Let's Talk Game Economy

[TheBlueFalconer]

 

As some of you may remember back in June there was an announcement that WG was going to be reducing the repair costs for high tier ships. A whopping 40% reduction for tier X and a 25% reduction for tiers VII-IX, and there was much rejoicing (obligatory Monty Python reference). This past week however that test ended, and repair costs for high tier ships went back to the old levels. Now it has only been a week and this is entirely anecdotal evidence but the long range BB snipe meta has become more and more prevalent once again. High tier players don't want to risk losing their ships and end up paying a ridiculous amount of credits to repair their ships. It would be one thing if you had a bad game and didn't do a whole lot of damage and lost for instance, in that case losing credits is in my opinion acceptable. It's the game's way of telling you that you need to start doing something different. The problem is when you win, do a good amount of damage, and earn a sizable amount of XP, and then see the post battle results you still lose credits because you took damage during the game sometimes even with a premium account. 

 

This promotes such a toxic and stagnant style of gameplay that most people I know do not enjoy and I fear the complaints of BB's sitting in the back sniping and long range torpedo meta will return in the coming weeks. I made this video in an attempt to start a discussion about how we as a gaming community want the economy of the game to guide players into doing specific things. At its core, the game economy is there to encourage players to do things that are important for the success of the team i.e. damage, capping, kills etc. When you have a good game and you feel like you had an impact, then look at the post game results and see that you either lost money or made very little does not encourage you to continue playing that way. In its current state, the game economy encourages you to play as safe as possible to not incur the high repair costs associated with taking damage. 

 

I cover more of my thoughts about this change in my video and to be honest it's only been a week and WG did say they would analyze the results and make a decision but I don't have an over abundance of confidence that WG will divulge this information especially since this directly affects sales on things like premium time and premium ships. For now we will just have to wait and see what WG do but if the repair cost reductions don't return in some form or another I fear the high tier games will become significantly more boring and stagnant. 

[TenguBlade]

I certainly agree with this.  I've once again become, it seems, the only Yamato user on the server who is willing to push, repair costs be damned.

[Terrible_Turtle]

You want to be top tier? You're going to have to sacrifice something.

 

This also helps encourage mid-tier credit grinding. This is important to keep the population high for matchmaking purposes. For those that don't want to play lower tiers, then you'll need premium and flags. 

 

While they may reduce repair costs slightly in the future, they'll always be high. It's a smart move by WG.

 

As for the high tier meta, it's less dependent on the credit cost and more dependent on the generally passive tendencies of the server player base. I've heard the RU server tends to be more aggressive and "pushy". I see sniping BBs even at tier 5 and 6 which is symptomatic of something deeper than fear of credit loss. 

[goldeagle1123]

You want to be top tier? You're going to have to sacrifice something.

 

This also helps encourage mid-tier credit grinding. This is important to keep the population high for matchmaking purposes. For those that don't want to play lower tiers, then you'll need premium and flags.

 

While they may reduce repair costs slightly in the future, they'll always be high. It's a smart move by WG.

 

What would be smart is making tier 9 and 10 playable.

[Mesrith]

The problem is when you win, do a good amount of damage, and earn a sizable amount of XP, and then see the post battle results you still lose credits because you took damage during the game sometimes even with a premium account. 

 

It's too high.  I win very often, deal high amounts of damage, kill ships at a high rate, and survive at a high rate.  I have plenty of credits and don't care about losing them.  I pay for a premium account and have plenty of -10% repair cost flags.  I can break even or even make money while playing my tier 10s, but the game should not be balanced around what the top 10% of players are able to do.

 

An average player with a premium account should at least break even at tier 10.  That is not currently happening.  If 40% reduction was too much, then apply 20-30% but make it permanent.  There is already very little reason to play tier 10 ships (no end-game competitive modes), let alone grind all the way up the different lines to obtain them.  Reducing the interest in even playing tier 10s in random battles due to repair costs is an issue that I thought was resolved by the temporary discounts.  I never thought that the terrible mistake of going back to the old repair costs was something that would actually be done.

[Royeaux]

You want to be top tier? You're going to have to sacrifice something.

 

This also helps encourage mid-tier credit grinding. This is important to keep the population high for matchmaking purposes. For those that don't want to play lower tiers, then you'll need premium and flags. 

 

While they may reduce repair costs slightly in the future, they'll always be high. It's a smart move by WG.

 

As for the high tier meta, it's less dependent on the credit cost and more dependent on the generally passive tendencies of the server player base. I've heard the RU server tends to be more aggressive and "pushy". I see sniping BBs even at tier 5 and 6 which is symptomatic of something deeper than fear of credit loss. 

