryu no longer has 5 torpedo bombers...

-AA consumable now causes panic

-AA for all ships upgraded

-Many many more things I can't remember

 

Also now in T10 you often get actual T10 opponents as compared to being the strongest ship in the match "The very first person to get the Essex in CBT & First Tier X in OBT"

 

But in all seriousness, test the current patch and let us know which ship is best, and try have a Solo game once in a while, improve that WTR!

Hakuryu- 

100.00% 68,342 1,852 1.0 9.0 100% 0% 0% 890

Midway-

0.00% 93,468 2,258 3.0 3.0 29.0 0% 0% 0% 894

Edit:

At a guess, bots average 44-48% win rates. It is pretty sad when the average Midway is equivalent to a potato with 44.97%.

I don't play CVs... but that's pretty sad. Sample size is roughly equivalent. 

Edited by salival007

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As has been pointed out (and apparently forgotten) many times, WR for CVs only indicates that Hakuryu beats the crap out of Midway when they meet. Every Midway-Midway and Hakuryu-Hakuryu match results in a 50% WR for the ship, no matter who wins. You cannot use it to compare against the WRs of other ships.

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3al0Tdx.jpg

 

Well my Midway has more wins, more average kills, almost 50% more average damage, and more average exp. But hey, Mike Huntz

 

What loadouts are you using on Hakuryu and Midway?

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I don't play CVs... but that's pretty sad. Sample size is roughly equivalent. 

 

doou64W.png

When the Brand new Tier 10 German BB Grosser Kurfurst (Which has been out for a week) has more games played than either Hakuruyu or Midway have and the have been available since Closed Beta (I Remember when the Haku and IJN carriers where first introduced and the Haku had a 0/4/4 load out that literally [edited] everything even DD's cause lol 4 TB squads Quad-Cross drop thats impossible to dodge XD) I Remeber when all the USN CV's even Langley had 2 TB Squads (That was back in Alpha when their where no American BB's and only IJN BB's.)

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When the Brand new Tier 10 German BB Grosser Kurfurst (Which has been out for a week) has more games played than either Hakuruyu or Midway have and the have been available since Closed Beta (I Remember when the Haku and IJN carriers where first introduced and the Haku had a 0/4/4 load out that literally [edited] everything even DD's cause lol 4 TB squads Quad-Cross drop thats impossible to dodge XD) I Remeber when all the USN CV's even Langley had 2 TB Squads (That was back in Alpha when their where no American BB's and only IJN BB's.)

 

I remember it having 0/5/3. OBT

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Since CBT-OBT, i'll take the time to update you to what the current situation is that you've missed out on.

-It may be news to you, it may not be, but CV's now have forced MM with an opponent. An equal tier opponent at that. 

-Jets are gone!

-You can no longer division with another CV

-Essex and Midway CV's no longer have multiple torpedo bombers, replaced with 1000 pound bombers.

-Hakuryu no longer has 5 torpedo bombers...

-AA consumable now causes panic

-AA for all ships upgraded

-Many many more things I can't remember

 

Also now in T10 you often get actual T10 opponents as compared to being the strongest ship in the match "The very first person to get the Essex in CBT & First Tier X in OBT"

 

But in all seriousness, test the current patch and let us know which ship is best, and try have a Solo game once in a while, improve that WTR!

Hakuryu- 

100.00% 68,342 1,852 1.0 9.0 100% 0% 0% 890

Midway-

0.00% 93,468 2,258 3.0 3.0 29.0 0% 0% 0% 894

Edit:

At a guess, bots average 44-48% win rates. It is pretty sad when the average Midway is equivalent to a potato with 44.97%.

 

-Those stats were all post CBT and OBT.

-I am the reason you cant division with other CV's anymore, thats old news by far

-I was the first Tier X CV in NA after release

-Haku hasnt had 5 TB since OBT, I usually ran 4/2/2 and still had that damage

-I was around for the forced MM of CV's and i remember the queue's especially once ppl found out when I was in queue

-AA skill always caused panic

-I used to sink Des Moines so I know what strong AA is and I know what its like now.

-after forced MM I was never the only Tier X CV in a match. If they didnt have forced MM and 3 CV max per side like in CBT, you should ahve seen my stats then. My I remember fighting 1 vs 3 CV's all of us Lexington(IJN wasnt out yet) and still winning.

