Trevzor

Things I learned in my first 200 games

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Most of the things I've learned in the first 200 games, (including co-op I hope as I only have 168 random), have already been covered here.  One thing that hasn't been mentioned or maybe I over-looked it, is fire discipline.  I have a rather bad tendency to just start spamming like crazy (St. Louis anyone?).  Battleships I would take aim and unleash broadside after broadside.  I wondered why I kept missing and why my hit rate was so low.  Finally I forced myself to take my time, aim, fire a shot and see if it's on target then, because the target is moving. adjust and fire the next battery.  Instead of KABOOM...splashity splash splash, wait for reloads.  It's now more like Boom...boom...boom with hits in between and my avg hit rate is slowly but steadily coming up.  May even be acceptable some day.

 

So aside from what's already been mentioned, fire discipline was a big one for me.

 

But I'll still lose control in my St. Louis because IT'S SO MUCH DANG FUN!


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5. You live by the minimap, you die by the minimap

To date, I don't think I have played a game where the information on the minimap is as crucial to your success than it is in World of Warships. Be it the ranges at which your ship will be spotted by ships, the range you are spotted by planes, or the range on all of your armaments there is tons of simple crucial data for you to utilize. On top of that, understanding how the battle is going to unfold is exactly what the minimap is used for. Question: How many times did you see a red plane indicator on your HUD only to have a full squadron of torpedo bombers wreck your match with a full spread of balance lances? I have plenty of times. Every one of those times, I wasn't watching the mini map. How about getting whacked by a Destroyer that came out of no where after about the halfway point of the match? It good guessing that they've been spotted once before. If you haven't done it yet, while you are in a match press the CTRL key and use your mouse to click the gears over the top right of the minimap. Check all of the boxes and revel in the amount of information that the map can give you!

 

I could go on, but this is already shaping up to be a book. Maybe I will do a second installment for my 300th game.

 

What are some of the things that you learned early on in your Warships career?

I see you understand the need for the minimap..Can you get in someones ear about adding a transparency feature (without the need for a mod) to the game like in tanks..I like to run a large minimap but without it see thru its like a huge billboard on my lower right...that be great and hope to see you on the seas

 

This is feedback that I can certainly submit... no guarantees, however :yes_cap:

~Trevzor


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Take the minimap to the next level ... Hit the M key this takes you out of game to all Map...it shows the "true" heading of all ships and is very useful for firing torps at an enemy behind an Island when your unsure what side he will pop out on


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What are some of the things that you learned early on in your Warships career?

 

that sinking xTheCanadianx is fun :trollface:

 

Edit: as for what I really learned early in my career

  • how to micro your scout so you don't run out 5 min into the game and become blind
  • ignore the lead indicator, people turn
  • be careful of shallows
  • watch out for long range torpedoes
  • play during the RU prime time sessions for more than 20 people on the server

 

:hiding:


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that sinking xTheCanadianx is fun :trollface:

 

Sinking Tedster with a CV is also fun :trollface:

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What are some of the things that you learned early on in your Warships career?

i learned torpedo beats


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Sinking Tedster with a CV is also fun :trollface:

 

i concur x3

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You're ahead of the xthecanadianx. You didn't self torp your own carrier.


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What I learned early on, learn one play style/ship class at a time.

Jumping all over the place set me back a lot, as they have very different tactics and skill sets


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You're actually extremely wrong and this goes on to show about how bad this game is at teaching anything as Trevzor even stated with the citadel story.

 

Now I probably don't have this 100% right and people can correct/flame/laugh/yell all they want at me, but:

  • HE on destroyers is in fact, as you are pointing out, less likely to overpen
  • HE can quickly have it's damage negated by damage saturation on DDs due to low hp on each part of the ship
  • AP can actually fully penetrate and detonate inside ANY DD. I've done over 5k damage with a single shell to Shimakaze using Yamato's AP. Scharnhorst and Dunkerque seem to perform better firing AP against DDs than HE. Scharnhorst especially seems to have a low enough caliber or something to allow them to get standard penetrations easily.
  • I'm not very sure on this one, but I think overpens are also (nearly?) guaranteed to do 10% of max damage, so that makes it reliable, even if it's "low" damage.

