Battleship damage

[RH_131]

Where is the massive damage output Bbs are supposed to have. I hit a cruisers broadside and barely do 1k damage, whereas he easily does 10k by setting me on fire. Broadsides of other battleships only give me roughly 6k damage, but if they hit my side they do 20-30k. Dds are even worse, I hit them in the side at point blank range and it barely does 6k, leaving them free to continue on their way and instantly torped my Kongo from full health. Where is the battleship advantage in this game?

[Macabe]

When you fire, what are you aiming for?

[kerensky914]

Where is the massive damage output Bbs are supposed to have. I hit a cruisers broadside and barely do 1k damage, whereas he easily does 10k by setting me on fire. Broadsides of other battleships only give me roughly 6k damage, but if they hit my side they do 20-30k. Dds are even worse, I hit them in the side at point blank range and it barely does 6k, leaving them free to continue on their way and instantly torped my Kongo from full health. Where is the battleship advantage in this game?

 

You are getting lots of overpenetrating hits.  Your AP shells pass thru a DD or CL without detonating.  Use HE on them or hit citadels.  With a cruiser, you'll basically be trying to hit them at the waterline below the turrets or the smokestacks.  On DDs, you're kinda screwed because they have no citadel, so it is either hit them enough for the 500-ish damage from your overpens to sink them or switch to HE.

[IronWolfV]

Where is the massive damage output Bbs are supposed to have. I hit a cruisers broadside and barely do 1k damage, whereas he easily does 10k by setting me on fire. Broadsides of other battleships only give me roughly 6k damage, but if they hit my side they do 20-30k. Dds are even worse, I hit them in the side at point blank range and it barely does 6k, leaving them free to continue on their way and instantly torped my Kongo from full health. Where is the battleship advantage in this game?

 

Hit where it hurts. Just because you hit them somewhere doesn't mean kaboom. Hit them on the bow broadside, what's that supposed to hurt. Hit them centerline high in the hull, not much to damage there.

 

Hit them at the waterline below the smoke stacks....well, most likely you just found a boiler and the citadel. Hit them in the hull under a turret, again citadel city with a good chance of detonation.

 

Can't just blindly fire and expect to rack up big damage. Actually have to aim some.

[SubTender_Taigei]

First up, to do massive damage, you have to do a couple of things:

1. Aim for the waterline

2. Take note of where citadel locations are (funnels, superstructure, turret mounts)

3. Adjust your aim to hit said areas

 

Sometimes your dispersion can be a bit wonky, and can lead to over-penetrations and ricochets despite doing the same shot 

 

[TTK_Aegis]

 

You are getting lots of overpenetrating hits.  Your AP shells pass thru a DD or CL without detonating.  Use HE on them or hit citadels.  With a cruiser, you'll basically be trying to hit them at the waterline below the turrets or the smokestacks.  On DDs, you're kinda screwed because they have no citadel, so it is either hit them enough for the 500-ish damage from your overpens to sink them or switch to HE.

 

Or bow-on. Don't forget that rare, glorious moment when a BB AP shell hits a DD from the front and actually detonates inside. It's magical. 

 

...okay not so magical for the DD but as a BB player I sure enjoy it 

[D_I_P_Scout]

The other responses nailed it!  You will get huge damage against a cruiser if you hit them right.  It is not always about how big the gun is but where you hit them that counts the most.

[vak_]

Where is the massive damage output Bbs are supposed to have. I hit a cruisers broadside and barely do 1k damage, whereas he easily does 10k by setting me on fire. Broadsides of other battleships only give me roughly 6k damage

 

Hmm. Your hit rates (24% Myogi, 22% Kongo) are not too bad, though you should try to get them higher. Your damage, on the other hand, is below average -- so there is definitely a problem somewhere there. Your survival rates are not too bad, so it's not like you die immediately and thus can't deal damage.

 

I'd say you're probably not aiming right, which is actually an easy thing to fix. Try to lead in a way that will make shells hit around the waterline underneath the stacks or the turrets of the enemy ship when at close and medium range, and try to make shells plunge at the middle of the deck when firing at long ranges. Install the training room mod, and just practice at shooting ships at different distances for a while, you'll get the hang of it.

 

PS I wouldn't switch to HE when firing at cruisers as other people here suggest. While it's beneficial to sling HE from battleships in some situations, you first need to master AP in order to understand when the aforementioned situations arise. 