 

(I could play but my work wont allow time for it. Ironic that I'm still considered super unicum though. I guess no-one learned any new CV tricks while I was gone, makes me wonder if anyone in NA really tried to create tactics of their own or just follow me.)

 

Edited by Systemrename33576

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-Those stats were all post CBT and OBT.

-I am the reason you cant division with other CV's anymore, thats old news by far

-I was the first Tier X CV in NA after release

-Haku hasnt had 5 TB since OBT, I usually ran 4/2/2 and still had that damage

-I was around for the forced MM of CV's and i remember the queue's especially once ppl found out when I was in queue

-AA skill always caused panic

-I used to sink Des Moines so I know what strong AA is and I know what its like now.

-after forced MM I was never the only Tier X CV in a match. If they didnt have forced MM and 3 CV max per side like in CBT, you should ahve seen my stats then. My I remember fighting 1 vs 3 CV's all of us Lexington(IJN wasnt out yet) and still winning.

 

(I could play but my work wont allow time for it. Ironic that I'm still considered super unicum though. I guess no-one learned any new CV tricks while I was gone, makes me wonder if anyone in NA really tried to create tactics of their own or just follow me.)

 

 

Remember CV_Enterprise? Not the greatest player like yourself, but he played in a time when CV's were kings. I'll link you who I believe is his name now which is funny.

https://na.warships.today/player/1012645597/CV_Useless

Stats taken of his 3 man pre-made stats, I would say it looks a lot harder now to be good in a Midway than in other times, and notice how a new player has to compete with old players WTR, and as this picture shows from his ALL TIME stats it was a very ripe harvest back in the earlier days.

CV_s_Past_and_Present.png

 

 

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Remember CV_Enterprise? Not the greatest player like yourself, but he played in a time when CV's were kings. I'll link you who I believe is his name now which is funny.

https://na.warships.today/player/1012645597/CV_Useless

Stats taken of his 3 man pre-made stats, I would say it looks a lot harder now to be good in a Midway than in other times, and notice how a new player has to compete with old players WTR, and as this picture shows from his ALL TIME stats it was a very ripe harvest back in the earlier days.

CV_s_Past_and_Present.png

 

 

 

Which makes sense since he used to queue dodge me all the time and then he just started playing after midnight so noone else would be on so he wasnt exactly all that good to begin with.

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3al0Tdx.jpg

 

Well my Midway has more wins, more average kills, almost 50% more average damage, and more average exp. But hey, Mike Huntz

 

Wait, my brain is being super lazy at this hour of the night. But are you saying that you are Mike Huntz?

 

Edit: Ok it turns out you are. Good to have your input on CV discussions. 

 

Note that Midway 2x TB squads were OP, able to one shot full health BBs. 2x TB loadouts were removed in 0.5.3 and since that infamous day, Midway has lost its seat on the Throne as King of CVs. That seat now belongs to the Hakuryu and Taiho. Since 0.5.3 Midway avg dmg has been falling. Only reason Midway averages are so high still is because of how OP it was pre 0.5.3. Its gonna take a long time for stats to reflext the nerf. 

 

But 2 week stats tell you all you need to know about the current IJN vs USN carrier imbalance. 

 

But not worries. WG knows the issue and intemds to fix it. By buffing USN fighters...lol ;)

Edited by lord_of_storms

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Note that Midway 2x TB squads were OP, able to one shot full health BBs. 2x TB loadouts were removed in 0.5.3 and since that infamous day, Midway has lost its seat on the Throne as King of CVs. That seat now belongs to the Hakuryu and Taiho. Since 0.5.3 Midway avg dmg has been falling. Only reason Midway averages are so high still is because of how OP it was pre 0.5.3. Its gonna take a long time for stats to reflext the nerf. 

 

Don't know if I would have called it OP back then. Compared to what I was seeing all the other ships at that tier pull Midway looked fairly balanced.

 

I will add to the whole list of changes to CV that someone posted.US CV got a smaller panicked spread for there DB while IJN DB got a more accurate Manual Drop. A few patches later and with the introduction of DF for high tier CV they reverted the DB change only on the US CV.

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T10 cv's have never been op, if yammy can face stomp montana then surely it stands to reason a midway or hak can wipe anything off a map, myself i find it boring but u do like having cvs in game even ones that can stomp you as it stops camping bow on bbs which r my pet hate.

 

I would let cv players pick a load out of their choice with current squad limits this would help sort out the hak/midway groaning.