 

I don't know if there is any 100% good choice for certain situations, but AP is definitely usable on destroyers. Lately I've even felt it's actually more reliable.

 

Yes, but that only applies in BBs. With cruisers, you should always shoot HE. 

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Sometimes you get higher damaging salvos from using AP rather than HE on a destroyer. While HE explodes on the first thing it hits, like the ship and modules, AP will instead go through the modules and ship. This is especially useful if a module is already low on HP resulting in a low damage roll from HE. I'm not saying AP is always more effective because it isn't. Just use whatever is loaded during the meantime and switch over to the better suited shell type.

 

If you're talking about damage saturation on different sections of a ship, yes, that does happen on destroyers.  However, the sections are so close together that a salvo aimed at a destroyer is entirely likely to hit more than one section (unlike shooting at, say, a battleship), which mean you probably won't be doing 0 damage at any point -- add to this the effect of basically breaking every module on a destroyer with HE, and it's more worthwhile.  Additionally, the HP of all the different sections actually adds up to roughly twice what the actual combat capability (health) of a given ship is, so it's highly unlikely you'll end up hitting multiple sections in a destroyer that have been depleted of HP before the destroyer is toast.

 

 

1. As a new player, it makes more sense to learn the rules of thumb first, then the exceptions. It's more informationally efficient.

2. BBs can shoot AP at DDs just fine, particularly at tiers 6+. Destroyers have citadel boxes that can't be overpenned (they give standard pen damage rather than citadel, which is still 20-30% of the ship's HP).

 

No, they don't have citadel hitboxes.  They did, in alpha, but these were removed.  For a while the central section of destroyers would take 50% damage from standard penetrating hits (not the standard 33%), but this was also determined to make DDs too fragile and the standard penetration damage was reduced back to 33%.  None of this meant you couldn't, and can't, get overpenetrations firing at the center of a destroyer.  Go ahead and try in a training room.  Fire at a broadside destroyer at the waterline.  You will overpenetrate, with the possible exception of 5-inch guns.

 

 

You're actually extremely wrong and this goes on to show about how bad this game is at teaching anything as Trevzor even stated with the citadel story.

 

Now I probably don't have this 100% right and people can correct/flame/laugh/yell all they want at me, but:

  • HE on destroyers is in fact, as you are pointing out, less likely to overpen
  • HE can quickly have it's damage negated by damage saturation on DDs due to low hp on each part of the ship
  • AP can actually fully penetrate and detonate inside ANY DD. I've done over 5k damage with a single shell to Shimakaze using Yamato's AP. Scharnhorst and Dunkerque seem to perform better firing AP against DDs than HE. Scharnhorst especially seems to have a low enough caliber or something to allow them to get standard penetrations easily.
  • I'm not very sure on this one, but I think overpens are also (nearly?) guaranteed to do 10% of max damage, so that makes it reliable, even if it's "low" damage.

 

I don't know if there is any 100% good choice for certain situations, but AP is definitely usable on destroyers. Lately I've even felt it's actually more reliable.

 

As I pointed out above, the fact that destroyers are so small means it's highly unlikely that one salvo from any ship will hit just one section, meaning that damage oversaturation almost never comes into play with a destroyer before it's sunk anyway (it can happen -- I've been on the receiving and firing ends of torpedoes that hit a destroyer and only did a couple hundred damage due to oversaturation, but that's rare).  Additionally, even if you're unlucky enough to hit a totally damage-saturated section (and not have the damage from the blast hit any other sections on a ship as tiny as a destroyer), with HE you will still break every module on the ship.  And set it on fire, most likely.

