How about more realistic bot tactics

[Conundrum_2016]

Now I know that AI sux and games must do what they can to make the bot characters competitive but there are also those times that they make no sense.

Like when your lower on health, and a cruiser from half way around the world will start taking pot shots at you even though a battleship or cruiser is right in front of them and killing them.

This BORG collective mentality to gang up on the competition is out of control. NO one does that, except in a video game, they attach whom is near them. And the only reason they know a person is that low on health is because bots cheat because they know everything. Historically many have been fooled with appearance that something was dead or destroyed.

The odds are against us enough on the battlefield, how about giving us a little break on something that shouldn't be happening in the first place. Its unrealistic by any stretch of the imagination.

[Macabe]

It doesn't need to be realistic. Bots are too easy as it is. A break isn't needed. 

[Conundrum_2016]

ok, well, if not for calling it being called a break, how about just common sense. Bots are easy but that is a dumbed down attitude to take if you want to use it as an excuse. Each of us are competing to make points, which in turn aids us on our way to developing our ships. And some of us at least have served on ships, have been involved or exposed to war tactics. We play based on our knowledge of such. So you can be as great as you like at the game but get shorted on the points because of unrealistic little quirks in the game that have no logical sense

I mean if you want to just think of this as a video game, then lets all go back to atari's astroids then. Why bother to have a setting of war ships and making semi realistic conditions / scenery in the game if you violate the most basic of common sense understandings.

The game is too much fluff for noobs that know nothing about tactics or ships, they just want to push a button and blow stuff up. You see it every time some destroyer runs off to sink the carrier and abandons his team. or the glory hound that runs straight out into 5 ships and sinks in under a minute. They die fast or get little in points justifiably, the game takes care of that all by itself. But when you weaken the team, you actually might be he cause for its defeated...all because of noobish behavior. Its up to the 'exceptional' members at that time to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, and you wan't do it with slights here and there that make it nearly impossible since the odds are stacked against you. In an all out battle where people pull their own weight, ya, there isn't a big deal but in the dire of times like you VS 4 enemies, your F'd. And you really don't need the odds against you when your using your wits to win (but getting cheated).

I've also had smoke show up in an all Cruiser fight. ... ???? Go figure.

 

Point is, there are little discrepancies in the game that make no sense and can't be justified EXCEPT by lazy gamers that have a dumbed down approach of knowing they can just hit the reset button and try again. More evolved gamers like to pit their wits against a game as a challenge

[Viper069]

OP, all I play is PvP and you pretty much just described half the playerbase. 

 

[Umikami]

Now I know that AI sux and games must do what they can to make the bot characters competitive but there are also those times that they make no sense.

Like when your lower on health, and a cruiser from half way around the world will start taking pot shots at you even though a battleship or cruiser is right in front of them and killing them.

This BORG collective mentality to gang up on the competition is out of control. NO one does that, except in a video game, they attach whom is near them. And the only reason they know a person is that low on health is because bots cheat because they know everything. Historically many have been fooled with appearance that something was dead or destroyed.

The odds are against us enough on the battlefield, how about giving us a little break on something that shouldn't be happening in the first place. Its unrealistic by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Killing damaged or wounded ships first is a sound battle tactic, because you eliminate a set number of enemy weapons for a reduced cost (the ship is already damaged). This is the same logic that dictates that if attacked by a DD, a CA, and a BB, you kill the DD first, the CA next, and the BB last, because removing the smaller ships, and their firepower, is easiest.

 

It would be foolish, and make less tactical sense, to NOT kill a DD or CA that had low health and could be neutralized with one or two volleys when torpedos and guns from that ship still fire at 100% efficiency. Dead from a torp on a 5% health DD IS STILL DEAD.

 

 

The odds ARE against us, so it would be in your best interest to study tactics of naval engagement before telling people how wrong they are.

[Raptor_alcor]

The AI does cheat, and it's time for a certain set of idiots to stop dismissing every complaint with "it's too easy" and actually give suggestions as to how wargaming can fix what ATLEAST 20% of the population plays rather consistantly. 

 

Through testing I have confirmed the AI has knowledge of where every single player is at all times, even ships that haven't been detected once through out the game. I don't know about everyone else but even if the bots are easy it's stupid that they are progamming bots that cheat so much the mario kart AI looks like it's playing legit. 

[SandraSmiles]

Iowa bots have a tighter turn radius than a Molotov.