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A Yammy has to be less than 10km and Montana has to show full broadsize, and even then RNGesus must be with you, and you might get a 60,000 dmg shot. Montana will still be able to hurt you back, and you have to wait 30 seconds before you can finish them offm By that time, if the Montana captain has any brains, they will have angled, thus killing it would be harder. All this while, your Yammy is probably about to be torped by a Shima and is on fire in 15 different places like a Texas BBQ. 

 

Meanwhile, a pre 0.5.3 Midway torp drop would simply delete a Tier X BB within the time of the drop, so oh...about 5 seconds, with over 130 aircraft in the hangar, some 30km away safe and undetected.

 

If thats not OP, im not sure what is. Currently, a Midway cannot alpha strike a Tier X BB. He has to rely on DoT, and even then its not a guaranteed kill. 

Edited by lord_of_storms

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A Yammy has to be less than 10km and Montana has to show full broadsize, and even then RNGesus must be with you, and you might get a 60,000 dmg shot. Montana will still be able to hurt you back, and you have to wait 30 seconds before you can finish them offm By that time, if the Montana captain has any brains, they will have angled, thus killing it would be harder. All this while, your Yammy is probably about to be torped by a Shima and is on fire in 15 different places like a Texas BBQ. 

 

Meanwhile, a pre 0.5.3 Midway torp drop would simply delete a Tier X BB within the time of the drop, so oh...about 5 seconds, with over 130 aircraft in the hangar, some 30km away safe and undetected.

 

Midway never had 130 planes just to use how it liked heck I'm not even sure it ever had 130 planes in game. The other point is in all those times where a Midway manged to hit with the 9 or so torps required to Alpha a Yamato or Montana to death the BB was normally trying to stay in the way back and snipe or had very little cover.

 

I do have to wounder if the whole screaming about OP though could have been fixed or at least helped by the strengthening of AA.

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Well simply put in the current meta on why the Midway has lower win rates than the Hakuryu:

 

- Midway's Dive Bomber attacks are unreliable at best due to their RNG

- Hakuryu's more numerous squadrons (8 for the Tier X IJN CV vs Tier X USN CV) can do more than the Midway like scouting, attacking, and defending attacks

 

Midways and Hakuryus are no longer the monsters they were but in the right hands, they still can be. However, they're just a few of the many reasons why the high tier CV players are abysmal. Other things include long quene due to forced CV matchmaking conditions and that CV mechanics are inherently different than normal ship gameplay. 

 

Take the following as pure speculation as the numbers may/will change until the next official patch:  According to Himmseldorf (I think... I know it was a reliable leak website) there's a buff to USN planes to get 33% increase in ammo. I still don't think it would fix it because of the aforementioned two above. There has to be drastic change to CV gameplay.

 

If you want a solution to bring the USN CV up to par with the IJN CV, they need to have similar number of planes per squadron and similar squadrons compared to their counterparts. So far I have hope that WG can still do it due to their experiment with the Saipan. But I want to hear their solution asap. But also the most important thing is to make CV fun. Another (although slightly less prominent) complaint is that CV's are not fun from the start. A mini RTS game mechanic for carriers can be taxing instead of shooting guns and seeing, up and personal, enemy ships blow up with citadels or torpedoes.

Edited by AdmiralMudkip

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If you want a solution to bring the USN CV up to par with the IJN CV, they need to have similar number of planes per squadron and similar squadrons compared to their counterparts. So far I have hope that WG can still do it due to their experiment with the Saipan. But I want to hear their solution asap. But also the most important thing is to make CV fun. Another (although slightly less prominent) complaint is that CV's are not fun from the start. A mini RTS game mechanic for carriers can be taxing instead of shooting guns and seeing, up and personal, enemy ships blow up with citadels or torpedoes.

 

Don't know if them getting similar number of planes per squad or number of squadrons would be a good idea actually. Would make deciding on IJN or US CV be purely dependent on stats. Personally I like the whole RTS style more and find it easier and more fun than using guns unless I'm 8km from my target. Torps are kinda fun to use but I like the whole planning the attack part more than watching the hits.

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Personally i dont aee any other way to control planes and a carrier other than an RTS setup onless you want to give up control. All you could do is select targets and squads and tell them to attack. It would be like auto drops, but even less control. 

 

RTD style is just fine and even a breath of fresh air from the first person/third person gun shooting gameplay. Interface is even fine, just needs improvement and removal of all bugs.

 

Numbah, I believe Midway has 136 planes if memory serves me right. 

Edited by lord_of_storms

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