Range of Secondaries

[Mavrick0021]

I was looking through the stats on the BB lines and I found a big difference on the range of secondaries.

T6 has a base range of 4km 

T7 and T8 have a base range of 5km 

T9 and T10 have a base range of 7km

Now that is the case for both USN and IJN BBs but when looking at the German BB line things change greatly. Now first I do not know how accurate  http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ships_of_Germany  is on the new German line but it looks to be at least close.

German BBs don't follow the above mentioned trend at all, for the most part all of them have extended range on secondaries by at least 0.5km. Bayern's secondaries is a whole 1km farther than other ships of the same tier. The biggest difference is with the Bismarck that gets a secondaries range of 7km like the T9s and T10s instead of 5km like the other T8 BBs. Now I know the German BB line is probably going to be for the brawlers which I am totally excited for! But they are leaving the Tirpitz behind greatly in the secondaries category. The Tirpitz range on secondaries is a sad 4.5km! that is lower than ships of the same tier and 2.5km shorter than the Bismarck that is of the same tier and the sister ship! So is wargaming going to change the Tirpitz to match the Bismarck or just leave it?

 

[Royeaux]

I was looking through the stats on the BB lines and I found a big difference on the range of secondaries.

T6 has a base range of 4km 

T7 and T8 have a base range of 5km 

T9 and T10 have a base range of 7km

Now that is the case for both USN and IJN BBs but when looking at the German BB line things change greatly. Now first I do not know how accurate  http://wiki.wargaming.net   is on the new German line but it looks to be at least close.

German BBs don't follow the above mentioned trend at all, for the most part all of them have extended range on secondaries by at least 0.5km. Bayern's secondaries is a whole 1km farther than other ships of the same tier. The biggest difference is with the Bismarck that gets a secondaries range of 7km like the T9s and T10s instead of 5km like the other T8 BBs. Now I know the German BB line is probably going to be for the brawlers which I am totally excited for! But they are leaving the Tirpitz behind greatly in the secondaries category. The Tirpitz range on secondaries is a sad 4.5km! that is lower than ships of the same tier and 2.5km shorter than the Bismarck that is of the same tier and the sister ship! So is wargaming going to change the Tirpitz to match the Bismarck or just leave it?

 

 

Tirpitz has torpedoes.  Any ship that brawls with it is going to be in mortal peril.  Her secondary range if fine as it is, even my Nagato with max secondaries would be a disadvantage brawling with the Tirpitz as it is.

[SergeantHop]

 

Tirpitz has torpedoes.  Any ship that brawls with it is going to be in mortal peril.  Her secondary range if fine as it is, even my Nagato with max secondaries would be a disadvantage brawling with the Tirpitz as it is.

 

Scharnhorst and Gneisenau will also have torpedoes. I'd like more secondary range for DD point defense, but I agree, it's fine as it is.

[Aduial]

So just wondering, do any of the tech-tree german BBs have torps? 

[SergeantHop]

So just wondering, do any of the tech-tree german BBs have torps? 

 

Gneisenau has torps. They're the same as Scharnhorst's. One triple launcher per side, probably with similar arcs to the Tirpitz. Other than that, no other German BB had deck mounted torpedo launchers.

[HMCS_Devilfish]

The secondarys on my Kustuzof are usless , A very drunken sailor shooting everyware.. 1 it 10 hit 1 in 10 does minimum damage

[X15]

Not to mention the Tirpitz is a premium, not meant to be on par with same tier ships. So buffing it would make it fall under the OP category. Its a spectacular ship as is.

[Skye_Hino]

Not to mention the Tirpitz is a premium, not meant to be on par with same tier ships. So buffing it would make it fall under the OP category. Its a spectacular ship as is.

 

When have they ever said that premiums were "not meant to be on par with same tier (tech tree) ships"? I know that's how it usually works in WoT, but to the best of my knowledge, WG has said they want premium ships to be "balanced" and "not pay-to-win". To me, this says that they want them to be "on par" with their tech tree counterparts. That way they remain "balanced" while still being competitive, but not OP.

