Lert's ADLA attempt: SMS Fürst Bismarck (1897)

[Lert]

Hello and welcome to yet another thread where I pretend to know what I'm talking about. This time the unique armored cruiser Fürst Bismarck.

 

1902 lithograph of S.M. Grosser Kreuzer Fürst Bismarck. Isn't she a beauty? Here is a link to an extreme resolution version of this image.

 

"But, admirable and handsome Lert, haven't you written about this ship before?"

 

Yes I have, in this thread. But, same as with the Admiralen ADLA, I wanted to bring that thread up to date to an ADLA style, as established by dseehafer. I will be copypasting some basic infirmation from that thread to this one, especially about the history and design of the ship.

 

The stately lady at anchor.

 

Laid down in 1896, launched in 1897 and commissioned by the Kaiserliche Marine in 1900, the unique ship Fürst Bismarck ('Regent Bismarck') was Germany's first armored cruiser. She displaced 11.461 tons full load and measured 127 meters long. For a turn-of-the-century, 11k ton cruiser, she carried a pretty heavy gun load. Everyone's favorite tier 3 floating gun platform St Louis for example displaced only several hundred tons less, but had to do with a only a few more 152mm barrels for main armament as Fürst Bismarck carried for secondaries, and only slightly over half the armor thickness of this tuetonic lady. In a direct duel, Fürst Bismarck would probably blow the later vintage St Louis clear out of the water and leave nothing but a bad smell.

 

Her career is decidedly less impressive than her armor and armament suggests. She spent most of it patrolling in East Asia, and served part of WWI as a coastal defense ship. However, by this time she was starting to show her age and proved less-than-adequate to the task. She was decommissioned and sold for scrap in 1919, having accomplished nothing of note - but looking good while doing it.

 

So how, if at all, would Fürst Bismarck fit into the game?

 

Tonnage:

 

11,461 ton full load

 

This would be around 32.000 hitpoints. This is easily tier 5 / 6 material, putting her right in between Omaha and Cleveland. 32.000 hp is even more than Aoba has, by a very small margin.

 

Armor:

 

Belt: 200mm steel + 200mm wood + 50mm turtleback

Turrets: 200mm

Deck: 30mm

 

For a cruiser, this is ridiculous armor. I guess that's why they call it an armored cruiser, right? Fürst Bismarck has a thicker main belt than Moskva. In fact, her belt is only 3mm thinner than that of Ishizuchi, and while the latter is known for being flimsy, you have to keep in mind that she's treated in game as a battleship, and Fürst Bismarck is a cruiser. Plus, taking the 200mm of wood and the 50mm turtleback into account, I would consider Fürst Bismarck more heavily armored than Ishizuchi. The point that I'm trying to make is that this 'cruiser' is armored like a light battleship.

 

Which at only 11k ton is an accomplishment in and of itself.

 

Main armament:

 

4x 24cm

 

Armed with four 240mm rifles in two twin gun turrets, Fürst Bismarck packs a rather serious punch - if you can get the guns to hit what they're aiming at. It's not much use carrying the largest guns on any cruiser in the game if through the combination of low volume of fire and WG patented dispersion, you can't hit anything. They should at least be more accurate than Mikasa's 12" guns though.

 

Bare-naked gun mount. Oo-la-la.

 

Two versions of this gun existed, or rather, two versions of its mount and ammunition hoist existed. The C/92 turrets with a 1.5 RPM rate of fire, and the modernized C/98 versions with a 3 ~ 4 RPM rate of fire. I'm not sure which of these mounts Fürst Bismarck carried, though I'm leaning towards the C/92 version, based on the ship's launch date and assuming that the '92' in C/92 stands for the year of introduction. Ofcourse, I could be wrong. Plus, ROF is a figure WG could mess with for balance as well.

 

For the purpose of this ADLA however, we'll go with 'best case scenario' and fit the C/98 mounts with 3 ~ 4 RPM rate of fire, if only to make tiering her a bit easier. She's just too thickly armored and too healthy to fit at a tier where a 1.5 RPM with these guns is acceptable.

 

These guns fired a 140kg AP shell at 690 mps originally. Versions of this gun still in service during WWII received shells with an extra heavy powder charge and reached 810 mps. However, to make the guns fit in tier I believe the 690 mps figure should be adhered to.

 

Secondary armament:

 

12x 15cm

10x 8.8cm

 

Yes, that's right. Fürst Bismarck's secondary armament is almost as good as St Louis' primary armament, only lacking 2 barrels per side. It's heavier if you count the 88s as well. Let that sink in for a moment.

 

Fürst Bismarck also carried 6x 450mm torpedo tubes but the best I can find is that these were fixed underwater tubes, so they shouldn't be counted.

 

Anti-air:

 

This ship was built and commissioned before the Wright brothers' first flight. As such it has no anti-air, unless Wargaming would deem fit to give it an a-historical upgrade.

 

Speed:

 

18.7 knots

 

Ships this archaic usually can't be expected to go very fast, and Fürst Bismarck is no exception. Her three shafts were only driven by triple expansion steam engines totaling just over thirteen thousand shaft horsepower.