 

Yes, overpens are guaranteed 10% of max AP damage.  But HE is almost always going to do 33% standard penetration damage, and that is in basically all cases more than AP overpenetration damage from any gun in the game, even the Yamato's monster AP.  Yes, you can get a lucky shell that penetrates going from bow-to-stern through enough of the ship to get a standard AP pen (which might be worthwhile in a battleship), but you're also unlikely to get things like fires (which make it much more difficult for destroyers to hide), and engine and rudder damage.  And the shot has to hit perfectly.  HE... doesn't.  And if the shot doesn't land perfectly, HE will do more damage.  Period.

 

I have had no problem killing DDs with AP, I actually prefer it.  The situation seems to develop like this.  AP is loaded, looking for enemy C/BB, DD comes into range, unload AP into it.  Reload HE?? not me, because usually decent DD player is moving out of Visual, Dropping smoke, or that enemy CA/BB just turned broadside to you.  Do you really want HE in this situation?  I now have option to unload into a juicy broadside target OR if DD is closing to again fire.  AP  seems to be just as effective as HE, to me.  I am not sure I am advocating AP over HE with CA's because again, it depends on what CA I am driving.  6 inch Russian or most Japanese almost always using HE anyways, so no switch.  US CA's using a lot of AP, so again why switch, and I really don't remember a time where I said to myself, "wish I had loaded HE for that DD "  I would like to hear about other players experiences, as hard data is probably going to be hard to come by.

 

Some numbers.  We'll use the New Orleans as an example of a heavy cruiser with relatively slow-firing 8-inch guns.

 

Max AP damage for the NO: 4600.  Standard damage penetration does 33%, so about 1533.  Overpenetrations do 10%, so 460.  Max HE damage for the NO: 2800 with a 14% fire chance (and basically 80% chance to break something important on a destroyer like the engine).  Standard damage for NO HE: 933.  Overpenetrations with HE can't happen, so that's irrelevant.

 

You shoot at a maneuvering, fleeing destroyer with your front turrets (chasing him down, see), and get, say, three hits (50% accuracy, not bad at all).  With AP, if you're lucky, one of those might be a standard damage hit, for 1533 damage.  The other two are almost certainly overpens (and remember, this is probably being lucky -- 3 overpens would be more likely), and do 460 damage each.  Total damage around 2453 (three overpens would be only 1380).  Three HE hits (all of which will be standard penetrations, assuming no issues from damage saturation): 2799.  Plus fire chance.  Plus the chance of breaking the destroyer's engine, rudder, and probably everything else on the ship besides.

 

Whether it's worth messing around with reloading for that is up to you.  But HE is entirely likely to do more damage, and doesn't rely on hitting a ship with a rudder shift likely in the sub-3 second range exactly right.

 

 Ac tually, if a DD is closing in on you, and you're firing through the nose, you'll do full AP damage.  3k damage a hit is not joke.  That's how BB's firing AP on DD's can still manage to delete them from existence.

 

And if the destroyer turns even slightly and doesn't remain dead bow-on to you, you're looking at an overpenetration for sure.  Still plenty of damage (and with battleships if you land enough of them on a destroyer the damage difference is probably moot and not worth messing with changing ammunition), but 33% damage hits from HE always do more damage than 10% overpens, even on the Yamato's monster guns.  Plus they break things.  Plus they don't even have to hit to mess up a destroyer -- I had an Iowa destroy both my torpedo launchers on the Fletcher with a near-miss using HE that did no damage (because near-miss).  I was, as you might imagine, not amused.  If he'd been firing AP?  Nothing.

