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iHaveNoIntelligence

Belfast - Need of Torpedo?

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Since British Cruisers are up on GM3D, I think it's safe to discuss about them.

 

The upcoming HMS Belfast, Town Class Cruiser, is a tier 7 premium unlike her sister ship Edinburgh which is a tier 8 ship in regular brench.

Let's compare Belfast with Edinburgh, Atlanta(since she is only purchasable t7 premium CL, Flint is a reward so I left it out) and Fiji

 

Belfast

Edinburgh

Atlanta

Fiji

Ship HP: 35700
Armour: 13-114 mm
Max Speed: 32.5 knots
Rudder Shift Time: 9.6 seconds
Turning Circle Radius: 680 m
Surface Detectability: 11.3 km
Air Detectability: 8.1 km

Ship HP: 36400
Armour: 16-114 mm
Torpedo Protection: 16%
Max Speed: 32.5 knots
Rudder Shift Time: 9.6 seconds
Turning Circle Radius: 680 m
Surface Detectability: 11.7 km
Air Detectability: 8.1 km

Ship HP: 27500
Armour: 13-89 mm
Max Speed: 32.5 knots
Rudder Shift Time: 8.4 seconds
Turning Circle Radius: 610 m
Surface Detectability: 10.7 km
Air Detectability: 6.4 km

Ship HP: 31400
Armour: 13-89 mm
Max Speed: 32.5 knots
Rudder Shift Time: 8.6 seconds
Turning Circle Radius: 590 m
Surface Detectability: 11.5 km
Air Detectability: 7.3 km

Main Battery
152mm/50 Mk.XXIII (4 x 3)
Range: 15.4 km
Max Dispersion: 139 m
Reload Time: 7.5 seconds

RPM/turret: 24

Max RPM: 96
Turret Rotation Speed: 25.7 sec/180°
HE Ammo: 6 inch 6crh Mark IV
2100 Damage, 841 m/s velocity,

9% chance of fire
AP Ammo: 6 inch 6crh Mark IV
3100 Damage, 841 m/s velocity

Main Battery
152mm/50 Mk.XXIII (4 x 3)
Range: 15.4 km
Max Dispersion: 139 m
Reload Time: 7.5 seconds

RPM/turret: 24

Max RPM: 96

Turret Rotation Speed: 25.7 sec/180°
HE Ammo: 6 inch 6crh Mark IV
2100 Damage, 841 m/s velocity,

9% chance of fire
AP Ammo: 6 inch 6crh Mark IV
3100 Damage, 841 m/s velocity

Main Battery
127mm/38 Mk32 mod. 12 (8 x 2)
Range: 11.4 km
Max Dispersion: 98 m
Reload Time: 5 seconds

RPM/turret: 12

Max RPM: 84

Turret Rotation Speed: 7.2 sec/180°
HE Ammo: 127mm HE Mark 32
180 Damage,

5% chance of fire
AP Ammo: 127mm AP/SC Mk38
2100 Damage

 Main Battery

152mm/50 Mk.XXIII (4 x 3)
Range: 15.4 km
Max Dispersion: 139 m
Reload Time: 7.5 seconds

RPM/Turret: 24

Max RPM: 96
Turret Rotation Speed: 25.7 sec/180°
HE Ammo: 6 inch 6crh Mark IV
2100 Damage, 841 m/s velocity, 9% chance of fire
AP Ammo: 6 inch 6crh Mark IV
3100 Damage, 841 m/s velocity

Secondary Battery
102mm/45 QF RP51 Mark XVIV* (4 x 2)
Range: 5 km
Reload Time: 3 seconds
Ammo: 4 inch HE 35 lb
1500 Damage, 811 m/s velocity, 6% chance of fire

Secondary Battery
102mm/45 QF Mark XIX* (6 x 2)
Range: 5 km
Reload Time: 3 seconds
Ammo: 4 inch HE 35 lb
1500 Damage, 811 m/s velocity, 6% chance of fire

No Scondaries

Secondary Battery
102mm/45 QF Mark XIX* (4 x 2)
Range: 5 km
Reload Time: 3 seconds
Ammo: 4 inch HE 35 lb
1500 Damage, 811 m/s velocity, 6% chance of fire