[RH_131]

 

You are getting lots of overpenetrating hits.  Your AP shells pass thru a DD or CL without detonating.  Use HE on them or hit citadels.  With a cruiser, you'll basically be trying to hit them at the waterline below the turrets or the smokestacks.  On DDs, you're kinda screwed because they have no citadel, so it is either hit them enough for the 500-ish damage from your overpens to sink them or switch to HE.

What is an over pen. AP detonates like .5 seconds after it hits something. If over penning is possible than why does my Jgpz still do damage to the side of a Leopard 1. The only reason the shell wouldn't explode is if it was defective.

vakhnenko, on 01 August 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

 

Hmm. Your hit rates (24% Myogi, 22% Kongo) are not too bad, though you should try to get them higher. Your damage, on the other hand, is below average -- so there is definitely a problem somewhere there. Your survival rates are not too bad, so it's not like you die immediately and thus can't deal damage.

 

I'd say you're probably not aiming right, which is actually an easy thing to fix. Try to lead in a way that will make shells hit around the waterline underneath the stacks or the turrets of the enemy ship when at close and medium range, and try to make shells plunge at the middle of the deck when firing at long ranges. Install the training room mod, and just practice at shooting ships at different distances for a while, you'll get the hang of it.

 

PS I wouldn't switch to HE when firing at cruisers as other people here suggest. While it's beneficial to sling HE from battleships in some situations, you first need to master AP in order to understand when the aforementioned situations arise. 

You can't aim the shells, it's a miracle I even hit the ship I'm shooting at let alone aim for something precise like a turret or smokestack. I though all you had to do was hit the waterline to get a citadel

 

[4wilds]

All of the above advice is good, I would also experiment by firing each turret individually versus a salvo fire at least until you can learn how far to lead the target to do the higher damage.

 

I use a different crosshair but I have learned in most of my USN BBs to lead cruisers that are traveling at full speed while broadside by 7 ticks for a good hit. DDs you need to lead a lot further and most USN BBs you only need to lead at about 3 to 4 ticks (depending on tier), while leading IJN BBs at about 5 to 6 ticks, again depending on tier. As shell velocity and arc varies, so too will your lead amount.

[TTK_Aegis]

Regarding waterline shooting... remember that if the target is too far away it becomes /really/ hard to hit with a waterline shot due to the angle the shells are falling at. Contact with the water flattens the angle of the shells a little but not a huge amount. I find at long range, I get better pen and cit results by aiming just a little above the waterline (and I mean a /very little bit/ above). When you're a bit closer or dealing with flatter firing guns, aiming right at the waterline is the best bet. 

 

On aiming for citadel shots... Mostly worry about that when you're close enough that dispersion isn't crazy. On Amagi, if I'm at long range, the dispersion is such that aiming for the middle of the ship results in shells hitting all along the length of the ship. If I were to aim for a turret mount, half my shells would miss entirely, where as a center shot scatters shells at all of the citadel locations at once. In closer you can fine tune it with more reliability but still don't expect two cits in a row even if you fire at the exact same spot unless you're mid to close range. It happens sometimes but only if RNGzus smiles. 

 

If you're having trouble tracking your shots (AP shells are a little hard to see in flight compared to HE), look into a mod that changes their color. I'm fairly sure those are legit. Please correct me if I'm wrong. You can also activate the camera that flies along with the shells.

[4wilds]

Regarding waterline shooting... remember that if the target is too far away it becomes /really/ hard to hit with a waterline shot due to the angle the shells are falling at. Contact with the water flattens the angle of the shells a little but not a huge amount. I find at long range, I get better pen and cit results by aiming just a little above the waterline (and I mean a /very little bit/ above). When you're a bit closer or dealing with flatter firing guns, aiming right at the waterline is the best bet. 

 

On aiming for citadel shots... Mostly worry about that when you're close enough that dispersion isn't crazy. On Amagi, if I'm at long range, the dispersion is such that aiming for the middle of the ship results in shells hitting all along the length of the ship. If I were to aim for a turret mount, half my shells would miss entirely, where as a center shot scatters shells at all of the citadel locations at once. In closer you can fine tune it with more reliability but still don't expect two cits in a row even if you fire at the exact same spot unless you're mid to close range. It happens sometimes but only if RNGzus smiles. 

