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mustangman6579

Maybe it's just me, but I find upper tier gameplay utter crap.

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As someone who is just getting into t8+ matches with his new t8 ships, I find T8+ gameplay crap. 

 

It's 2 teams sitting just outside of range of each other, taking popshots at spotted DDs. Then maybe one team will push and the other team will run away to stay out of range yet again. 

 

Right now I only have t8 DDs, and I am hating playing them. I almost never get support as the team is normally too far away to help. Many might say, the answer to this is to fall back to the team. But what do you do when the team is completely unusable and you are being capped out?

 

The level of scared players in these upper tiers is driving me nuts. Worse than WoT. 

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It costs a lot to paint ships you know...

 

Pretty much. *sits on millions of credits*

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it's different, not crap. I was in that game. 

 

Ask not who on your team can help you, but who on your team you can help. Seriously.

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Is the solution to lower ship repair costs? I keep hearing that t9 and 10 ships costs a LOT to repair. So it is basically it's so high, that no one wants to take risks? In WoT t20 is spendy to run, but if you do well, even when you die you can make money. Is that not the case here?

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it's different, not crap. I was in that game. 

 

Ask not who on your team can help you, but who on your team you can help. Seriously.

 

My game crashed, but if you were in the same as me, then you'd know there was nothing a DD player could have done with that team. 

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  • Nobody wants to push because first to push = first to sink. This creates the proverbial "race to be the slowest".
  • Help from teammates is far from assured because 90% don't read the chat, watch the minimap or actually wish to engage except at maximum range.

  • Once people set their mind on retreat, they only stop at the border and not when it's expedient to stand and fight (or even chase).
  • Cool 5

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What i find most annoying is the bow-on/ reverse-forward style of play of the high tier BBs. If carriers were around, no one would do that. But since they feel safe sitting there with their armor angled, nothing will stop them. This leads to a largely static gameplay. BBs don't advance because they don't want to get torped, CAs don't advanced because they will get deleted, and IJN DDs cannot contest caps. So this largely leaves the Soviet and American DDs running the show. Of course, they get blamed when the team loses, because it's apparently their job to make the team win. 

(note: massive generalization here, but still, you know what i mean)



:hide_turtle:

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  • Nobody wants to push because first to push = first to sink. This creates the proverbial "race to be the slowest".
  • Help from teammates is far from assured because 90% don't read the chat, watch the minimap or actually wish to engage except at maximum range.
  • Once people set their mind on retreat, they only stop at the border and not when it's expedient to stand and fight (or even chase).

 

Is there a way that we can change the first one? The next two I don't think can ever be changed as it's playerbased. 

 

Is spotting too easy maybe? I know some games in my BB, I'll be spotted like 30s into the match. 

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My game crashed, but if you were in the same as me, then you'd know there was nothing a DD player < > could have done with that team. 

< of my capability >

 

You know what didn't help at all? going into a situation alone, die, and then proceed to complain about not having support. Other players have their own engagements, own concerns, beyond yours. They aren't just at your disposal.

 

The reality is, out of 2 teams one of them has to lose. When a team loses 2 or 3 more ships than the other, it will usually snowball from there. Coming back from this deficit is hard to do, especially if the currently winning team is much better positioned. 

  • Cool 2

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  • Nobody wants to push because first to push = first to sink. This creates the proverbial "race to be the slowest".
  • Help from teammates is far from assured because 90% don't read the chat, watch the minimap or actually wish to engage except at maximum range.
  • Once people set their mind on retreat, they only stop at the border and not when it's expedient to stand and fight (or even chase).

 

This ^ and more

 

Yes, it costs a lot of credits to repair tier 8-10. This game has made it exorbitantly expensive to play the higher tiers. This is of course to encourage more people to play with the newbs. And yet, the snipe happy aspect of the game is killing you.

 

I see that you have the lo Yang. That is a great DD, and very fun to play. If you really get good in it, you can make 400-500k profit every other game. Just watch how this guy plays his: 

 

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< of my capability >

 

You know what didn't help at all? going into a situation alone, die, and then proceed to complain about not having support. Other players have their own engagements, own concerns, beyond yours. They aren't just at your disposal.