No Torpedoes

Torpedoes
533mm Mark IX** (2 x 3)
Damage: 15533
Speed: 62 knots
Range: 10 km
Reload: 72 seconds

Torpedoes
533mm Mark 14 (2 x 4)
Damage: 15533
Speed: 65 knots
Range: 4.5 km
Reload: 98 seconds

Torpedoes
533mm Mark IX* (2 x 3)
Damage: 15867
Speed: 61 knots
Range: 8 km
Reload: 72 seconds

AA
102mm/45 QF Mark XVIV* (4 x 2)
72 damage, 5 km

40 mm Bofors Mk.V RP50 (6 x 2)
32 damage, 3.5 km range

AA
102mm/45 QF Mark XIX* (6 x 2)
90 damage, 5 km

40 mm Bofors Mk.VI (3 x 6)
88 damage, 3.5 km range

20 mm Oerlikon Mk.V (14 x 2)
85 damage, 2 km range

AA
127 mm/38 Mk 32 (8 x 2)

 

121 Damage, 5km

28mm/75 Mk2 mod. 2 (4 x 4)

27 Damage, 3.1km

20mm Oerlikon Mk4 (8 x 1)

29 Damage, 2km

AA
102mm/45 QF Mark XIX* (4 x 2)
60 damage, 5 km

40 mm Bofors Mk.II (2 x 4)
32 damage, 3.5 km range

40 mm Bofors Mk.V(2 x 2)
25 damage, 3.5 km range

20 mm Oerlikon Mk.V (10 x 2)
61 damage, 2 km range

20 mm Oerlikon Mk.IV (3 x 1)
11 damage, 2 km range

 

So Belfast is pretty much it's basically Edinburgh w/o Torpedo except for some small changes(HP, Armor, etc). Compared to Atlanta: She has much better RPM, Damage and Range since she has 6 inch not 5 inch. But at close range it's different story. Although it has more RPM it lacks Torpedo which means at CQB Atlanta has higher chance to rack up enemy ship with her quadruple Torpedo. But Belfast also had Torpedoes historically namely the same one as which is on Edinburgh.

Compared to tier 7 ship Fiji, it's main gun statistics are exactly the same. Fiji has more AA, has Torpedo with range of 8km. Belfast is somewhat durable and has more armor(more or less similar value to Pensacola which is already a glass canon among heavy cruisers than Fiji but it's light cruiser in the end and it's not really big difference)

 

To comparison sum it up:

- Belfast, Edinburgh and Fiji has exactly the same main stat. Atlanta has worse stat(of course since she has 5 inch gun).

- Edinburgh, Fiji exceeds Atlanta at torpedo though only it's a triple one, they have better range, max damage(Fiji) and faster reload. Belfast has no torpedo at all which makes it extremely vulnerable at close range combat as well against DD as well as BB.

- Atlanta has best long range AA among all, followed by Edinburgh, Belfast and Fiji.

- Edinburgh has best mid range AA among all, followed by Fiji, Belfast and Atlanta.

- Edinburgh has best close range AA, followed by Fiji and Atlanta.

(Notice that British CL doesn't have DF but instead Smoke and Radar from tier 8 except for Belfast being premium get's t7 Radar)

- Edinburgh get Hydraulic Search, Radar equivalent to New Orleans and Smoke or Fighter, Atlanta get Radar equivalent to Indianapolis and Hydraulic Search or INFINITE DF, Fiji have Hydraulic Search, Fighter or Radar. Belfast get Radar equivalent to Indianapolis, Hydraulic and Smoke.

 

Only strength of Belfast compared to Fiji is having Radar which doesn't help combat capability directly, littlebit better surviability and better gun statistics compared to Atlanta. Other than that It's inferior to Fiji at AA, having no Torpedo and Atlanta(long range AA and close range AA).

 

As I already said Historically Belfast had 2 x 3 533mm which could be given to Belfast for better combat capability at close range. Maybe not the 10km version of Edinburgh but at least 8km version of Fiji could be given.

 

What do you guys think?