 

Why even have the higher tiers if we're not meant to actually "play" them???

[Terrible_Turtle]

 

It's too high.  I win very often, deal high amounts of damage, kill ships at a high rate, and survive at a high rate.  I have plenty of credits and don't care about losing them.  I pay for a premium account and have plenty of -10% repair cost flags.  I can break even or even make money while playing my tier 10s, but the game should not be balanced around what the top 10% of players are able to do.

 

An average player with a premium account should at least break even at tier 10.  That is not currently happening.  If 40% reduction was too much, then apply 20-30% but make it permanent.  There is already very little reason to play tier 10 ships (no end-game competitive modes), let alone grind all the way up the different lines to obtain them.  Reducing the interest in even playing tier 10s in random battles due to repair costs is an issue that I thought was resolved by the temporary discounts.  I never thought that the terrible mistake of going back to the old repair costs was something that would actually be done.

 

Can't argue with that. +1

[aether_tech]

What is it like to lose credits in high tier games? I dont understand how that feels.

[TheBlueFalconer]

You want to be top tier? You're going to have to sacrifice something.

 

This also helps encourage mid-tier credit grinding. This is important to keep the population high for matchmaking purposes. For those that don't want to play lower tiers, then you'll need premium and flags. 

 

While they may reduce repair costs slightly in the future, they'll always be high. It's a smart move by WG.

 

As for the high tier meta, it's less dependent on the credit cost and more dependent on the generally passive tendencies of the server player base. I've heard the RU server tends to be more aggressive and "pushy". I see sniping BBs even at tier 5 and 6 which is symptomatic of something deeper than fear of credit loss. 

Sacrifice to be top tier? I believe that if someone has a tier X than they already have, if they have ground through the entire line and spent dozens of hours of their life they should be able to play whatever ship they want as long as they perform decently in it.

And a lot of people seem to believe that mid tiers will become a ghost town if everyone doesn't have to grind credits to play their tier X's. If mid tiers are a ghost town then the game has much greater problems than high tier credit earning. I have 4-5 tier 9-10 ships and I still enjoy playing my mid and low tiers all the time. Again this is anecdotal but I don't believe that having a sustainable high tier economy would break MM.

[Macabe]

I'd like to see the return of lower repair costs but ultimately it's not going to affect me either way. Tier 10 is a great place that i can just dump my credits into. Lower repair costs didn't help the meta and i haven't seen any dfference from before, during, or after the change.

[VTAdmiral]

I certainly agree with this.  I've once again become, it seems, the only Yamato user on the server who is willing to push, repair costs be damned.

 

All of my best and most memorable Yamato games have involved me pushing into the enemy cap while supported by my team.

 

it just happens so infrequently.

[DokturProfesur]

I'd like to see the return of lower repair costs but ultimately it's not going to affect me either way. Tier 10 is a great place that i can just dump my credits into. Lower repair costs didn't help the meta and i haven't seen any dfference from before, during, or after the change.

 

I did like the lower repair costs for the merit of it actually encouraging people to give it a shot. People don't like running on losses, so the increased chance of profit would just mean more people would give it a shot at the very least. High tier is nearly dead as it is.

 

11k last night, nobody was playing high tier at all.

[Cpt_Kill_Jack]

I personally will always push with support in my battleships. I personally have almost 180 Million Credits. I dont care how much it costs. I can run some of my Premiums to recoup any costs. But I do want the team to go with me. A battleship alone is a dead battleship.

[RedSeaBear]

I noticed the repair costs going back up. Had a good game in my Fubuki, did close to 100k damage but took a beating to help my team win. But with camo, premium damage control and repair costs I still lost money. 

Then the next game was driving my Fletcher and it was a camp fest, thankfully my team found some guts and pushed into the caps. The enemy team was timid and didn't do much. My team won on caps even though they had more ships but I barely broke even on the battle because it was hard to do damage to those campers. 

 

But I'm for any thing that will combat the campy meta so many big ships seem to have en grained into their play style. Its frusterating to have you high tier battle ships or cruisers sitting in the back or sailing around the edges, sniping at long range. And they wonder why they don't do enough damage and suffer so many defeats. So if reducing the repair cost at the higher tiers helps change the games meta, than do it now please. 

[Francois424]

Playing PvE, it's even worse there.  It made a difference for T7 as well I think.

Less repair costs would be welcomed.

 

I guess we should necro Dr. Venture's thread which had like 90+ likes.

[Terrible_Turtle]

Sacrifice to be top tier? I believe that if someone has a tier X than they already have, if they have ground through the entire line and spent dozens of hours of their life they should be able to play whatever ship they want as long as they perform decently in it.