[Magic_Fighting_Tuna]

The Tirpitz could certainly use the extra.5km range on the secondaries, unless your lucky or your target is <3km away or completely oblivious their is a good chance most of the torpedoes will miss so their not really that all powerful ship destroyer. Not to mention they only have a 6km range so if the target stays out of that range your torpedoes are useless(most players are aware of the torpedoes so they will try to get into a position where you cant use them). The tubes are also incapacitated or wrecked half the time with all the He being thrown around so I wouldn't call them proper compensation. And much to horrors I have I experienced, the main batteries have a chance to go astray and miss the broadside of a cruiser at any range over 7km if you get a bad roll. So really all the Tirpitz has is her under ranged secondaries, amazing survivability and prayers to RNG.

[MDTJ]

Hmm dug around really quick for statistical sake and here's what I found for the various ranges of secondaries by tier.

3 = 3-3-4

4 = 3.5-3.5-4.5

5 = 4-4-4.5

6 = 4-4-5-5-5

7 = 6-5-5

8 = 5-5-7/4.5

9 = 6-7-7

10 = 6-7-7

 

I did not realize the CO's secondaries had such good range... hmmm

[DanielLeary]

Hmm dug around really quick for statistical sake and here's what I found for the various ranges of secondaries by tier.

3 = 3-3-4

4 = 3.5-3.5-4.5

5 = 4-4-4.5

6 = 4-4-5-5-5

7 = 6-5-5

8 = 5-5-7/4.5

9 = 6-7-7

10 = 6-7-7

 

I did not realize the CO's secondaries had such good range... hmmm

 

For Tier 6, I think you have a wrong value somewhere.

New Mexico:  4 Km

Arizona:  4 Km

Fuso:  4 Km

Bayern:  5 Km

Warspite:  5 Km

 

So, your Tier 6 should be:  4-4-4-5-5.

[MDTJ]

Wasn't including the AZ as its the same as the NM ;)

[Spongeman131]

The secondary range is pitiful for almost all the BBs except maybe the Yamato. That being said Tirpitz really does need a slight nudge to put it in the same range as the rest of the battleships she will be fighting in tiers 6-8 (since I don't expect Tier 9 stats on a Tier 8 ship).

[DanielLeary]

Wasn't including the AZ as its the same as the NM ;)

 

Then what is the third BB with 5 Km base secondary range?

Nvm, it is the Dunkerque

[ThatLungfish]

Why are you guys bothering about range or power.

. On bbs, the range is fine and the power is really good. What make they SUCK is the auto aiming system that can't hit any crap dd player at close range. It is like 100 shells fired, 9 hits, just look at the statistics at the end of the battle and you will notice how many hits you are missing even with 15 points captain skills. 

[7iltjbhc7]

Really do hope they "buff" the range for the Tirpitz secondaries to at least 5km (would love it was 7 or 6 but any buff to the range I'll take).

[IceSerpen7]

Why are you guys bothering about range or power.

. On bbs, the range is fine and the power is really good. What make they SUCK is the auto aiming system that can't hit any crap dd player at close range. It is like 100 shells fired, 9 hits, just look at the statistics at the end of the battle and you will notice how many hits you are missing even with 15 points captain skills. 

 

Because we know how to make a secondaries build? Just a wild guess...

[ThatLungfish]

 

Because we know how to make a secondaries build? Just a wild guess...

 

My guess Is that you have no idea on how inaccurate they are, specially against little targets like DDs. But go ahead, try it by yourself and then come with a video showing us the hit rate against a DD 2km away from you. 

[Royeaux]

 

My guess Is that you have no idea on how inaccurate they are, specially against little targets like DDs. But go ahead, try it by yourself and then come with a video showing us the hit rate against a DD 2km away from you. 