 

AP works very well on DD"s if used correctly, if you catch a DD angled 45 degrees or more, the shell will go through enough of the destroyer to count as a penetration and in BB's that counts to 3-5k damage per hit which is easily 2-3x more than HE will do. Yes, for new players HE is better, but if you don't practice with AP you will never get better or understand the practice

 

Again, if the shot lands perfectly, on a destroyer at an extreme angle, that can happen.  You can wait, hold your fire until a destroyer is properly positioned and hope to get lucky (and that the shots go where you need them, which on a battleship firing at a destroyer is likely only at close range, any further and the shells can deviate by more than the length of the target destroyer, rendering where you aimed moot -- remember, no citadel to stop the shell in the middle).  Or you can fire HE and break every module on the destroyer (and set a couple of fires, letting you continue to shoot at the target because it'll be on fire and thus unable to stealth as easily) regardless of the range or where RNG decides to let you hit a ship with a sub-3 second rudder shift.

 

HE is the preferred method for killing DD's because you have the potential to wreck such things as steering and engines. Take this example, you and another ship are sailing along, you both see a DD. Ship 1 fires HE and knocks out the engine on the DD, the DD, hoping to evade, repairs and turns away, you fire HE and knock out his engine again. By now, that DD is hurting and either dead in the water, or even with the captains skill last stand, is crawling into his smoke cloud hoping nobody has hydro acoustic search or radar. That DD cannot repair the dmg done quickly and if anyone actively pursues him, he is severely gimped and has little chance to evade. That's why HE is preferable over AP for killing DD's.

 

This.

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AP is better to use in BBs against the destroyers, because if you do get a shell down the length of the ship, you'll get a normal pen. It has to do with the amount of material the shell passed through, not just the ship's external armor. But, in something like a cruiser, HE is preferable.

 

I've seen some people using AP in destroyers on other destroyers in ranked though. I think the theory is the AP will do more damage to the guns and wreck them more quickly. Not sure it really worked though.


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AP is better to use in BBs against the destroyers, because if you do get a shell down the length of the ship, you'll get a normal pen. It has to do with the amount of material the shell passed through, not just the ship's external armor. But, in something like a cruiser, HE is preferable.

 

I've seen some people using AP in destroyers on other destroyers in ranked though. I think the theory is the AP will do more damage to the guns and wreck them more quickly. Not sure it really worked though.

 

No.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Not.

 

If you can get one shell from a battleship's AP to go the entire length of a destroyer, you might get a standard penetration.  But if that destroyer turns, even slightly... overpenetration.  Have the side?  Guaranteed overpenetration.  And overpenetrations from AP ALWAYS do less damage than standard penetrations from HE (damage saturation on a given ship section permitting).  Always.  Even from the Yamato.

 

And again, this doesn't take into account the likely module damage from HE (making further shots easier, due to disabling the destroyer).

 

If you have a destroyer pointed perfectly at you, and get a perfect shell hit, you might get one standard pen with battleship AP.  Maybe.  But any turns, any maneuvers, anything at all, and HE instantly becomes preferable for that target.  To say nothing of the fact that if you land multiple shells with a battleship salvo on a destroyer perpendicular to your ship, you might get one standard pen, but are entirely likely to get a couple of overpens if any other shells do hit, whereas with HE, they will all do standard damage regardless of the target's orientation.  And set fires.  And break the destroyer's engine.

 

An example.  The Yamato.  The Yamato fires at a fleeing destroyer that isn't manevering at all, just running straight away, and manages to score two hits smack on the stern, which is pretty good considering battleship dispersion and the narrowness and small size of the target.  With AP, two overpens will do 2960 damage.  If you do manage to get a standard penetration (and that's unlikely, given how small the target is and how perfectly you have to hit it, right in the stern at an angle that assures the shell will travel enough distance through the ship to both arm and detonate without overpenetrating), you will get more damage than you would with HE, as one standard penetration and one overpen (asking for two standard penetrations is getting into the realm of YouTube one-in-a-million shot compilations) will do 6413 damage.  But miss even slightly, and you do less damage.  With HE, two standard penetrations will do 4866 damage.  Guaranteed, no worrying about target orientation required.  And remember, this is assuming that the destroyer isn't dodging and turning and is perfectly perpendicular to the Yamato, and the Yamato manages two hits at such an angle that one of them is moving at a trajectory flat enough and straight enough to go the length of the target.  And now let's assume three hits.  One standard pen and two overpens with AP: 7983 damage (three overpens, which would be more likely, would only be 4440 damage).  Three standard penetrations with HE (much more likely, by the way): 7300 damage.  Already basically no difference in damage, and HE still has that fire and module damage chance.  Four shots now.  One standard AP pen, three overpens with AP: 9373 damage (and remember, that one standard penetration is pretty lucky -- four overpens is far more likely, which would only be 5920 damage).  Four standard hits with HE (again, assuming you hit with four shots on the stern of a completely-perpendicular fleeing destroyer): 9733.

