Is the Flint OP? Does it deserve to be?

[fish_Jones]

I just watched iChase's new video on the Flint, and it got me wondering: is the Flint truly overpowered, and if so, do the people who earned it and deserve it, deserve to have their OP reward ship, OP to the degree that Flint is or is not? (Even I have trouble following this sentence)

I do not own a Flint, I own an Atlanta. I'm going to try to be as unbiased as I can be, but I'm only human.

 

The Flint is a better Atlanta. I believe this should be generally regarded as true. 

+ - More or less same AA as Atlanta with a few tweaks

+  Better torps. Better range, same damage, with slightly lower speed, but usable and better torps.

+  Smoke. This is what Atlanta players wanted because they wanted to make the Atlanta better. If you haven't, watch iChase's video. It will explain better than I can

-  No radar. Atlanta arguably has the most useful Radar in game due to her rate of fire. 25 seconds may be the shortest radar DURATION, but the Atlanta can fire more rounds while her Radar is active than any other ship with radar. This is one big advantage I believe Atlanta has, and possibly one of the most effective COUNTERS to the Flint's smoke

-  Less broadside firepower than Atlanta by 2 five inch guns. Not too big, but a disadvantage none-the-less.

 

From these points alone, they appear to me on relatively equal footing. Atlanta better up close with 64kt torps, and short range Radar, while Flint is more capable at hiding in its smoke and punished foes at mid-long range without having to use islands for cover.

 

Now to warships.today. If you're here, you probably know that the Flint has the highest WR of any ship for all time periods. At the time of my writing this, the Iwaki Alpha has a higher WR for 'Yesterday' at 69.77%, compared to the Flint's 66.48%.

 

This is more than likely misleading due to the fact that the people who got her ranked out three bloody times. Knowing this, I decided to look at these peoples statistics, especially if they own an Atlanta, to see how their Overall, Recent, Flint, and Atlanta WR correspond. These people are selected randomly from the list of Top Flint Players with more than 10 battles. I don't know all the rules so I will not mention their names in this post. I will also be somewhat vague so that people can't look up these exact numbers to Identify these people. 

Statistics will be rounded to the nearest 5%

Games will be rounded to the nearest 5000, excluding those who cannot be accurately rounded with this number, to better protect their identities.

 

Person 1.

Total Games: 10,000

Overall WR: 70%

Recent WR: 75%

Atlanta Games/WR: 80/65%

Flint Games/WR: 75/80%

 

Person 2:

Total Games: 5,000

Overall WR: 65%

Recent WR: 70%

Atlanta Games/WR: NA/NA

Flint Games/WR: 100/70%

 

I was going to post more, but the more I search, the less likely I find it that the Flint is truly and unequivocally "OP." It appears to me that the people who have her are just that good.

 

I honestly thought I would find more proof she was OP, and part of me might have even hoped she was to justify someone being so much better than me, but alas, it seems not to be.

 

Is she stronger than the Atlanta: I believe so yes, possibly even marginally OP with her smoke duration and cooldown. I believe that when both are played properly head to head the Flint will win by a very small maragin. That being said, I don't know many people claiming that the Atlanta is OP. I either hear that she is under-powered or perfectly fine. By those lines of thinking, the Flint as a stronger Atlanta is either balanced or slightly OP.

 

tl;dr

the Flint is either balanced or slightly OP, and the people who earned her DEFINITELY earned her, and WG should keep her as is or tweak her smoke and or torpedoes only slightly. I still think WG knows what they're doing, and in the long run will make the right choices.

 

Edit: Reading through some posts it seems as if some people didn't even read the tl;dr. Anyway, let me clarify a little bit. I don't think the Flint is massively OP, but the smoke is a bit too strong in my opinion. I also agree with iChase about a giving better Atlanta to only a handful of players when Atlanta players have asked for these changes for so long themselves. Either give the Atlanta the option of long range torpedoes and or reduce the smoke duration of the Flint.

[Personator]

I say it's just a matter of preference if you have both - do you like having smoke, or do you like hunting DDs?  How offensive are you and which seems to be a more preferable tactic for you?

 

Both are good ships. Neither is more powerful than the other.