 

Lol, if you have an Amagi with manual firing control, and you have it selected on that DD as it comes into range, it wont last long enough to get to 2km before awarding you a close quarters medal.  That's what a secondary build can do from the Nagato onward.

[reaper_swpz]

 

Lol, if you have an Amagi with manual firing control, and you have it selected on that DD as it comes into range, it wont last long enough to get to 2km before awarding you a close quarters medal.  That's what a secondary build can do from the Nagato onward.

 

Slight problem with this. Amagi doesn't want to be within 7km of enemy ships due to the fact that she is a battlecruiser and will die, quickly, once focused upon. Nagato is at least an actual battleship that can take some hits since she is a tier lower.

 

Secondary range is too short to be frank, tier 8+ should be starting at 7km base. Even full secondary spec'd you don't hit much.

 

Some examples to follow, the games are with Izumo and a 17 point captain.

 

Most shots were fired at Gearing at a range of 8-10km, notice the number of hits vs the shells fired. Gearing was not evading, he did not need to.

 

 

 

Here is a better game of secondaries firing on Atlanta, Myoko and Tirpitz at a range of 8-10km again, much better performance.

 

 

 

Secondaries are no where near the "bubble of instant DD death" that DD players attempt to say they are. On the other hand, if a DD is able to sneak up to even a 45 degree angle of a BB within 8km, it's certain death for the BB.

[ThatLungfish]

 

Slight problem with this. Amagi doesn't want to be within 7km of enemy ships due to the fact that she is a battlecruiser and will die, quickly, once focused upon. Nagato is at least an actual battleship that can take some hits since she is a tier lower.

 

Secondary range is too short to be frank, tier 8+ should be starting at 7km base. Even full secondary spec'd you don't hit much.

 

Some examples to follow, the games are with Izumo and a 17 point captain.

 

Most shots were fired at Gearing at a range of 8-10km, notice the number of hits vs the shells fired. Gearing was not evading, he did not need to.

 

 

 

Here is a better game of secondaries firing on Atlanta, Myoko and Tirpitz at a range of 8-10km again, much better performance.

 

 

 

Secondaries are no where near the "bubble of instant DD death" that DD players attempt to say they are. On the other hand, if a DD is able to sneak up to even a 45 degree angle of a BB within 8km, it's certain death for the BB.

 

That's exactly my point but some people seem to be in denial...

Any DD getting 5 km close to an tier 10 bbs should be smoked INSTANTLY. It blows my mind that some guys can't see/accept that secondary armament should be feared, not laugh by. You fired 571 shells on cruisers to have only 118 hits, that's pretty pathetic.  Why the heck DDs can have control over their seconds and bbs can't anymore ?

 

Here is my Yamato, 18 skill captain, I have made the math for those who have no clue on what they are talking about..

 

 

Secondaries are meant to protect you from DDs but the way WG made these they can't really get DDs scared like they should due to the crap aiming system that is ridiculously inaccurate and obviously ineffective against DDs. 

[Royeaux]

 

Slight problem with this. Amagi doesn't want to be within 7km of enemy ships due to the fact that she is a battlecruiser and will die, quickly, once focused upon. Nagato is at least an actual battleship that can take some hits since she is a tier lower.

 

Secondary range is too short to be frank, tier 8+ should be starting at 7km base. Even full secondary spec'd you don't hit much.

 

Some examples to follow, the games are with Izumo and a 17 point captain.

 

Most shots were fired at Gearing at a range of 8-10km, notice the number of hits vs the shells fired. Gearing was not evading, he did not need to.

 

 

 

Here is a better game of secondaries firing on Atlanta, Myoko and Tirpitz at a range of 8-10km again, much better performance.

 

 

 

Secondaries are no where near the "bubble of instant DD death" that DD players attempt to say they are. On the other hand, if a DD is able to sneak up to even a 45 degree angle of a BB within 8km, it's certain death for the BB.