 

p.s. sorry for table being so annoyingly big. I tried to decrease it's size but it refused to do so. :unsure:

Edited by Treediagram
  • Cool 2

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If submerged = no

If above = maybe.

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Belfast's torpedoes were removed, though it happened after the war (in 1959, apparently, which also coincided with a refit involving radar - check the Wikipedia page on her, "Modernisation and final commissions 1955-1963"). I think the removal of torpedoes is a fair enough trade for being dropped down a tier, particularly if she has Radar as a consumable at T7.

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If you add torps, you'd have to make it Tier VIII, no?  There's so little else different between Belfast and Edinburgh.

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Belfast's torpedoes were removed, though it happened after the war (in 1959, apparently, which also coincided with a refit involving radar - check the Wikipedia page on her, "Modernisation and final commissions 1955-1963"). I think the removal of torpedoes is a fair enough trade for being dropped down a tier, particularly if she has Radar as a consumable at T7.

 

Agreed.

 

If you're down to using torpedoes in an Atlanta, you've either messed up badly at some point, or through either accident or careful planning you've managed to get in just the right situation where they can be proactively useful (i.e. not as a desperation weapon). On paper, Belfast looks like she'll make for a pretty effective DD hunter that can also ward off other cruisers in a pinch as well as provide supporting fire (and smoke) for the heavies. Will be shelling out for her, definitely.

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If you add torps, you'd have to make it Tier VIII, no?  There's so little else different between Belfast and Edinburgh.

 

Personally I wouldn't have any problem if they would make it t8 for giving a torpedo.

Or they take up the Radar and give it torpedo just as Fiji has no radar but torpedo.

 

What I understand is WG is trying to make a ship which is somewhat inferior to t7 and t8(of course) but has early access consumable so that player have to cover the inferiority with Radar but a triple torpedo for Radar is too much in my opinion.

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It occurs to me also that they may be doing it (at least in part) so that Belfast will be able to face the Scharnhorst. Which would be awkward since Belfast did launch torpedoes at her in the Battle of North Cape.

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Agreed.

 

If you're down to using torpedoes in an Atlanta, you've either messed up badly at some point, or through either accident or careful planning you've managed to get in just the right situation where they can be proactively useful (i.e. not as a desperation weapon). On paper, Belfast looks like she'll make for a pretty effective DD hunter that can also ward off other cruisers in a pinch as well as provide supporting fire (and smoke) for the heavies. Will be shelling out for her, definitely.

 

It's gun statistic is fantastic, no doubt about it. Fires are gonna rain from Heaven :trollface:

but still it lacks of CQB capability. Even Atlanta has at least 4.5 km Torpedo.

 

It occurs to me also that they may be doing it (at least in part) so that Belfast will be able to face the Scharnhorst. Which would be awkward since Belfast did launch torpedoes at her in the Battle of North Cape.

 

Well if they wish so, they should add Torpedeo to it

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1. Stats are subject to change before release

2. Discussion of unreleased content is a forum violation, regardless if the stats are posted on a 3rd Party site/leaked/etc.

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no, it's not safe... it's never safe

 

:hiding:

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1. Stats are subject to change before release

2. Discussion of unreleased content is a forum violation, regardless if the stats are posted on a 3rd Party site/leaked/etc.

 

Nope it isn't

 

When something goes into the game files, and someone data mines that info and shares it, like on the 3d game modeler site, we don't usually take that stuff down. While we haven't started talking about it yet, it's already in the client so folks finding it is inevitable.

 

However, for true leaks, where the info is not available in the client, we take those down. While they may be available on other sites, we don't want to promote the info here. For the warning, it was only intended to let you know that the info didn't need to be up. It didn't have any points associated with it that will be held against your account. Thanks for understanding!

 

It's already available on ST client.

Besides Dseehafer's comparison didn't got down also.

 

Yes it's subject to change but it doesn't forbid me from discussing, does it?

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Wait, Fiji and Belfast have the same number and size guns as Cleveland but do less damage and have less fire chance? ..and less HP. Despite being a tier higher? O.o

Edited by BubbleRapper

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Nope it isn't

 

It's already available on ST client.

Besides Dseehafer's comparison didn't got down also.

