Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Seraphil

So now that Mikasa will always see tier 2~3 battles...

17 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,244
Alpha Tester
4,156 posts
8,061 battles

I think it's high-time for a buff of some kind, no?  The quirkiness of the ship was okay when half the time you'd have silly point-blank brawls with tier 1 and 2 gunships(which in my opinion was one of the best things about Mikasa,) but now that she's guaranteed to be bottom-tier all the time vs. tier 3 opponents, which is the tier where rapid-fire torpedoboats are very prevalent, the ship is going to turn into a 31200 HP punching bag for everything that can either sneak up on her or outranges her, which is a majority of the ships she's going to face in battle.

 

With battleships like the Kaiser in the game now with the same caliber of gun, but with a significantly faster ROF, or the Nassau which does almost as much damage per shell but with again significantly faster ROF AND with her own amazing secondary batteries, I think it shouldn't be too much an issue to give Mikasa some quality-of-life improvements.  Particularly either main gun ROF, or secondary battery range increase.  Or do what they did for Yubari/Iwaki/Katori and make the aiming system mod 0 available for Mikasa as well.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
385 posts
16,316 battles

If no buffs, at least limit her to I-II match making. Getting one of these on your team in a tier III match is an unfair liability...I stopped playing mine for now....

Edited by bigalow87

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,519
[SIMP]
Members
1,747 posts

Yep, Mikasa is actually underpowered for Tier 2 (with slow, slow main gun reloads and terrible dispersion), let alone a Tier 3 match.

 

Her greatest strength is her secondaries, and those are pretty much nullified at T2 and T3, because as the OP said, she just becomes a floating target for ranged HE fire, or torp bait for rapid fire DDs.


 

If I'm going to be forced to play in Tier 2 and 3 matches with a BB, the Nassau is my ship of choice with MANY more main guns (that have good fire rates and accuracy), nearly as many secondaries - with BETTER range than the Mikasa, and better armor for better survivability.


 

Mikasa used to be fun to play. It no longer is. :(

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
2,902 posts
6,252 battles

Given that's she's only got two turrets the three options I would see for her

 

1) Dispersion Buff

2) Reload Buff

3) Traverse buff

 

Personally I'd be happy with just a dispersion buff though.  Actually being able to hit something would make the sting of the reload a little less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
60
[TOD]
Members
188 posts
3,784 battles

I agree, agree, agree... I really LOVE the Mikasa. I think she is the finest looking ship in the game (not that it means anything). But also, I love the history of the ship. She is a true naval legacy. She is the only tier II BB in the game and with all the things she has going for her, I LOVE the Mikasa. The problem is that she doesn't love me back. I think it is a shame that she is a burden to play. Her ROF is bad, Her dispersion is horrid, her speed is slow, and her guns (main battery) are few. Please, out of respect for the legacy of this historic Battleship, please fix the Mikasa. She deserves it, and so do the captains that play her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11
[HURTU]
Members
57 posts
5,275 battles

I said this in another Mikasa thread, but I think it bears repeating here

 

She desperately needs a buff since the introduction of protected T1 and the KM BBs. IMO, giving her modification slot 2 so she can mount Secondary Battery Mod 2 and making Aiming Systems Modification 0 available to her would probably fix all of her issues without making her OP.

 

ASM 0 buffs main battery traverse speed by 20% and reduces main battery dispersion by 40%; given the choice between ASM 0 and Auxiliary Armaments Modification 1 which buffs secondary battery survivability by 100%, I'd honestly have a tough time choosing. Mikasa's secondaries can and will get destroyed by all the HE spam, and I've had good results with AAM 1.