 

More damage.  Consistent damage, not gambling on a lucky stern-to-bow full-length AP penetration on a tiny target, but rather being able to hit anywhere.  And the AP shots assume you don't hit something like a turret, which shows up as a "standard penetration" in the ribbon counter (assuming, you know, you actually penetrate the turret, which isn't really an issue shooting at a destroyer, admittedly) but has its own (undisplayed) HP pool separate from the main ship that is not subtracted from the ship's health as it's depleted.  This is one of the reasons you can shoot at a ship with AP and see "standard penetration" ribbons displayed but do no damage with that shot (well, to the ship's HP pool, anyway -- the turret's health drops, but you can't see that and it doesn't contribute towards sinking the ship, just disabling or destroying the turret).  HE shots, even if they do hit a turret on a destroyer, will probably still do HP damage (splash radius).  And once again, if you do hit with HE, the destroyer's engine is likely damaged, probably the rudder too, maybe some of the weapons, and there will almost certainly be one fire, which means, if that destroyer's damage control consumable is on cooldown, you've just increased that destroyer's surface detection range by several kilometers for about an extra minute.  Which means you (or someone else on your team), will probably get another shot, or two, at that destroyer.


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that sinking xTheCanadianx is fun :trollface:

 

Edit: as for what I really learned early in my career

  • how to micro your scout so you don't run out 5 min into the game and become blind
  • ignore the lead indicator, people turn
  • be careful of shallows
  • watch out for long range torpedoes
  • play during the RU prime time sessions for more than 20 people on the server

 

:hiding:

 

naw sinking Q is even more fun :P


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Uh... you're shooting armor-piercing at destroyers?  By choice, and not just to clear your gun barrels so you can load high explosive?

 

No.  Just no.

 

Destroyers (the Khabarovsk aside) have no armor.  None.  There's no armor to pierce, let alone a citadel to penetrate.  You will get overpenetrations with destroyer-caliber guns on destroyers, let alone anything bigger.

 

It doesn't have anything to do with tier.  It has to do with how much armor you have to pierce, what the angle on target is, whether or not your guns are large enough to overmatch the armor of a target (this generally applies to battleship guns only), and your shells' velocity and penetration (the Des Moines, for example, has poor shell velocity but high armor penetration on its AP).  Compare the two tier 6 Russian cruisers, for example -- the Budyonny has up to 140mm of armor to pierce, while the Molotov only has 70mm at best.  And they're the same nationality, same class, and same tier.  And one has double the armor of the other.

 

Tiers do not imply increasing armor (the Cleveland is tougher than the Pensacola, for example).  You have to know what your weapons can do, and what you're shooting at, and where to shoot that target for maximum effect.

 

And use high explosive on destroyers for crying out loud.

 

  In a battleship.. you sometimes just have to clean the chamber.  I rather shoot AP then have to sit and wait for the reload of HE.  Yes I do see the dd and still hold the AP with HE ready to reload.

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In a battleship.. you sometimes just have to clean the chamber.  I rather shoot AP then have to sit and wait for the reload of HE.  Yes I do see the dd and still hold the AP with HE ready to reload.

 

Well, yes, I do that too.  No sense messing around with a thirty-second reload -- better to do some damage and queue the proper ammunition.  But if one has the chance, loading up HE is the best bet, unless of course, it's a matter of "I'll have one shot at this DD and then it's back to cruisers/battleships."  All context, but when it's just a destroyer, HE is more consistent.

