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SirKenshi

German Battleships Secondary Guns Stats & Full Spec

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Wanna spec German BBs for Secondary? watch the stats...

Standart Seconday = Top Hull

Secondary Build = Top Hull + Upgrades(Secondary Battery Mod.2, Secondary Battery Mod.3) + Skills(BFT, AFT, Manual Fire Control Secondary Armament) + Signal Flag(Mike Yankee Soxisix).

 

P3d2ZYk.png

HJfiYsi.png?1

Hope you like it

:honoring:

Edited by SirKenshi
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Could you do this for the rest of the German BBs? (Including Scharnhorst and Tirpitz)

This would be real handy if you did the same for the others.

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Your value for range of the 150 mm secondaries after skills is wrong.  Advanced Firing Training works on all secondary batteries regardless of caliber.  The range of the 150 mm secondary batteries should match the range of the 88 mm or 105 mm secondary batteries.  It is only main battery guns of caliber larger than 139 mm that AFT does not work on.  

 

Also, secondary builds usually use Secondary Battery Modification 2 in place of Aiming Systems Mod 1 which becomes available at Tier 5.  Both the Bayern and Warspite have a base secondary range of 5 km so a full secondary build will have a range of 7.6 km with Secondary Battery Modification 2, Advanced Firing Training, and the flag that improves range.

 

The dispersion buff you have listed in the secondary build column is part of Secondary Battery Modification Mod 2 which is only available to Tier 5 and above.  The flag also grants a 5% dispersion buff.  Therefore the Dispersion buff for the Nassau and Kaiser should be only 5%, whereas the Dispersion Buff for the Koenig and Bayern should be 25%.

 

For an example of this, I will use the Warspite, which has a secondary complement of 4x2 102 mm and 8x1 152 mm.

102mm secondary batteries:

range:  6.3 km before AFT

 X5G3nhz.png

7.6 km after AFT

TosZXiT.png

 

152 mm secondary batteries:

range:

6.3 km before AFT

fv9q4Aa.png

7.6 km after AFT

L8WqKvS.png

Edited by DanielLeary

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Range of the Gneisenau is the same as the Bayern so the ranges are:  5 km base, 7.6 km secondary Build

 

Range of the Bismarck, Friedrich der Grosse and Grosser Kurfuerst are:  7 km base, 10.6 km secondary Build.

Edited by DanielLeary

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Sorry guys, i was very sleepy... i totally forget the modules and i'm gonna check the values again...

I'll be doing for all bbs in game

:honoring:

Edited by SirKenshi

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Hey guys, updated the original post for almost all Germans bbs, enjoy it and let me know if did something wrong.

I'll be posting for IJN and USN at some point too.

:honoring:

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Urgg, why does the tier 10 ship has the 128mm. The 105mm is superior as secondary gun. Reload faster and 4% higher fire chance!!

 

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Your value for range of the 150 mm secondaries after skills is wrong.  Advanced Firing Training works on all secondary batteries regardless of caliber.  The range of the 150 mm secondary batteries should match the range of the 88 mm or 105 mm secondary batteries.  It is only main battery guns of caliber larger than 139 mm that AFT does not work on.  

 

Also, secondary builds usually use Secondary Battery Modification 2 in place of Aiming Systems Mod 1 which becomes available at Tier 5.  Both the Bayern and Warspite have a base secondary range of 5 km so a full secondary build will have a range of 7.6 km with Secondary Battery Modification 2, Advanced Firing Training, and the flag that improves range.

 

The dispersion buff you have listed in the secondary build column is part of Secondary Battery Modification Mod 2 which is only available to Tier 5 and above.  The flag also grants a 5% dispersion buff.  Therefore the Dispersion buff for the Nassau and Kaiser should be only 5%, whereas the Dispersion Buff for the Koenig and Bayern should be 25%.

 

For an example of this, I will use the Warspite, which has a secondary complement of 4x2 102 mm and 8x1 152 mm.

102mm secondary batteries:

range:  6.3 km before AFT

 X5G3nhz.png

7.6 km after AFT

TosZXiT.png

 

152 mm secondary batteries:

range:

6.3 km before AFT

fv9q4Aa.png

7.6 km after AFT

L8WqKvS.png

 

I'm having troubles looking at your numbers. I make like this: 

 

Warspite.