 

The reality is, out of 2 teams one of them has to lose. When a team loses 2 or 3 more ships than the other, it will usually snowball from there. Coming back from this deficit is hard to do, especially if the currently winning team is much better positioned. 

 

Then I don't think we were in the same game, as I didn't die. I finally got fed up with trying to defend B as the team did nothing. 

 

One guy tried to say I was too far out to help...Since when is the middle of the map in a cap too far? Oh wait, it is when the entire team is cowering in the corner of that map. 

Edited by mustangman6579

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I make about 50k per game in zao, no prem acct, and am about average. At least 200 per in tirp, probably more honestly. Now ibuki was a different story. Definitely not impossible to make money at high tiers. I can run zao for hours and break even usually running prem equipment and camo (about 50k extra).

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  • Nobody wants to push because first to push = first to sink. This creates the proverbial "race to be the slowest".
  • Help from teammates is far from assured because 90% don't read the chat, watch the minimap or actually wish to engage except at maximum range.
  • Once people set their mind on retreat, they only stop at the border and not when it's expedient to stand and fight (or even chase).

 

Is there a way that we can change the first one? The next two I don't think can ever be changed as it's playerbased. 

 

Is spotting too easy maybe? I know some games in my BB, I'll be spotted like 30s into the match. 

 

 

Only changes that are player-based are changes that "we" can effect, because "we" are the players.  "We" are NOT the devs.  :facepalm:  (Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine that people use "we" when they are not a part of the "we" that could make the changes they'd like to see happen.)

 

As for spotting, many BB's are spotted very easily.  It's just the nature of the beast.  You can equip the concealment upgrade module and with a 15+ skill point captain, take Concealment Expert to improve in this area.  But honestly, it's not really worth it for all high tier BB's.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Crucis

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< of my capability >

 

You know what didn't help at all? going into a situation alone, die, and then proceed to complain about not having support. Other players have their own engagements, own concerns, beyond yours. They aren't just at your disposal.

 

The reality is, out of 2 teams one of them has to lose. When a team loses 2 or 3 more ships than the other, it will usually snowball from there. Coming back from this deficit is hard to do, especially if the currently winning team is much better positioned. 

 

Then I don't think we were in the same game, as I didn't die. I finally got fed up with trying to defend B as the team did nothing. 

 

One guy tried to say I was too far out to help...Since when is the middle of the map in a cap too far? Oh wait, it is when the entire team is cowering in the corner of that map. 

 

Mustang, while you may not have been the person Puli describes above, there are far too many aggressive players who it does describe.  This sort of player charges off in some direction, and EXPECTS and DEMANDS that other players support his play style decisions at their own expense.   And when they don't, as Puli points out, they start complaining about not being supported, as if they had some holy right to be supported.

 

 

 

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I actually find tier 4-8 games quite fun. Not too low where it's just a lolfest, but not too high where battles lose the fun and become a chore. Which is why I will never go higher than tier 8, I just don't feel like it's necessary. Ships like the Arkansas, Kamikaze, Kongo, Myoko, Amagi, Bayern and Gneisenau are the fun ones.

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Then I don't think we were in the same game, as I didn't die. I finally got fed up with trying to defend B as the team did nothing. 

 

One guy tried to say I was too far out to help...Since when is the middle of the map in a cap too far? Oh wait, it is when the entire team is cowering in the corner of that map. 

 

No, I wasn't talking about you.

You: "nobody supporting us DDs"

Me: "You mean like the benson at A1?"

 

That whole second line is a lie in fact. Nobody said that to you. It's not the position on the map but the distance from the team. And our team was not all in the corner. Near the end of the match, yes they ended up that way. This isn't because they were there the whole time. They were about 3-4 map squares from the enemy the whole time. Losing teams tend to get pushed back.

 

Repair costs at high tier have been reduced by up to 40% in past months to test the effects. Playstyles did not change. they didn't need to. High tiers play conservatively because players are better. They know that mistakes will be punished. Every now and then you get threads like these from players who just got to high tier or have been there a while, but they both just don't get it yet. One team almost always loses, the losing team most often gets pushed back. They aren't afraid, they just know better than to throw their ship away in a blind rush.

 

Bad players are at every tier, whether too risky or too far in the back. Those are a minority.