 

If you're having trouble tracking your shots (AP shells are a little hard to see in flight compared to HE), look into a mod that changes their color. I'm fairly sure those are legit. Please correct me if I'm wrong. You can also activate the camera that flies along with the shells.

To add to this, sometimes aiming for the Superstructure will give you plunging AP fire that can penetrate the deck and do some serious damage as well.

 

The shells are already different colors in the game now, Orange is HE, Blue is AP.

[vak_]

You can't aim the shells

 

I though all you had to do was hit the waterline to get a citadel

 

The probability of a shell hit is highest at your center of aim. When you aim correctly, you are more likely to hit the target. At close ranges that means a high chance of citadeling the enemy ship.

 

CItadel length is generally only around half of ship's length. There is no citadel at the bow or the stern of the ship. Furthermore, even if the shell lands near the waterline it's not guaranteed to penetrate the armor and get into the citadel.

[TTK_Aegis]

What is an over pen. AP detonates like .5 seconds after it hits something. If over penning is possible than why does my Jgpz still do damage to the side of a Leopard 1. The only reason the shell wouldn't explode is if it was defective.

 

You can't aim the shells, it's a miracle I even hit the ship I'm shooting at let alone aim for something precise like a turret or smokestack. I though all you had to do was hit the waterline to get a citadel

 

 

An over-penetration is when not enough armor is encountered by the shell to arm the detonation. DDs, most superstructure and many light cruisers (and many carriers for that matter) lack enough armor to cause the shell to arm. Therefore it just goes through. Keep in mind these are naval shells, not tank shells. There is way way more armor on a ship than on a tank, and the AP shells fired by a BB were tuned to go off after encountering thick armor, under the general assumption they were to be used against similarly armored targets as the BB itself. A naval shell wouldn't go off hitting a tank either. Not enough armor. It /would/ probably turn it into a donut of metal though as it passed through xD 

 

Check the WG wiki for some examples of where the citadel is. Basically it's the vital components. The engine room and powder magazines mostly. In general, they are at / under the waterline below the smoke stacks (roughly middle of the ship) and running the height of the ship from the turret downward. This is why a turret citadel shot is usually easier. It's a bigger target. 

 

As for aiming, as I said in a post above you aren't going to really send the shells where you aim unless you're very close. And even then maybe not. It's less aiming for a sure hit and more aiming to improve your chances of a good hit. 

[TTK_Aegis]

To add to this, sometimes aiming for the Superstructure will give you plunging AP fire that can penetrate the deck and do some serious damage as well.

 

The shells are already different colors in the game now, Orange is HE, Blue is AP.

 

Aye, but personally I find the blue to be a little hard to see. It might be because my particular monitor is fairly heavy on the blue in general... makes them blend in.

[sabertooth1]

I'm fairly new to this game but I believe the rational behind the over penetration of the AP shells is that the shell doesn't hit enough resistance to trigger the fuse. That .5 sec delay you spoke of. The AP shell then is just a solid slug ripping a hole through the ship until it runs out of inertia and stops. Looks like TTK_Aegis beat me to it.

 

 

 

[4wilds]

 

Aye, but personally I find the blue to be a little hard to see. It might be because my particular monitor is fairly heavy on the blue in general... makes them blend in.

 

Ah, so in your case, then I can see why the tracer mod would be helpful.

[IceSerpen7]

What is an over pen. AP detonates like .5 seconds after it hits something. If over penning is possible than why does my Jgpz still do damage to the side of a Leopard 1. The only reason the shell wouldn't explode is if it was defective.

 

Shell velocity is roughly 700-800 m/s, in 0.5 seconds that round would travel 350-400m. This why pulling random numbers out of thin air makes one look silly (hint: fuse delay is nowhere near 0.5s).

 

You can't aim the shells, it's a miracle I even hit the ship I'm shooting at let alone aim for something precise like a turret or smokestack. I though all you had to do was hit the waterline to get a citadel

 

 

You can aim for the general area you want your shells to hit.

 

 

[vak_]

I'm fairly new to this game but I believe the rational behind the over penetration of the AP shells is that the shell doesn't hit enough resistance to trigger the fuse. That .5 sec delay you spoke of.