Higher Tier enemy BBs have faster turrets than allied BBs..

Enemy AI more accurate with their guns than allied AI

Enemy Torp dodging more successful than allied dodging

Etc, Etc.

 

Just keep in mind that those of us that enjoy coop are facing a different kind of enemy.

We face enemies that can reload faster, dodge torps well enough, release accurate fire placements using faster turrets speeds, etc.

 

We face a different enemy than random players do.

And since, well... random players can't excel the metrics of any given boat they're driving (like the coop enemy can)-

well, do the math.

I would suggest those spitting on coop to stay out of coop.

 

[ADM_Zakk_Zero]

The AI does cheat, and it's time for a certain set of idiots to stop dismissing every complaint with "it's too easy" and actually give suggestions as to how wargaming can fix what ATLEAST 20% of the population plays rather consistantly. 

 

Through testing I have confirmed the AI has knowledge of where every single player is at all times, even ships that haven't been detected once through out the game. I don't know about everyone else but even if the bots are easy it's stupid that they are progamming bots that cheat so much the mario kart AI looks like it's playing legit. 

It's probably done to add a challenge and make things interesting for human opponents, but yup, they sure do. I suspected bots frequently- not always, but frequently- did exhibit a "sixth sense". I thought I was crazy- and was told as much across a few threads- for suggesting it. Often AI fleets would inexplicably form a tight group and race directly to where a lone remaining stealthy DD was hiding in a corner to gang-sink it when the human team was up by points and time was about to expire. I also love getting citadeled by a bot BB that's 2x farther away than my camo-dressed, AA-off, guns-have-been-silent DD's max detection range, especially when that BB is the closest enemy vessel or aircraft that could have spotted me. Curiously, neither of those has ever happened to me in PvP.  

Iowa bots have a tighter turn radius than a Molotov.

Higher Tier enemy BBs have faster turrets than allied BBs..

Enemy AI more accurate with their guns than allied AI

Enemy Torp dodging more successful than allied dodging

Etc, Etc.

 

Just keep in mind that those of us that enjoy coop are facing a different kind of enemy.

We face enemies that can reload faster, dodge torps well enough, release accurate fire placements using faster turrets speeds, etc.

 

We face a different enemy than random players do.

And since, well... random players can't excel the metrics of any given boat they're driving (like the coop enemy can)-

well, do the math.

I would suggest those spitting on coop to stay out of coop.

 

Holy cow! Good to know! I did not know all that. There are so many times I've suspected "anomalies" in co-op but in the heat of battle it's often tough to objectively confirm them. The free zoom cam is fun as you can often see things you wouldn't notice otherwise if you were limited to your own ship's perspective and engaged in battle. I think some players that insult co-op get the wrong idea from playing a proportionately small amount of games in PvE compared to their large amount of PvP games. It's fair to say most randomers probably could come back and have a few consecutive good games and understandably get the wrong idea.

I've said across several threads that for fun I like to look at the stats of posters who say co-op is easy. Most of them have good or even great stats in both PvE and PvP, but play only a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of their games in co-op.  It amazes me how they could think such a small sample size would qualify them to arrive at an accurate conclusion compared to the folks that live, breath, and die in co-op day in and day out.  If they suggest tactics, strategies, and tips on how to improve, well, that I'll take as gospel. 

Inspired by a thread that suggested a player's RNG fate was set upon login for any given session, I recently started an experiment to test that theory as well as others. A fellow WoWS player I know who is far more skilled than me has almost 2K random battles and about 200 co-ops, so they play 90% random.  I, on the other hand, play about 90% co-op. He and I flip flop computers to play PvE on each others accounts. We set the ships used and captains to exactly mimic each other. So far after a half dozen sessions of about 10 PvE games each, whoever uses his account to play has about 96% win rate and rarely sinks. Whoever uses my account has a win rate closer to 85% and frequently sinks. This has been duplicated over every session, without exception. I know this is not scientific and doesn't prove anything, of course, but does suggest: 1) there may be a dynamic to push frequent co-op players to random, and rewards randomers who only occasionally play PvE, and 2) that this is the reason randomers who insist co-op is always very easy could understandably get the wrong idea.  Just something to think about. 

All in all, I love the game and I'll keep playing it despite any and all shenanigans. How much money I'll sink into it, however, is a completely different story. Only time and rolled out improvements and fixes will tell....