  • Cool 1

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Some player like to push late forward when half of their team mate die and enemy has low health, he just come and sweep the kill..:angry:

 

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As a player who mainly play T10 as CA solo (Not long range invis fire Zao and de facto BB Moskva but Des Mione and Hindenburg), I always find it amusing so many people complain about high tier battle being long-range snipe fest and no one move forward...

I mean, are we actually playing the same game? Yes, there are occasionally slow and camper team, but it's rare to be a snipe fest. Usually when one team just camp back at the spawn, the other team will push forward and crush them, most likely from 2 sides which make the camper team unable to angle.

And all those complain about border camping and sitting at the corner? Honestly I see them more in mid-tier battle. Usually on high tier game when a BB is near the corner it's because the game is mostly set.

Don't know much on low-tier as I don't play ship below tier 6.  

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What i find most annoying is the bow-on/ reverse-forward style of play of the high tier BBs. If carriers were around, no one would do that. But since they feel safe sitting there with their armor angled, nothing will stop them. This leads to a largely static gameplay. BBs don't advance because they don't want to get torped, CAs don't advanced because they will get deleted, and IJN DDs cannot contest caps. So this largely leaves the Soviet and American DDs running the show. Of course, they get blamed when the team loses, because it's apparently their job to make the team win. 

(note: massive generalization here, but still, you know what i mean)



:hide_turtle:

 

   Agree with this. Let's all realize too that we sound like drivers complaining about how everyone else drives. We are not all insane, therefore, it's a little bit the nature of the beast. I will say that my Fletcher games seem fine (see above) and my Des Moines games were great; I saw plenty of aggression albeit the Des games were before repair costs kicked back in.

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As a player who hasn't made it past Tier 8 yet I can say I'm in no hurry to get there. Which is a shame because Tier 8 and up ships are the best looking/performing ships in the game.  It's frustrating at mid tiers when you are trying to perform and the team composition just turns into potato soup. It just seems it would be more aggravating further up due to the cost of playing and the reported/observed meta at those levels.  I don't see how this makes money for the game company making people hesitate in progression. 

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  • Nobody wants to push because first to push = first to sink. This creates the proverbial "race to be the slowest".
  • Help from teammates is far from assured because 90% don't read the chat, watch the minimap or actually wish to engage except at maximum range.
  • Once people set their mind on retreat, they only stop at the border and not when it's expedient to stand and fight (or even chase).

 

< of my capability >

 

You know what didn't help at all? going into a situation alone, die, and then proceed to complain about not having support. Other players have their own engagements, own concerns, beyond yours. They aren't just at your disposal.

 

The reality is, out of 2 teams one of them has to lose. When a team loses 2 or 3 more ships than the other, it will usually snowball from there. Coming back from this deficit is hard to do, especially if the currently winning team is much better positioned. 

 

​These two posters say it. I've found that a little patience goes a long way. IF you don't fall behind, as Pulicat says, in the first half of the game AND, as gurudennis mentioned, you are able to watch the minimap and are willing to engage during the second half you, as a DD, can usually make a difference and either lead the team to victory or provide critical support to those ships making the push. Going out and yolo'ing with a "get this cap and defend attitude" will get you sunk quick and early. The T8+ playstyle, whether anyone likes it or not, is different and you HAVE to adapt to it. Too many independent minds out there to bend all of them to your will.

 

Thanks for the posts gents, +1!

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Repair costs at high tier have been reduced by up to 40% in past months to test the effects. Playstyles did not change. they didn't need to. High tiers play conservatively because players are better. They know that mistakes will be punished. Every now and then you get threads like these from players who just got to high tier or have been there a while, but they both just don't get it yet. One team almost always loses, the losing team most often gets pushed back. They aren't afraid, they just know better than to throw their ship away in a blind rush.

 

Bad players are at every tier, whether too risky or too far in the back. Those are a minority.

 

Puli, I think that another part of the problem is that the repair cost reductions came too late.  Far too many players have had their high tier play style habits too deeply engrained for a mere month of reduced repair costs to significantly change.    Having said that, there's no guarantee that if the repair costs had been set at this lower level from day 1, that it would have caused players to play differently.  But it is possible that it might have.  Anyways, I think that for the reduced repair costs to have a long term effect on tier 9-10 play styles, the change needs to be left in place for a much longer period of time than a mere month. 

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