 

That's because the mod that hates me only comes out at night

 

:hiding:

 

(no seriously, every time I've gotten banned I didnt know until I woke up in the morning)

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That's because the mod that hates me only comes out at night

 

:hiding:

 

(no seriously, every time I've gotten banned I didnt know until I woke up in the morning)

 

same here....

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Wait, Fiji and Belfast have the same number and size guns as Cleveland but do less damage and have less fire chance? ..and less HP. Despite being a tier higher? O.o

The Cleveland fires a superheavy 130 lb. projectile.  The RN 6"/50 fires a 112 lb projectile.

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I'd rather see her with a 1939 setup.

 

Or other nice configuration to distinguish her from her sistership may be the quad 6 inch mounted version which was planned but never came to pass. Of course for balance they will have to tweak reload but it will be nice to see also.

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1. Stats are subject to change before release

2. Discussion of unreleased content is a forum violation, regardless if the stats are posted on a 3rd Party site/leaked/etc.

 

One phrase for you: Gamescon Press Release. That said I might be wrong, but we are not under an NDA. You have been, but most of us on this thread have not.(Well, maybe most of us have. I haven't, though) I was only present for the Open Beta and beyond, not the Closed Beta Testing period or Alpha Testing period, both periods bound to NDAs.

 

It's not beyond possibility, but this thread will be locked and/or deleted if it is, so don't judge this thread until a mod sees it and comes to a verdict.

Edited by legoboy0401

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The Cleveland fires a superheavy 130 lb. projectile.  The RN 6"/50 fires a 112 lb projectile.

 

That doesn't explain the confusing balance here. WG can manipulate stats all they want.

 

Other answer: Then shouldn't Cleveland be tier 7?

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Wait, Fiji and Belfast have the same number and size guns as Cleveland but do less damage and have less fire chance? ..and less HP. Despite being a tier higher? O.o

Slightly better ROF.

 

Also lower HP, far less armor.

 

Torpedoes and concealment have to carry a lot, and maybe smoke. At tier 8 Hipper has twice the torpedo broadside and despite the shorter range, does anyone think of Hipper as in any way a torpedo monster?

 

Also worth noting that the good thing about being T8 is access to the concealment module, so effectively Edinburgh has better concealment than Belfast as well (but still not as good as Atago). 

 

-snip-

 

I think you're out on Atlanta's RPM which I make to be 12 + 10% BFT = 13.2 per gun x 14 barrel broadside = 185. 

 

I think Belfast should get a big armor buff: (http://www.navypedia.org/ships/uk/brit_cr_edinburgh.htm)

(11/1939 - 10/1942), Belfast: new bulges fitted, breadth rose to 20.2m, deep load rose to 7.06m, displacement rose to 11500/14900t, maximal speed felt to 30.5kts. There was new belt over bulges 102mm thick. - 2 x 4 - 12.7/62; + 5 x 2 - 20/70 Oerlikon Mk II/IV, 4 x 1 - 20/70 Oerlikon Mk II/IV, type 273, 281, 282, 284, 285 radars

 

Which we may or may not be seeing in game as belt may not include sub-layers?. Looks like not. 114mm plus 102mm is pretty nice. 

 

I think this is the first thing I've seen suggesting both radar and smoke on the same ship, which is interesting, spot for yourself while smoked up...

 

 

I'm kind of wondering between 'these ships will be terribad' then I'm like 'No mofton, you don't know the full story and the consumables and what not and maybe concealment and maybe tiny torpedo broadsides....' 

 

 

Then I look at the basic numbers and I feel sad.

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She does seem weak for a tier 7 cruiser.  I think she at the least needs torpedoes.  No idea why she doesn't since the Brit CL line all/almost all have them.

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Gamemodels3d needs to be shut down for repeatedly posting data mined from the ST server. It is highly illegal and Lesta can only be in a rage of pure anger as we speak.

 

I hope people realize that the continuous leak of content means that the Supertester program could be shut down and terminated for good.

 

Continuing to reference to these websites only furthers the issue.

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I hope people realize that the continuous leak of content means that the Supertester program could be shut down and terminated for good.

 

What does GM3D have to do with ST?

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