Standard values 102mm: Range 5km, Reload: 3s

 

Range: 45%(20%AFT+20%SBmod2+5%Flag) of 5km, and it gives 2,25km. So 5km+2,25km = 7,25km

Reload time: 15%(BFT 10% + 5%Flag) of 3s = 0,45s, so 3s-0,45s = 2,55s

 

In the other hand as you show in game for the 102mm:

 

Range: 5%(Flag) of 5km = 0,25km, then 5km+0,25km = 5,25km, again 20%(SBmod2) of 5,25km = 1,05km, so 5,25km+1,05= 6,3km and finally 20%(AFT) of 6,3km = 1,26km, and we have 6,3km+1,26km = 7,56km

Reload time: 5%(Flag) of 3s = 0.15s, so 3s-0,15s = 2,85s, then 10%(BFT) of 2,85s = 0,285s, and finally 2,85s - 0,285s = 2,565s

 

So the game take the values in the order you are adding the improvements and not based on the original stats. That will apply for dispersion too, and we dont have the dispersion stats for secondary armament.

I'm very confused now so the numbers at my chart are porbably wrong, i'll see if i can figure out what to do.

 

Thanks for the pics

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I'm having troubles looking at your numbers. I make like this: 

 

Warspite.

Standard values 102mm: Range 5km, Reload: 3s

 

Range: 45%(20%AFT+20%SBmod2+5%Flag) of 5km, and it gives 2,25km. So 5km+2,25km = 7,25km

Reload time: 15%(BFT 10% + 5%Flag) of 3s = 0,45s, so 3s-0,45s = 2,55s

 

In the other hand as you show in game for the 102mm:

 

Range: 5%(Flag) of 5km = 0,25km, then 5km+0,25km = 5,25km, again 20%(SBmod2) of 5,25km = 1,05km, so 5,25km+1,05= 6,3km and finally 20%(AFT) of 6,3km = 1,26km, and we have 6,3km+1,26km = 7,56km

Reload time: 5%(Flag) of 3s = 0.15s, so 3s-0,15s = 2,85s, then 10%(BFT) of 2,85s = 0,285s, and finally 2,85s - 0,285s = 2,565s

 

So the game take the values in the order you are adding the improvements and not based on the original stats. That will apply for dispersion too, and we dont have the dispersion stats for secondary armament.

I'm very confused now so the numbers at my chart are porbably wrong, i'll see if i can figure out what to do.

 

Thanks for the pics

 

The way wargaming calculates bonuses is inconsistant.  For the secondaries, it applies one bonus at a time (similar to the second example showing the range as 7.56 km), however, for other items like XP gain it adds all the percentage bonuses together and then applies them to the base xp.  This makes it hard to calculate the cumulative effects if you don't have numbers to compare the calculations to the values that are used in game.  The best you can do is make an educated guess if you don't want to use the training room to compare the affects of the different bonuses in isolation and combined.

 

For an example, lets use the following situation:

base XP=1,000 XP

camo bonues=50% (0.50)

flag bonus=50% (0.50)

1st win bonus=100% (1.00)

 

The game calculates the XP as:

XP=base XP * (camo bonus + flag bonus + 1st win bonus + 1.00)

XP=1,000*(0.50+0.50+1.00+1.00)=1,000*(3.00)=3,000 XP

 

If the game calculated XP the same way it calculates the range of secondary batteries, it would come out as follows:

XP=1,000*(1.00+1.00)*(1+0.50)*(1+0.50)=1,000*(2.00)*(1.50)*(1.50)=2,000*(1.50)*(1.50)=3,000*(1.50)=4,500 XP

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The way wargaming calculates bonuses is inconsistant.  For the secondaries, it applies one bonus at a time (similar to the second example showing the range as 7.56 km), however, for other items like XP gain it adds all the percentage bonuses together and then applies them to the base xp.  This makes it hard to calculate the cumulative effects if you don't have numbers to compare the calculations to the values that are used in game.  The best you can do is make an educated guess if you don't want to use the training room to compare the affects of the different bonuses in isolation and combined.