[Grevester]

Yeah, it's really just because anyone can own an Atlanta, but (generally) very above average players recieved a Flint. Did chase really say it was OP? lol. I haven't really felt it doing that much better.

[FuyuzuKii]

It's less the ship Flint that is overpowered, more so the players that play Flint are overpowered. 

[fish_Jones]

I say it's just a matter of preference if you have both - do you like having smoke, or do you like hunting DDs?  How offensive are you and which seems to be a more preferable tactic for you?

 

Both are good ships. Neither is more powerful than the other.

 

I would agree with you completely were it not for the differences in torpedoes. While their speed is not superb on the Flint, their range gives them much more usage. Most of my Atlanta engagements occur within 10km. Very few of them make it to 4.5 km one way or the other. I do think their playstyles should be different :Atlanta more aggressive and Flint more passive. But the ability of the Flint to channel that IJN cruiser torpedo play is what I think sets her just slightly apart.

[UnseenSpectacle]

The one interesting thing iChase pointed out was just how long Flint's smoke lasts. With a premium consumable equipped, Flint only has ~30 seconds cooldown between when its' smoke dissipates and when it can deploy another. I would love to have that smoke.

Here is iChase's vid for those who have not seen it before reading this thread.

[MrDeaf]

 

I would agree with you completely were it not for the differences in torpedoes. While their speed is not superb on the Flint, their range gives them much more usage. Most of my Atlanta engagements occur within 10km. Very few of them make it to 4.5 km one way or the other. I do think their playstyles should be different :Atlanta more aggressive and Flint more passive. But the ability of the Flint to channel that IJN cruiser torpedo play is what I think sets her just slightly apart.

 

nah,  you got it backwards.

 

Atlanta needs to be played defensively

Flint can be played offensively

 

Smoke is, currently, an offensive weapon and Radar is currently a defensive weapon.

 

You have to park Atlanta behind an island before being able to rack up damage against ships that dare to charge your position.

Flint you can lay down some offensive smoke to provide yourself some extra cover if things get too hot.

[atPrick__]

I prefer Atlanta's extra guns and radar, could care less about AA or the useless thing known as smoke.

 

Yet....

 

I would trade my Atlanta for a Flint in a heartbeat.

[SkywhaleExpress]

I'd say her long range AA is slightly less than Atlanta, at an extension of its close-in AA guns' performance. It also loses on main batteries  (DP guns) , but gains a lot in derpedo range.

[Vekta408]

Everything else about the ship seems fine.

I wouldn't call the smoke OP per say... but it does look a tad too strong. I see where ichase was going with his whole spiel about the smoke. 

 

[fish_Jones]

 

nah,  you got it backwards.

 

Atlanta needs to be played defensively

Flint can be played offensively

What can I say, I'm a backwards kinda guy.

I dunno, I've only played Atlanta, and I play her aggressively against destroyers. Maybe I shouldn't, but that's what I do, and I think radar is more offensive from my point of view. Smoke in my dd's means I've done messed up and need to stop being shot at.

[atPrick__]

I'd say her long range AA is slightly less than Atlanta, at an extension of its close-in AA guns' performance. It also loses on main batteries  (DP guns) , but gains a lot in derpedo range.

 

Like Des Atlanta's guns are as effective as torpedoes, not to the degree as Des but similar.

 

I would rather continue shooting than stop and line up a decent torp run, also exposing your side is terrible in the Atlanta at any torpedo range imo.

 

 

[shootieboats]

It's a good ship, and better than the Atlanta, but you're correct in saying the stats it's putting up is more an effect of most of the players who have access to it right now being good. But it's def a good ship. I hope they don't just turn the Atlanta and Flint into the same ship though. I like that they're similar, but both fulfill different roles.

[UnseenSpectacle]

It's a good ship, and better than the Atlanta, but you're correct in saying the stats it's putting up is more an effect of most of the players who have access to it right now being good. But it's def a good ship. I hope they don't just turn the Atlanta and Flint into the same ship though. I like that they're similar, but both fulfill different roles.

 

I agree with you on the ships stats. It was one of the reasons I made a parody post about the ship being OP. I also do like that the Flint and Atlanta fulfill slightly different roles on their own. Though the thought of a well-coordinated Flint/Atlanta division is terrifying.