 

Base secondary range of 3km

ASM 0 gives +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range & -40% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells --> 3.6km

SBM 2 gives +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range & -20% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells --> 4.3km

AFT gives +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range --> 5.2km

With Manly Secondaries, that -15% to dispersion should stack with the other bonuses, so now Mikasa's secondaries would have -75% to max dispersion

With Mike Yankee Soxisix (+5% to secondary battery max firing range & -5% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells) that comes to 5.4km and -80%

 

So 5.4km range on secondaries with -80% dispersion bonus; that might be pushing it actually

 

If we forget about SBM 2 and just make ASM 0 available to her, secondaries only reach out to 4.5km and the dispersion bonus would only be -60% with full secondary build; that seems more reasonable. Without SBM2, ASM 0 becomes more valuable as well, so the choice between AAM 1 and ASM 0 would be a tough one.

Edited by KniteWulf
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,519
[SIMP]
Members
1,747 posts

I said this in another Mikasa thread, but I think it bears repeating here

 

She desperately needs a buff since the introduction of protected T1 and the KM BBs. IMO, giving her modification slot 2 so she can mount Secondary Battery Mod 2 and making Aiming Systems Modification 0 available to her would probably fix all of her issues without making her OP.

 

ASM 0 buffs main battery traverse speed by 20% and reduces main battery dispersion by 40%; given the choice between ASM 0 and Auxiliary Armaments Modification 1 which buffs secondary battery survivability by 100%, I'd honestly have a tough time choosing. Mikasa's secondaries can and will get destroyed by all the HE spam, and I've had good results with AAM 1.

 

Base secondary range of 3km

ASM 0 gives +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range & -40% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells --> 3.6km

SBM 2 gives +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range & -20% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells --> 4.3km

AFT gives +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range --> 5.2km

With Manly Secondaries, that -15% to dispersion should stack with the other bonuses, so now Mikasa's secondaries would have -75% to max dispersion

With Mike Yankee Soxisix (+5% to secondary battery max firing range & -5% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells) that comes to 5.4km and -80%

 

So 5.4km range on secondaries with -80% dispersion bonus; that might be pushing it actually

 

If we forget about SBM 2 and just make ASM 0 available to her, secondaries only reach out to 4.5km and the dispersion bonus would only be -60% with full secondary build; that seems more reasonable. Without SBM2 ASM 0 becomes more valuable as well, so the choice between AAM 1 and ASM 0 would be a tough one.

 

 

The problem with only buffing her secondaries is that she is constantly thrown in matches with T3 Battleships. Those HE shells, while good at starting fires, don't do bupkis damage-wise against their armor. So her greatest asset is nullified and she essentially just becomes a fire starter (if she ever gets close enough) while being shredded by the T3 BBs main guns, which not only out-range her, but have better dispersion and double or triple the numbers of turrets (plus better penetration, shell arc, etc.)

 

 

If they are going to force this ship to play against higher (but heaven forbid, not LOWER) tier ships, then yes, she needs a buff to her main guns, AND up the ranges on the secondaries.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11
[HURTU]
Members
57 posts
5,275 battles

The problem with only buffing her secondaries is that she is constantly thrown in matches with T3 Battleships. Those HE shells, while good at starting fires, don't do bupkis damage-wise against their armor. So her greatest asset is nullified and she essentially just becomes a fire starter (if she ever gets close enough) while being shredded by the T3 BBs main guns, which not only out-range her, but have better dispersion and double or triple the numbers of turrets (plus better penetration, shell arc, etc.)

 

 

If they are going to force this ship to play against higher (but heaven forbid, not LOWER) tier ships, then yes, she needs a buff to her main guns, AND up the ranges on the secondaries.

It's a fine line to walk with Mikasa; buffing her primary armament might make her incredibly potent at T2, but who knows what that means when she's in a T3 battle with Nassau and Konig Albert galore. Mikasa as she appears in-game is built to her specifications during the Russo-Japanese war; it might make sense to ignore ASM 0 and replace her guns with the 12"/45 41st Year Types she got after the Russo-Japanese war; those are the same guns as on Kawachi, which can do damage to the T3 BBs using AP unlike the guns she has mounted currently.

 

I still think her secondaries could use a buff. If the main guns were replaced, eliminating the need for ASM 0, that could allow SBM 2 to be mounted without making her secondaries OP.