 

Less: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.php

 

The Mark 21 Base Detonating Fuze (BDF) had a delay of 0.033 seconds. Fuze activation required a resistance equal to 1.5 inches (3.8 cm) of armor at 0 degrees obliquity or 0.375 inches (1 cm) at 65 degrees obliquity.

[VTAdmiral]

In Warships, shells do hit enough resistance to arm the fuse regardless of what they hit, because ships are huge and have lots of metal and walls that shells run into.

 

However.

 

Shells are moving so fast and encountering so little that it has exited the other side of the ship by the time it detonates. That is an over-penetration in WoWS.

[Battleship_Vanguard]

Unfortunately, unless you are landing an inordinate (re: unusual) number of shell hits due to excellent grouping... or you manage a citadel or multi-citadel salvo, BB damage really isn't that great for obvious balance reasons. In fact, cruisers and destroyers that make it to endgame routinely out-damage battleships by a fairly healthy margin simply due to the nature of RNG and the fact that they are able to put far more shells on target/use HE more liberally. 

 

Our price for being able to hang back, throw strong alpha, and having excellent armor is being the biggest carrier target, possessing high visibility, and, obviously, crappy overall DPS. Yes, in real life putting a couple of AP shells into a destroyer or light cruiser would absolutely be the end of their day, if not existence... but this isn't real life, or anything even close to it (unfortunately). 

[TTK_Aegis]

Unfortunately, unless you are landing an inordinate (re: unusual) number of shell hits due to excellent grouping... or you manage a citadel or multi-citadel salvo, BB damage really isn't that great for obvious balance reasons. In fact, cruisers and destroyers that make it to endgame routinely out-damage battleships by a fairly healthy margin simply due to the nature of RNG and the fact that they are able to put far more shells on target/use HE more liberally. 

 

Our price for being able to hang back, throw strong alpha, and having excellent armor is being the biggest carrier target, possessing high visibility, and, obviously, crappy overall DPS. Yes, in real life putting a couple of AP shells into a destroyer or light cruiser would absolutely be the end of their day, if not existence... but this isn't real life, or anything even close to it (unfortunately). 

 

It would also be very unlikely for a BB to hit a DD at any kind of long range in real life. Real life ship to ship accuracy was /way/ less than it is in game. You're right though, no way an enormous hole clean through a DD wouldn't at least come close to crippling it. It's kind of a shame overpen that exits below the water line can't cause flooding... it would be logical at least.

[VTAdmiral]

 It's kind of a shame overpen that exits below the water line can't cause flooding... it would be logical at least.

 

From what I've been told, this did happen in Alpha. It was removed because it was far too powerful and nobody enjoyed it as a mechanic.

[Battleship_Vanguard]

 

It would also be very unlikely for a BB to hit a DD at any kind of long range in real life. Real life ship to ship accuracy was /way/ less than it is in game. You're right though, no way an enormous hole clean through a DD wouldn't at least come close to crippling it. It's kind of a shame overpen that exits below the water line can't cause flooding... it would be logical at least.

 

The problem is that the whole design is flawed from the ground up. We're not playing as units in a fleet in WoWs, but solo warriors who occasionally work in loose concert, but whose individual performance go much further to determining victory or defeat than our cohesion as a group. IRL, battleships could be ridiculously strong and destroyers - in most situations - ludicrously weak because each had defined roles to fill (which almost never involved a DD attacking a capital ship in broad daylight, and when it happened, things almost always went horribly wrong). 

 

In alpha, WoWs was apparently much closer to a sim than an arcade shooter - the classes had jobs, and weren't balanced on a 1-for-1 basis because the entire idea was for different units to augment one another in order to achieve victory. But, according to people I've spoken with, while western alpha testers were exceedingly receptive to this design, the Russians hated it... and we all know where WG's bread and butter is. So, in the late stages of testing prior to the beta weekend, the entire system was flipped on its head in favor of the current 'shoot 'em up' meta.

[paradat]

Where is the massive damage output Bbs are supposed to have. I hit a cruisers broadside and barely do 1k damage, whereas he easily does 10k by setting me on fire. Broadsides of other battleships only give me roughly 6k damage, but if they hit my side they do 20-30k. Dds are even worse, I hit them in the side at point blank range and it barely does 6k, leaving them free to continue on their way and instantly torped my Kongo from full health. Where is the battleship advantage in this game?

 

Drop your aim closer to the water.