[Crucias]

I've seen the Flint ingame twice now, each time it got punked without contributing much.

 

We can't really judge a ship based on that much exposure though.

[Takamachi_Nanoha_sg]

Atlanta is a great ship to me even before radar. So if Flint is a better Atlanta, it is indead a good ship.

But I think deserves to be good, even if OP. Considering how much time and effort people put in for THREE ranked sessions to reach rank 1....

 

And one more thing, those who own a Flint, are at least a better player compare to the general population. So nothing strange if it has better performance stats

[shootieboats]

Here's a negative of the Flint to help counterbalance the awesome. It crushes your pretty colored stats =D

 

Numbers that would put someone around 2200+ in the ATL gets you maybe a 1200 in the Flint, if you're lucky(current best is 1282, compared to the 2300 Atlanta putting up worse numbers). It's an actual struggle to break 1000 with it, even though that's currently what's showing up in the top level for everyone. So that'll weed out the people who only play ships for the stats. Your best game ever in the Flint will still plummet your WTR like a rock. That fancy smoke comes at a price folks. A price well worth paying imho.

[How_About_Me_Spechan]

Here's a negative of the Flint to help counterbalance the awesome. It crushes your pretty colored stats =D

 

Numbers that would put someone around 2200+ in the ATL gets you maybe a 1200 in the Flint, if you're lucky(current best is 1282, compared to the 2300 Atlanta putting up worse numbers). It's an actual struggle to break 1000 with it, even though that's currently what's showing up in the top level for everyone. So that'll weed out the people who only play ships for the stats. Your best game ever in the Flint will still plummet your WTR like a rock. That fancy smoke comes at a price folks. A price well worth paying imho.

 

Ay I had bad experience with this ambitious piece of aluminum foil of getting front citadel for numerous times at the first 3 minutes of the game :<

 

I must say, Flint is quite superior to other ships (With the current owners as well, but not most of the owners are top classed players), but remember it's only a Atlanta, you can just make him cry with focus fire if he is spotted. Also, this monster needs vision to shoot people  :p

 

[Kitsunelegend]

What if they gave the Atlanta a shorter duration smoke? Not as good as the flint, but something it can at least use to escape. Have it on a slightly longer cool down as well.

 

Just a thought either way. 

[UnseenSpectacle]

What if they gave the Atlanta a shorter duration smoke? Not as good as the flint, but something it can at least use to escape. Have it on a slightly longer cool down as well.

 

Just a thought either way. 

 

Then you would have to drop the radar from Atlanta. Atlanta with smoke and radar would be OP as hell. Honestly, Atlanta is best played in a div with destroyer that can provide smoke for it and act as forward sentry. Playing Atlanta solo in random queue usually are my most taxing games of the day.

[iEaTDaGrudge]

I say it's just a matter of preference if you have both - do you like having smoke, or do you like hunting DDs?  How offensive are you and which seems to be a more preferable tactic for you?

 

Both are good ships. Neither is more powerful than the other.

 

well said.

[iEaTDaGrudge]

Pls I dont want a smoke in my atlanta..I  rather keep the radar.

 

Anyways..Flint will be available at premium shop soon i guess hahahahah...

WG come on..we have money to spend!

[PelicanHazard]

Anyways..Flint will be available at premium shop soon i guess hahahahah...

WG come on..we have money to spend!

 

I wouldn't bet on it until it's no longer the Ranked reward ship. WG's gotta keep their carrot for grinding that mode.

[HazardDrake]

I've seen Flints a few times. A couple of them tried the "Firing from smoke" but were killed quickly. Once by me in my Sims and the 9.2k potatoes. Once by a Molitov that looked like they were simply firing at the tracers. Must have been AP because the Flint exited the smoke with significantly less health than they had when they started.

 

I guarantee that iChase got his [edited]handed to him many a time trying that and is only showing the times it worked. Firing from smoke in a DD is risky enough as it is. Flint/Atlanta don't have the acceleration or rudder shift to even think about doing it any more than the MK can.

 

Meanwhile, I had a game last night where I got half of the enemy teams DDs killed by just driving into the cap and popping my radar in my Atlanta.

[IronWolfV]

Having gotten to test the Flint, all I can say is now I want it. Not because it's better, because it's an Atlanta with different options.