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Free XP past the Karl

Go up the Russian and IJN lines first because Russia STRONK and IJN would have won the war if not for OP American factories

 

 

Thank god for the op American factories

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AP is better to use in BBs against the destroyers, because if you do get a shell down the length of the ship, you'll get a normal pen. It has to do with the amount of material the shell passed through, not just the ship's external armor. But, in something like a cruiser, HE is preferable.

 

I've seen some people using AP in destroyers on other destroyers in ranked though. I think the theory is the AP will do more damage to the guns and wreck them more quickly. Not sure it really worked though.

 

As a DD driver, I normally have little fear of BBs, save for the very random chance of being hit by secondaries.   Since I primarily play T2-T5, there's little fear at all.   I'll be hit, but it's not that much compared to racking up that EXP gravy.   

 

Main guns?  Who cares.  IF they hit, it's game over (usually).  If not?  More EXP for me.  The type of shell matters little at all.  They rarely hit.  


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Not to derail the AP vs DD discussion, but here is the biggest lesson I've learnt.

When I'm close enough to fire at thr reds, they usually are close enough to fire at me. I've learned that , but I can't tell how many times I keep forgetting that lesson.


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I'm at about the 200 game mark myself. The main thing I've learned is that if there is any way on earth it's possible that a friendly can change course, speed, or otherwise redirect his ship in order to put himself directly in the path of a salvo of torpedoes I launched at least 60 seconds ago, he will surely do exactly that.


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I'd have to agree with MeetTheBadger. In a BB I'll clean the guns fiting AP at a DD, then switch to HE. Usually,  I load HE first now so I'm ready to support friendly DDs who encounter the enemy destroyers. The chance to delete, dmg, or break modules is too good to pass up. Especially knocking out torpedoes before they can launch.  (Always assume he launched btw)

 

Forcing repairs early then having you or an ally light it on fire is a tactical advantage.  Also, as stated by the prev poster, near misses frequently cause concussion incapacitations. You're more likely to just Detonate him so he can mount more flags later lol


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I have to chime in on this AP vs HE on DD's.     I don't think I have found a German ship I would choose HE over AP.   AP always seems to do more damage because the HE is just so weak.   In my Sharnhorst AP pens dd's on about 50% of it's hits.   I'd take 2500 damage pen over a 950 damage HE hit.   In German cruisers the only reason I'd really switch to HE is if they are trying to run away or completely angled.  The HE can break the engines and  some AP shells will bounce off of the dd.  At high tier I get very little over pens on my Hindenberg with AP and score massive damage rolls.    In battleships in general,   If I know I'm going to be running into a dd,  don't have anything else to shoot at and know I have plenty of time to load the shells before I need them then sure I'll load HE, but far and wide AP works just as well.         In most other ships I'd prefer HE.   Take the Zao for instance, that HE damage is so powerful you couldn't pay me to use AP.


 

Things I learned in the first 200 games

1. Using the scope works better for your aim then just putting the little target icon infront of the small dot representing a ship.

2. BB's take a bunch of shells well but not so much torps.

3. It's better to be sailing away from the enemy angled then sailing into a bunch of them.  Think ahead.  Turning around when the enemy is close is not a smart thing to do.       Just be prepared for the one offs calling you a coward sitting in the back.

4. Dd's sitting in smoke are very annoying, run acoustics on German ships :)


 


 

Plenty of more things learned but they were after the first 200 games.   What can I say, I'm a slow learner.


 

 

 

Edited by WES_HoundDog

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My early games? So long ago, I wish I had saved some of those replays. Early on I learned that I would be doing a lot of learning for a long time.

 

This.  At over 4,000 battles and still learning, that's the fun part.  Everyone loses their crap above talking about the right ammo, b/c there is a lot to this game which also grows with time.


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