Mogami deserves a buff

[Aduial]

The Mogami is one of the ships that have been hit hard with the nerf bat in recent patches. Some of the nerfs were needed, but some of them went over the top and nerfed Mogami to the point where it's weak.

First of all, the 155mm guns. These guns were hit hard when the captain skills BFT, AFT, and EM were changed so that they no longer affect guns of calibers higher than 139. The BFT and AFT nerfs were fine, but the EM nerf was totally uncalled for, and it made Mogami's 155 mm turrets slower than your average battleship guns. 

Ship	Turret traverse speed (seconds/180 degrees)
Mogami (155 mm)	51.4
Mikhail Kutuzov (152 mm)	25
Tirpitz (380 mm)	26
Amagi (410 mm)	41.8
North Carolina (406 mm)	45

As you can see, the Mogami has horrendously slow turrets with the 155 mm guns. They're basically half the speed of equal caliber guns on other ships, and they're much slower than turrets of equal tier battleships, which is ridiculous considering the fact that they are low caliber guns. 

Suggested solution: Buff the Mogami's turret speed to 35 seconds. 

 

Now for the 203 mm guns: The 203 mm guns are OK, except for the fact that their range is just slightly too short. The range is actually lower than the tier 7 Myoko, and the guns also have worse DPM than the Myoko's (even though they turn faster). 

Ship:	Main battery range (km)
Mogami (203 mm)	15.7
Atago	15.8
New Orleans	16.2
Chapayev	17.3
Mikhail Kutuzov	19.1

Suggested Change: Buff the Mogami's range on the 203 mm guns to 16 km. This would also make the distinction between the 155mm and 203 mm guns even more clearer. 

[SergeantHop]

Second. 

[Jakajan]

Thirded, the boat is large, sad, and difficult to handle compared to the Atago.

 

In my own opinion her 155mm configuration needs to have the gun rotation reduced to 36 seconds.

 

Increase the range of the 203's to 16.5km

 

Reduce the rudder shift by a hair, or give her the repair ability a tier early. Atago's torpedos and stealth would still make her a better cruiser.

[SergeantHop]

Thirded, the boat is large, sad, and difficult to handle compared to the Atago.

 

In my own opinion her 155mm configuration needs to have the gun rotation reduced to 36 seconds.

 

Increase the range of the 203's to 16.5km

 

Reduce the rudder shift by a hair, or give her the repair ability a tier early. Atago's torpedos and stealth would still make her a better cruiser.

 

Atago only has about 100m less detection than Mogami. Both can stealth torp, but the Atago has a very small stealth fire window. Not that it really matters. Mogami would be able to stealth fire with 16.5km of range, which I don't think would be appropriate for tier 8s to do. Same with the ability to heal, otherwise the Ibuki is really not at all an upgrade. The distinction between the two is already tenuous at best. 

 

But, the point of the 155s needing improvement is still very valid. It's almost playable with EM and the turret traverse mod, but even still it's a rough fight, as the ship can outturn the guns quite easily.

[iEaTDaGrudge]

mogami is the first tier 8 that i unlock bfor and i love it..Great for DD hunting BUT they nerf it so bad that i ended up solding it man..we have too much 203mm guns already..can we keep the 155mm and give her a decent turret rotation but pls 51.4 really?

[mohawkdriver]

OP is so right.  I don't think the Mogami was OP before it was nerfed mercilessly to the underperforming Tier VI ship it is today.  The whiners, instead of working up to the Mogami the right way, cried and bellyached about it so much that WG bent under the pressure and drove that proud ship into the mothball fleet.  

 

Bring back the Mogami to its pre-nerf state!

[SergeantHop]

OP is so right.  I don't think the Mogami was OP before it was nerfed mercilessly to the underperforming Tier VI ship it is today.  The whiners, instead of working up to the Mogami the right way, cried and bellyached about it so much that WG bent under the pressure and drove that proud ship into the mothball fleet.  

 

Bring back the Mogami to its pre-nerf state!

 

No, it was pretty ridiculous before. 15 guns every 6.5 seconds was insane. I was doing 9k HE damage on a battleship per salvo, easy, any angle, at any range. So, the nerf bat wasn't unwarranted, but they gave her a bit too much of a beating by keeping the turret traverse so absurdly high. As I've said above, she's playable, but only tenuously, and you really need to plan your movements.

[Aduial]

OP is so right.  I don't think the Mogami was OP before it was nerfed mercilessly to the underperforming Tier VI ship it is today.  The whiners, instead of working up to the Mogami the right way, cried and bellyached about it so much that WG bent under the pressure and drove that proud ship into the mothball fleet.  

 

Bring back the Mogami to its pre-nerf state!

 

Lol, if it was buffed to pre-nerf state it should be a tier 10. 