 

For an example, lets use the following situation:

base XP=1,000 XP

camo bonues=50% (0.50)

flag bonus=50% (0.50)

1st win bonus=100% (1.00)

 

The game calculates the XP as:

XP=base XP * (camo bonus + flag bonus + 1st win bonus + 1.00)

XP=1,000*(0.50+0.50+1.00+1.00)=1,000*(3.00)=3,000 XP

 

If the game calculated XP the same way it calculates the range of secondary batteries, it would come out as follows:

XP=1,000*(1.00+1.00)*(1+0.50)*(1+0.50)=1,000*(2.00)*(1.50)*(1.50)=2,000*(1.50)*(1.50)=3,000*(1.50)=4,500 XP

Thanks for the info, sadly i'll have to rework all again.. let's see what can i do

:honoring:

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Poor Tirpitz. It has basically Tier V secondary range. It really could use 0.5km buff to range.

 

 

Urgg, why does the tier 10 ship has the 128mm. The 105mm is superior as secondary gun. Reload faster and 4% higher fire chance!!

 

 

Yeah. That doesn't make a lot of sense, but secondaries in this game make very little sense. Why do we have basically the same guns firing at different ranges? Why do smaller calibers have the same range as larger ones?

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Tier 6 secondary build gives you 0.9km extra range and 13% better dispersion at the expense of 1.1 /km of dispersion and either quicker reload or about 2.4km of detectability.

Tier 8 secondary build gives you 1.2km extra range and 6% better dispersion at the expense of 1.0m/km of dispersion and either quicker reload or about 2.4km of detectability.

Both builds mean you have to manually target with the secondaries and have a 15 point captain to get the dispersion to secondaries major buff.  

If German dispersion were better, I'd consider it, but with the current meta, I'd rather have the lower dispersion.

 

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Thanks for the info, sadly i'll have to rework all again.. let's see what can i do

:honoring:

 

I was trying to point out that the game is not consistent in the order of operations for applying bonuses.  I suspect that the bonuses for the dispersion on the secondary build in your table are correct, however, without the dispersion numbers or testing of the dispersion in game we won't know for certain.

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I was trying to point out that the game is not consistent in the order of operations for applying bonuses.  I suspect that the bonuses for the dispersion on the secondary build in your table are correct, however, without the dispersion numbers or testing of the dispersion in game we won't know for certain.

 

I got your point, dont worry.

I'm working on a new table, will try to do for all bbs in game before tomorow patch messed up my mods for the Extended tech tree...

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Hey!  Thanks for the specs!  I have enjoyed reading them!  Good work!

 

Thanks, hope it to be clear now :)

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Thanks, hope it to be clear now :)

 

Sad to know that the range for the secondaries has been nerfed.  All down to 4km now.

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Sad to know that the range for the secondaries has been nerfed.  All down to 4km now.

 

When and how it had been nerfed?

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Wanna spec German BBs for Secondary? watch the stats...

Standart Seconday = Top Hull

Secondary Build = Top Hull + Upgrades(Secondary Battery Mod.2, Secondary Battery Mod.3) + Skills(BFT, AFT, Manual Fire Control Secondary Armament) + Signal Flag(Mike Yankee Soxisix).

 

P3d2ZYk.png1zRZYon.png

 

Hope you like it

:honoring:

 

After reading this, buffing Tirpitz secondaries from 4.5 km to 5 km makes even more sense, no matter what the naysayers/ranters keep saying

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After reading this, buffing Tirpitz secondaries from 4.5 km to 5 km makes even more sense, no matter what the naysayers/ranters keep saying

 

Tirpitz already has torps, no need to buff the secondaries or it's going to be too op, and bismarck will be less relevant

(btw, i'm having issues on Imgur, sorry for the image)

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Tirpitz already has torps, no need to buff the secondaries or it's going to be too op, and bismarck will be less relevant

(btw, i'm having issues on Imgur, sorry for the image)

 

I dont see how a 0.5 km buff would make the Bismarck irrelevant.

 

Puls, Do U realize that Sharnhorst/Geneisenau both have torpedoes?

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I dont see how a 0.5 km buff would make the Bismarck irrelevant.

 

Puls, Do U realize that Sharnhorst/Geneisenau both have torpedoes?

 

Scharnhorst and Genisenau are not Tirpitz or Bismarck, no need to compare, they are different ships. Tirpitz is ok the way it's, doesn't need a permanent buff to his secondaries, but yes, could benefit from a temporal buff like i suggest in this thread.

 

 

Edited by SirKenshi

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