And a lot of people seem to believe that mid tiers will become a ghost town if everyone doesn't have to grind credits to play their tier X's. If mid tiers are a ghost town then the game has much greater problems than high tier credit earning. I have 4-5 tier 9-10 ships and I still enjoy playing my mid and low tiers all the time. Again this is anecdotal but I don't believe that having a sustainable high tier economy would break MM.

 

I understand the reasoning, and I don't disagree. I think they need to be reduced, but not to the degree many people think it should. Being top tier is a significant reward in itself such that I'm okay with losing credits from time to time.

 

As it stands now, I'm teetering on the brink. After purchasing the Khab, I'm at 1M credits and will need to start grinding the mid tiers soon. 

[DokturProfesur]

I play my battleships to soak up as much damage for my team as possible. So what if Wargaming doesn't reward me, tanking is an essential part of the game and I'm happy to do the service.

[IronWolfV]

I'd like to see the return of lower repair costs but ultimately it's not going to affect me either way. Tier 10 is a great place that i can just dump my credits into. Lower repair costs didn't help the meta and i haven't seen any dfference from before, during, or after the change.

 

This right here. I haven't seen any change in the meta. It's the simple fact of people like to be snipers in the NA and have no gumption to get up close and personal in a fight.

[HazardDrake]

What is it like to lose credits in high tier games? I dont understand how that feels.

Feels like playing a decent mid-tier game to make up the losses.

 

I have three tier 9s, two tier 10s, all fully outfitted, and I'm still positive cash flow. Part of it is premium account. Part is being able to find my own *** without a map and a flashlight. Part is having a bunch of mid-tier ships that I like to play. Part is a few premium ships.

[Yugumo]

What is the best ship for seal clubbing at mid tier that makes tons of credits and ensure a win? CV CV CV..

You just delete all enemy DDs win the battle then made new players hate CV and got reported yourself.

 

I actually didn't relize the repair cost is back. Only found my performance at tier 10 is much lower recently, probablly because of cautious game play style of both teams 0.0

[Grandpas_Sausage_Slinger]

I am sorry but the economics have become a joke...I just played 5 games in my t9 Fletch...3 wins and 2 losses and I lost over 300k in credits without premium. its obvious that WG simply wants $$ and I have had Premium most of the time before the last couple of days....time to find another game as they are done getting my $$ as even with Premium and I logged it, I would basically break even on credits. Time to play Steel Ocean for a bit.

 

 

At least WoT you could make a small amount of credits without premium.

[gurudennis]

The other side of the medal is the popularity of T10 ships. You see, with T8 (being the main high-income premium tier) ships seeing T10 with alarming regularity due to the sheer number of T10 ships in the queue, WG's income and paying player satisfaction must have been on the decline in the past couple weeks after the MM patch. I think it's fitting that T10 should become a "rarity" tier once again.

[Royeaux]

The other side of the medal is the popularity of T10 ships. You see, with T8 (being the main high-income premium tier) ships seeing T10 with alarming regularity due to the sheer number of T10 ships in the queue, WG's income and paying player satisfaction must have been on the decline in the past couple weeks after the MM patch. I think it's fitting that T10 should become a "rarity" tier once again.

 

That is another problem.  Tier 10 balance.  If your in a tier 8 Battleship, your going to be so outmatched by Yamatos that effectively you can't do anything.  You might as well be a Kawachi fighting a Kongo.  I feel like with tier 8 ships, there needs to be some kind of limit on how many tier 10s can be in the match, cause so often no tier 9's to fill out the roster, causing this horrific prey (tier 8) / predator (predator) round.  Tier 8 ships can handle one or two tier 10s, when half the match is made up of 10s, the best option is to retreat to the back of the map and wait it out.

[Grandpas_Sausage_Slinger]

I don't even have a t10...hard to get there with no credits. I have 13 million and now its going down fast. We all know the [edited]is that they want to have everyone pay for the game, then don't act like its free. I even have some premiums and they still make crap money. Like I said, I will download Steel Ocean like most of my friends and give it a try. until then WG is getting NO $$ as I can see the nickel and dime train rolling into town.

[gurudennis]

I don't even have a t10...hard to get there with no credits. I have 13 million and now its going down fast. We all know the [edited]is that they want to have everyone pay for the game, then don't act like its free. I even have some premiums and they still make crap money. Like I said, I will download Steel Ocean like most of my friends and give it a try. until then WG is getting NO $$ as I can see the nickel and dime train rolling into town.

 

Good luck with the Chinese knockoff. It's exactly like the watches and the consumer electronics.

 

If you're running premium time, which you should, losing credits until T8 is almost unheard of, and not really something you have to worry about until T10 provided you do your hitpoints' worth in damage.