 

I guess you don't sail an Amagi like I do.  The whole point of the Battlecruiser is to snuggle up to another ship that's too weak to fight you overwhelm it.  Normal Battleships aren't fast enough to try this.  What's a Fukubi going to do to you after it missed it's salvo of torpedoes?  It can focus on you all it likes, it's a dead man walking at this point.  I've even seen this happen with Shimakaze that strayed into my secondary range with empty torpedo tubes, often they can't get away in time.

 

While I agree that compared to games like Battlestations: Pacific, the secondaries in this game are a complete joke (half the fun in sailing the Fuso was the sheer volume of guns at your disposal).  Nevertheless, while we sail in this fantasy land where a Destroyer is on par with a Battleship, then allowances have to be made to give DDs a chance at doing comparable damage to a Battleship.

[ThatLungfish]

 

I guess you don't sail an Amagi like I do.  The whole point of the Battlecruiser is to snuggle up to another ship that's too weak to fight you overwhelm it.  Normal Battleships aren't fast enough to try this.  What's a Fukubi going to do to you after it missed it's salvo of torpedoes?  It can focus on you all it likes, it's a dead man walking at this point.  I've even seen this happen with Shimakaze that strayed into my secondary range with empty torpedo tubes, often they can't get away in time.

 

While I agree that compared to games like Battlestations: Pacific, the secondaries in this game are a complete joke (half the fun in sailing the Fuso was the sheer volume of guns at your disposal).  Nevertheless, while we sail in this fantasy land where a Destroyer is on par with a Battleship, then allowances have to be made to give DDs a chance at doing comparable damage to a Battleship.

 

But It is just too easy for DDs to get in close range with a BBS, launch torps and survive. They should not be allowed to stay in the range of any battleship with highly armored  secondaries and survive. Surprise and fast attacks should be the only way for DDs to anchieve this. With my Sims and 9km range torpedoes which speed tops at 49 knots I can easly get in close and personal to any bbs, sunk it and leave with more than half HP. Secondaries are really pathetic the way they are right now.

 

Want another example ? Mikasa with one St louis attached to each side, 15 skill captain, hitting only 9 shells out of 109.

The DD was broadsiding at 0.7km from me and it was needed the help of a fellow cruiser and my mains to kill it.

How easy it is for DDs ? You tell me!

 

[Royeaux]

 

But It is just too easy for DDs to get in close range with a BBS, launch torps and survive. They should not be allowed to stay in the range of any battleship with highly armored  secondaries and survive. Surprise and fast attacks should be the only way for DDs to anchieve this. With my Sims and 9km range torpedoes which speed tops at 49 knots I can easly get in close and personal to any bbs, sunk it and leave with more than half HP. Secondaries are really pathetic the way they are right now.

 

Want another example ? Mikasa with one St louis attached to each side, 15 skill captain, hitting only 9 shells out of 109.

The DD was broadsiding at 0.7km from me and it was needed the help of a fellow cruiser and my mains to kill it.

How easy it is for DDs ? You tell me!

 

If the Mikasa was a good ship, I'm sure she would have been sold, instead of given away.

 

Well, if you want to see secondary batteries given their due, there's always Battlestations: Pacific.  They generally have triple the range then in WoWs and manual targeting, that is if your willing to deal with aging graphics and only a single player campaign/skirmish.

[ThatLungfish]

If the Mikasa was a good ship, I'm sure she would have been sold, instead of given away.

 

Well, if you want to see secondary batteries given their due, there's always Battlestations: Pacific.  They generally have triple the range then in WoWs and manual targeting, that is if your willing to deal with aging graphics and only a single player campaign/skirmish.

 

Mikasa has been and is still being sold on EU, it is know for its secondaries.

If you watch the Yamato and Mikasa videos you will notice that there is 9 tiers of gap between these ships but  also that the ( in) accuracy of both ships is virtually identical, which has been my point since my very first post here.

14.5% for the Yamato and 9.1% with the Mikasa.  Really pathetic.