Edited by KniteWulf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,363
[HYD]
Members
7,105 posts
5,289 battles

OK, after having played a few more games with the Mikasa, i see the problem. 

1. The AP pen is ridiculously bad. I can unload a full salvo in to a fully broadside SC or even a Kawachi, and get nothing but bounces at 5km. Coupled with the dispersion, it means that the ship won't be doing much good against tier 3 ships. Heck, even St. Louises bounce my shells if they angle a bit. 

2. Now the secondaries were supposed to be the redeeming feature. But the problem is, the secondary range is too low, so that even in a tier 2-3 battles, they don't come into use all that often. And with the introduction of the Nassau and Konig Albert, the Mikasas secondaries aren't even all that good in comparison.

I said this in another Mikasa thread, but I think it bears repeating here

 

She desperately needs a buff since the introduction of protected T1 and the KM BBs. IMO, giving her modification slot 2 so she can mount Secondary Battery Mod 2 and making Aiming Systems Modification 0 available to her would probably fix all of her issues without making her OP.

 

ASM 0 buffs main battery traverse speed by 20% and reduces main battery dispersion by 40%; given the choice between ASM 0 and Auxiliary Armaments Modification 1 which buffs secondary battery survivability by 100%, I'd honestly have a tough time choosing. Mikasa's secondaries can and will get destroyed by all the HE spam, and I've had good results with AAM 1.

 

Base secondary range of 3km

ASM 0 gives +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range & -40% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells --> 3.6km

SBM 2 gives +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range & -20% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells --> 4.3km

AFT gives +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range --> 5.2km

With Manly Secondaries, that -15% to dispersion should stack with the other bonuses, so now Mikasa's secondaries would have -75% to max dispersion

With Mike Yankee Soxisix (+5% to secondary battery max firing range & -5% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells) that comes to 5.4km and -80%

 

So 5.4km range on secondaries with -80% dispersion bonus; that might be pushing it actually

 

If we forget about SBM 2 and just make ASM 0 available to her, secondaries only reach out to 4.5km and the dispersion bonus would only be -60% with full secondary build; that seems more reasonable. Without SBM2 ASM 0 becomes more valuable as well, so the choice between AAM 1 and ASM 0 would be a tough one.

I'm pretty sure the secondary range and dispersion bonuses are multiplicative (i.e. 1.2X1.2=1.44,  not 1.2+1.2=1.4). So it actually won't be -80% to dispersion. 

Edit* Just ran some numbers, and it's actually around X200% to accuracy, or -50% to dispersion. 

Edited by Aduial
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11
[HURTU]
Members
57 posts
5,275 battles

OK, after having played a few more games with the Mikasa, i see the problem. 

1. The AP pen is ridiculously bad. I can unload a full salvo in to a fully broadside SC or even a Kawachi, and get nothing but bounces at 5km. Coupled with the dispersion, it means that the ship won't be doing much good against tier 3 ships. Heck, even St. Louises bounce my shells if they angle a bit. 

2. Now the secondaries were supposed to be the redeeming feature. But the problem is, the secondary range is too low, so that even in a tier 2-3 battles, they don't come into use all that often. And with the introduction of the Nassau and Konig Albert, the Mikasas secondaries aren't even all that good in comparison.

I'm pretty sure the secondary range and dispersion bonuses are multiplicative (i.e. 1.2X1.2=1.44,  not 1.2+1.2=1.4). So it actually won't be -80% to dispersion. 

Edit* Just ran some numbers, and it's actually around X200% to accuracy, or -50% to dispersion. 

 

It's not so much that her AP bounces (which it likes to do), it straight up shatters on a lot of armor as well, hence my suggestion the turrets be replaced by the 12"/45 41st Year Types she got after the Russo-Japanese war, which are the same guns as on Kawachi.

 

As for secondary range bonus, what I've described is how it works; take Warspite, for example. Her base secondary range is 5km; with SBM 2, that's raised to 6km; now we equip a captain with AFT, and the range is buffed to 7.2km; add Mike Yankee Soxisix and the range goes out to 7.6km (7.56km to be exact).