[_Rumple_]

Pre-nerf was pretty OP, so I don't see WG buffing it back to that, and rightly so. However, I used to enjoy those 155mm guns; they were a nice change from the standard 203mm guns. I too would like to see a traverse buff and then I would buy her back, but don't hold your breath. It's been asked before and vehemently rejected by WG.

[byronicasian]

OP is so right.  I don't think the Mogami was OP before it was nerfed mercilessly to the underperforming Tier VI ship it is today.  The whiners, instead of working up to the Mogami the right way, cried and bellyached about it so much that WG bent under the pressure and drove that proud ship into the mothball fleet.  

 

Bring back the Mogami to its pre-nerf state!

 

Totes Tier 6 amrite? 2nd best performing non-prem cruiser in terms of damage (only 3k behind). Mind you, this is the most recent 2 week stats.

 

Only 10k damage more than its Tier 6 predecessor.

The only "buff" the Mogami really needs is a QoL one. Reduce the RoF of the 155mm to historical bottleneck of 5 RPM, but as a trade-off bring the traverse back to its historical 180/30 sec times (after captain skills). Now you'll have a CL option that can actually track DDs.

 

 

Now for the 203 mm guns: The 203 mm guns are OK, except for the fact that their range is just slightly too short. The range is actually lower than the tier 7 Myoko,

 

 

This is technically not true anymore. Myoko's range was nerfed a few patches ago just to create a range progression w. the Mogami. Myoko's max range is now only 15.5km while Mogami gets approx. 15.7.

[mohawkdriver]

 

Lol, if it was buffed to pre-nerf state it should be a tier 10. 

 

I don't have a problem with that!

[TenguBlade]

Buffing the 203s' range is a slippery slope because Ibuki only has 16.2km range.  She gets access to GFCS2 which can boost it, yes, but that's one less difference between the two.  Any RoF or traverse buffs of the 203s would also pretty much have to carry over to the Ibuki, which she doesn't really need.

 

In terms of the 155s, I think a buff to 35-second traverse is way too much.  45 seconds like Myoko is the most I can get behind, because right now 155 Mogami is still stupidly broken if played right.  I've gotten an average damage of almost 60k once I was out of the stock grind, and I use 155s with no upgrades on the ship at all.  Captain only got DE after this redistribution sale, had the useless Survivability Expert perk for some reason before that.

[Aduial]

 

Totes Tier 6 amrite? 2nd best performing non-prem cruiser in terms of damage (only 3k behind). Mind you, this is the most recent 2 week stats.

 

Only 10k damage more than its Tier 6 predecessor.

The only "buff" the Mogami really needs is a QoL one. Reduce the RoF of the 155mm to historical bottleneck of 5 RPM, but as a trade-off bring the traverse back to its historical 180/30 sec times (after captain skills). Now you'll have a CL option that can actually track DDs.

 

 

 

This is technically not true anymore. Myoko's range was nerfed a few patches ago just to create a range progression w. the Mogami. Myoko's max range is now only 15.5km while Mogami gets approx. 15.7.

 

You're comparing only to the Aoba. Look at the Cleveland and the Nurnberg, which are performing much better. And Mogami is 3rd best performing non prem, not second. Also, with a 5RPM she would have about the same DPM as the Cleveland, and still with worse turret traverse. So that's not a good solution. 

Also you're right about the range. I was thinking back to pre-nerf stats when Myoko had 15.9 km range. 

[byronicasian]

 

You're comparing only to the Aoba. Look at the Cleveland and the Nurnberg, which are performing much better. And Mogami is 3rd best performing non prem, not second. Also, with a 5RPM she would have about the same DPM as the Cleveland, and still with worse turret traverse. So that's not a good solution. 

Also you're right about the range. I was thinking back to pre-nerf stats when Myoko had 15.9 km range. 

 

Are you not reading the screenshot? Aoba is performing better than both Cleveland and Nurnberg (26k vs 25k).

 

And 36,000 is not greater than 35,000. Right now there are 4 non-prem cruisers. Not sure how you're misreading the 39k for Chapayev, 36k for Mogami, 35k for Adm HIpper, 27k N.O. 39 > 36 > 35> 27

[Aduial]

 

Are you not reading the screenshot? Aoba is performing better than both Cleveland and Nurnberg (26k vs 25k).

 

And 36,000 is not greater than 35,000. Right now there are 4 non-prem cruisers. Not sure how you're misreading the 39k for Chapayev, 36k for Mogami, 35k for Adm HIpper, 27k N.O. 39 > 36 > 35> 27

Lol, i just realized that i was looking at the wrong column. Derp....

[nToxik]

The turret traverse using the 155's needs to be the same as the 203's. I think this is really the only change it needs.

[Aduial]

The turret traverse using the 155's needs to be the same as the 203's. I think this is really the only change it needs.