 

Concealment:

 

She was only slightly smaller than St Louis, so should have similar concealment ratings. The American fighting lady boasts 11 km concealment by sea and 6.3 by air.

 

A gorgeous R/C model of Fürst Bismarck. I believe the yellow superstructure color to be a-historical. It does look good on her though.

 

Conclusion:

 

Pros:

- Very heavy secondary battery for a cruiser

- Very powerful main battery for a cruiser

- Ridiculously well armored for a cruiser

- Good hitpoint pool

 

Cons:

- Very few main guns

- Sloooow

- Zero AA

 

Where to tier her?

 

That's a very difficult question. If tiered purely based on hitpoints and treated like a cruiser, tier 5 or even 6 wouldn't be out of place. Her armament definitely doesn't fit those tiers though. Even with relatively good accuracy for guns this size and the 3 ~ 4 RPM of the C/98 turret design her volume of fire would let her down and she would best fit in tier 4, in my opinion. With the C/92 design, tier 3 at most and even that's optimistic.

 

The thing is though, she only has four main guns. Even if they took the very best case scenario ROF of 4 RPM so that the guns can fire every 15 seconds, that still doesn't mean many rounds on target, and at range you're definitely going to find the volume of fire lacking compared to her contemporaries. Every shell going over or under the target counts when you're only firing four shells a salvo. Mikasa captains can attest.

 

In fact, even though she's a 'cruiser', her play style would be closest to Mikasa rather than any other cruiser in the game. So, why not treat her as a battleship then, instead of as a cruiser? Well, the answer to that lies in her tonnage. At 11k ton at best, as a battleship she would only have 24.400 hitpoints, which is way too low even for a tier 2 battleship. Plus, she'd still have basically cruiser guns. Very large guns for a cruiser, but nowhere near battleship guns.

 

If anything, I think she would fit best as a counterpart to Mikasa, at tier 2. Give her cruiser hitpoints at around 30k, but tier her like a battleship in everything else. A battleship with fast firing, 9.4" guns.

 

A US Sailor inspects a hole in the hull of USS Texas, made by a 24cm gun of the same type that Fürst Bismarck carried, as used in a coastal emplacement.

 

Rear Admiral Carleton F. Bryant (left) and Captain Charles A. Baker, CO, USS Texas, posing with the unexploded shell that made the hole in the image above this one.

 

Final thoughts:

 

Writing this ADLA, it became clear to me why proper armored cruisers are so difficult to implement in WoWS. Cruiser hitpoints, battleship armor and intermediate guns simply doesn't work for this game. If armored cruisers like Fürst Bismarck were to be introduced, they would have to be treated as their own class of ships, a compromise between cruisers and battleships. I'm sure many people in the comments will disagree with my assessment and my tiering choice, but that just goes to show how controversial proper armored cruisers are, in the context of this game.

 

Fürst Bismarck under a bridge.

[dseehafer]

It's worth noting that her 200mm steel armored belt was backed by a further 200mm of Wood and a 50mm turtleback.

 

If given long ranged secondarys like Nassau (4km I believe) she could fit nicely at tier 3 I think. Like you said, she'd probably slaughter a St. Louis IRL, and although the game leans towards having more smaller guns rather than fewer bigger guns, I still dont think it would be wise to place her below St. Louis.

[Lert]

It's worth noting that her 200mm steel armored belt was backed by a further 200mm of Wood and a 50mm turtleback.

 

Making her armor even more ridiculous. I'll add that info to my OP.

[Battleship_60]

It's worth noting that her 200mm steel armored belt was backed by a further 200mm of Wood and a 50mm turtleback.

Wow..... I fancy this ship now!

[dseehafer]

 

Making her armor even more ridiculous. I'll add that info to my OP.

 

It gets even better...not that it would do anything in game... but the space between the 400mm belt of wood and steel and the 50mm turtleback was filled with coal. So IRL a shell would have to pass through 200mm of steel, 200mm of wood, several feet of coal and a 50mm turtleback to get into her ooshie gooshies. 

[Lert]

the space between the 400mm belt of wood and steel and 50mm was filled with coal

 

AFAIK that's the reason St Louis is so hard to citadel in game, she has her coal bunkers flanking her citadel as well. So obviously WG has some sort of mechanism in place to simulate this.

[dseehafer]

 

AFAIK that's the reason St Louis is so hard to citadel in game, she has her coal bunkers flanking her citadel as well. So obviously WG has some sort of mechanism in place to simulate this.

 

St Louis also has a turtleback too.

[Baron_Von_Krieg]

That looks very cool ! Hope they put it in game . Good job with the info .  

 

[Hurlbut]

Wow..... I fancy this ship now!

 

Hang on there....Lemme see Krupp armour. It was 20% more effective than harvey nickel steel. But it was superseded superseded by krupp cemented armor. Hm interesting, KCA and Krupp armor are similar in strength. KCA simply crack and spall less than KA. As for wood? Well we think the coal bunkers of St. Louis was a factor in the infamous hard to find citadel.

[Francois424]

I'd want one...  Definitely something down my alley.