 

I'm not sure how the dispersion bonus stacking works, however, as I've never seen an explanation anywhere; I simply assumed it was additive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,662
[CALM]
Beta Testers
6,838 posts
6,088 battles

Now would be a great time to implement manually controlled secondaries on Mikasa like they said they would.  Then buff the secondaries' range and accuracy while manually controlled (side-effect is that the main guns now get wonky accuracy while under AI control).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,519
[SIMP]
Members
1,747 posts

Now would be a great time to implement manually controlled secondaries on Mikasa like they said they would.  Then buff the secondaries' range and accuracy while manually controlled (side-effect is that the main guns now get wonky accuracy while under AI control).

 

 

 

If you're talking about something like the 5-point 'Manual secondaries' commander skill - NO, just NO. It takes half the firepower away from the Mikasa that way (only able to shoot off one side of the ship).

 

 

The following is a MUCH better solution to making the Mikasa a viable ship for the tiers it's now forced to play in:

 

 

 

It's not so much that her AP bounces (which it likes to do), it straight up shatters on a lot of armor as well, hence my suggestion the turrets be replaced by the 12"/45 41st Year Types she got after the Russo-Japanese war, which are the same guns as on Kawachi.

 

As for secondary range bonus, what I've described is how it works; take Warspite, for example. Her base secondary range is 5km; with SBM 2, that's raised to 6km; now we equip a captain with AFT, and the range is buffed to 7.2km; add Mike Yankee Soxisix and the range goes out to 7.6km (7.56km to be exact).

 

I'm not sure how the dispersion bonus stacking works, however, as I've never seen an explanation anywhere; I simply assumed it was additive.

 

 

I really like this.

 

Give her the same guns as the Kawachi (and increase her secondary range). This would definitely make her able to complete in T2 and T3 matches better. :great:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,363
[HYD]
Members
7,105 posts
5,289 battles

 

It's not so much that her AP bounces (which it likes to do), it straight up shatters on a lot of armor as well, hence my suggestion the turrets be replaced by the 12"/45 41st Year Types she got after the Russo-Japanese war, which are the same guns as on Kawachi.

 

As for secondary range bonus, what I've described is how it works; take Warspite, for example. Her base secondary range is 5km; with SBM 2, that's raised to 6km; now we equip a captain with AFT, and the range is buffed to 7.2km; add Mike Yankee Soxisix and the range goes out to 7.6km (7.56km to be exact).

 

I'm not sure how the dispersion bonus stacking works, however, as I've never seen an explanation anywhere; I simply assumed it was additive.

 

Whatever the problem is, Mikasa definitely does need something to compete at least semi-decently with tier 3s. Her AP doesn't do anything to tier 3s, with the exception being Tenryu, and her HE sucks as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11
[HURTU]
Members
57 posts
5,275 battles

So I asked in the Reddit dev Q&A about buffing Mikasa; here's Sub_Octavian's response

 

 

What is the likelyhood of WG reconsidering a buff for Mikasa? I have suggested elsewhere that simply giving her Aiming Systems Mod 0 would be enough to make her competitive. 

 

It would make her OP. -40% to dispersion is a tremendous buff for any BB. We are not planning to buff her anyways. She's unique and cannot be compared to other BBs for obvious reasons, but among other tier II ships she looks absolutely fine in terms of stats. As for her gameplay - it is quite specific, and will remain such.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,363
[HYD]
Members
7,105 posts
5,289 battles

among other tier II ships she looks absolutely fine in terms of stats

 

This is a dumb thing to say. Which players are playing the Mikasa? The experienced ones that were able to get 150 kills within a short time span a couple of months ago, or old players who have been playing for a very long time. In other words, players who have have played the game a lot and know what they are doing. 

Now, who are the people that are playing the other tier 2 ships? Aside from the occasional seal clubber, most of the people at those tiers are very new, and have absolutely no idea what they are doing. Hence it makes zero sense to use stats as a reason to not buff the Mikasa. 

I think WG is too focused on flat statistics to see beyond them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×