 

Yes, i'd be happy with that. Except WG just says, who cares about the Mogami? She can have turrets that turn slower than battleship turrets, yet it's perfectly balanced and doesn't need work. 

[Royeaux]

I've gotten used to the new 155 Mogami.  She does alright, she straight up laughs at any Atlantas attacking her and I have to take a few range shots to get the proper range of DDs beyond 10km away, but she get them smothered in 6" shells eventually.  Rather then the turret traverse, I think the chief problem of the 155 Mogami is just how little damage shes does against Battleships.  I mean, you can pump 150 HE shells into a Tirpitz, and it's still going to be afloat.  Given the 155 guns have only medium range, I think the shells should either cause a little more HE damage, or start more fires, because I can't maneuver much with these slow turrets, I end up in mortal danger too often when I'm trying to burn down a Battleship.  Most often I just have to disengage and sail away until that Battleship targets something else.  The 155 Mogami is just a little too ineffective against Battleships in my opinion.

[crzyhawk]

my damage went up when I went back to 155's.  While I dislike the turret rotation, I can't in good conscience say that it needs a buff to be competitive.  The ship is already very competitive and even better with 155s.

[Aduial]

I've gotten used to the new 155 Mogami.  She does alright, she straight up laughs at any Atlantas attacking her and I have to take a few range shots to get the proper range of DDs beyond 10km away, but she get them smothered in 6" shells eventually.  Rather then the turret traverse, I think the chief problem of the 155 Mogami is just how little damage shes does against Battleships.  I mean, you can pump 150 HE shells into a Tirpitz, and it's still going to be afloat.  Given the 155 guns have only medium range, I think the shells should either cause a little more HE damage, or start more fires, because I can't maneuver much with these slow turrets, I end up in mortal danger too often when I'm trying to burn down a Battleship.  Most often I just have to disengage and sail away until that Battleship targets something else.  The 155 Mogami is just a little too ineffective against Battleships in my opinion.

"more HE damage, or start more fires" Definitely not. As much as i like the ship, i don't want it to be OP. Recently i set 13 fires in 1 game, so it doesn't need more fires, and the HE damage is already higher than equal caliber guns of other nations. All it needs is a traverse buff. 

[Aduial]

my damage went up when I went back to 155's.  While I dislike the turret rotation, I can't in good conscience say that it needs a buff to be competitive.  The ship is already very competitive and even better with 155s.

 

While the Mogami isn't a bad ship like the NO, it's still somewhat less than competitive. The 203 mm guns? Why would you play them if you have an Atago?

155mms? Why play them when you can play the MK for a better ship with a similar playstyle? 

Even though Mogami doesn't need a large buff, i think a turret traverse buff would make the ship more balanced. Right now, if you take a turn to avoid shells, you have to spend 10-15 seconds to just get your guns on target. 

[Royeaux]

"more HE damage, or start more fires" Definitely not. As much as i like the ship, i don't want it to be OP. Recently i set 13 fires in 1 game, so it doesn't need more fires, and the HE damage is already higher than equal caliber guns of other nations. All it needs is a traverse buff. 

 

Sure, with a traverse buff, you can dodge a Battleship's guns while constantly putting up a stream of HE on her.  But without the traverse buffs, the Mogami needs to hold steady to fire off the salvo, and it just doesn't cause enough damage to justify the risk of holding steady against a Battleship.  I'm just concerned about buffing the traverse speed because she preforms well enough against DDs and CAs, she'll do even better against them with faster turrets (and we'll hear the cries of OP Mogami, nerf now!), where as having more flammable shells wont affect the Mogami vs DD or CA balance that much.

[crzyhawk]

Mogami does not need a buff period. Why would I play Mogami over Atago? I average 17k more damage/game with Mogami. Why would I play it over MK? 8k more damage/game.

[byronicasian]

Again, I see no numbers to justify a straight up buff. As I mentioned before, the only thing she needs is a "QoL" adjustment of +traverse/-RoF (IMO will be a wash, but faster traverse feels more comfortable that the artificially raised RoF). For all intents and purposes, stats how Mogami is doing more than fine in terms of silver ships.

[Aduial]

Again, I see no numbers to justify a straight up buff. As I mentioned before, the only thing she needs is a "QoL" adjustment of +traverse/-RoF (IMO will be a wash, but faster traverse feels more comfortable that the artificially raised RoF). For all intents and purposes, stats how Mogami is doing more than fine in terms of silver ships.

 

I can't really provide any numbers for you, because the stats are a mix of 203 mm guns and 155 mm guns. But let me tell you this. With 5 RPM, the Mogami would have about the same DPM as the Cleveland, which is not acceptable. Second, it's ridiculous that 155 mm turrets should turn slower than battleship turrets. So the solution here would be to buff the turret traverse.