351 Citrusss Members 1,150 posts 9,100 battles Report post #1 Posted July 28, 2016 As CV MM has been changed having only one CV per match at higher tiers, which means both carriers are the same tier and 99% same level of fighters, this makes Dogfighting Expert skill obsolete: +10% to average damage per second for each tier of difference between them Sure, there are still lower level carriers where two different tier can be matched against each other, but it isn't as advantageous as before and max. difference is still only 1 tier as carriers cannot be matched against 2 tier difference. I use this skill in AS carriers, so now need to respec (thanks for a free one, Niko!), don't forget to do that too!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
746 [LEAK] amade Beta Testers 1,686 posts 209 battles Report post #2 Posted July 28, 2016 Isn't it obsolete anyway once you get a Tier X carrier? Granted, now it's obsolete a bit earlier down the line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
12,675 [SALVO] Crucis Members 28,248 posts 43,839 battles Report post #3 Posted July 28, 2016 Maybe they should just tweak the dogfighting skill so that it's not about helping planes that are down tiered. Just make it a general dogfighting skill for all fighters regardless of tier or the tier of the opposing fighter. Problem solved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
49 [JTFS] storm0545 Beta Testers 444 posts 3,105 battles Report post #4 Posted July 28, 2016 Since it loses usefulness it just means you can pick a new talent at that tier to replace it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,072 [SVER] Sinboto Beta Testers 3,811 posts 10,183 battles Report post #5 Posted July 28, 2016 only use I can see is dealing with the [edited]saipan in a hiryu or ranger. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
323 [KOOKS] pyantoryng Alpha Tester 2,869 posts 4,864 battles Report post #6 Posted July 28, 2016 Maybe they should just tweak the dogfighting skill so that it's not about helping planes that are down tiered. Just make it a general dogfighting skill for all fighters regardless of tier or the tier of the opposing fighter. Problem solved. It used to be that way...and it made folks with full fighter spec roflstomp those that did not. Also, stock grind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
88 [TSF] Silvin Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters 243 posts 20,381 battles Report post #7 Posted July 28, 2016 So I guess Torpedo Acceleration would be the best replacement for Dogfighting Expert? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,487 [NG-NL] Reymu Members 7,287 posts 13,074 battles Report post #8 Posted July 28, 2016 So I guess Torpedo Acceleration would be the best replacement for Dogfighting Expert? Bingo. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
365 [RSRC] Arbinshire Beta Testers 1,258 posts 9,265 battles Report post #9 Posted July 28, 2016 It was obsolete when it was introduced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,361 WanderingGhost Alpha Tester 5,281 posts 12,191 battles Report post #10 Posted July 28, 2016 It was obsolete when it was introduced. Pretty much this. This incarnation basically has never had a point. Oh sure, it adds a bonus. Not enough to actually be effective, especially for IJN vs USN. At no point when I bothered with the skill did it make a real difference. Add in the broken strafe mechanic that deletes planes automatically it's doubly obsolete. Throw in new MM changes, throw in getting to tier X, pretty sure were up to quadruply or higher on being pointless. As said above, only really useful on basically anything that faces Saipan regularly, because some genius, likely the one that came up with the skill, thought tier 9 planes vs tier 7 planes, despite tier balance being an issue SINCE ALPHA was a great idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
746 [LEAK] amade Beta Testers 1,686 posts 209 battles Report post #11 Posted July 28, 2016 thought tier 9 planes vs tier 7 planes, despite tier balance being an issue SINCE ALPHA was a great idea. Regular Tier VII CVs have tier 8 planes when upgraded. The difference is only one tier. It's like a stock CV facing an upgraded CV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
861 Sakuzhi Beta Testers 7,130 posts 7,345 battles Report post #12 Posted July 28, 2016 Regular Tier VII CVs have tier 8 planes when upgraded. The difference is only one tier. It's like a stock CV facing an upgraded CV. Minus the Hiryu's TBs being T6...sure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
746 [LEAK] amade Beta Testers 1,686 posts 209 battles Report post #13 Posted July 28, 2016 Ah, apparently I'm not up to date with some of the aircraft complement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
861 Sakuzhi Beta Testers 7,130 posts 7,345 battles Report post #14 Posted July 28, 2016 Ah, apparently I'm not up to date with some of the aircraft complement. It's one of the (few) Aircraft that isn't upgraded from the T6 to T7 CV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
12,675 [SALVO] Crucis Members 28,248 posts 43,839 battles Report post #15 Posted July 28, 2016 Maybe they should just tweak the dogfighting skill so that it's not about helping planes that are down tiered. Just make it a general dogfighting skill for all fighters regardless of tier or the tier of the opposing fighter. Problem solved. It used to be that way...and it made folks with full fighter spec roflstomp those that did not. Also, stock grind. Well, it seems to me that the solution to that would be to just reduce whatever percentage bonuses the skill provided to more balanced levels. Alternatively, come up with a completely different, but useful aircraft related skill. Regardless, any skill they give will have benefits that will give advantages over an enemy's planes that aren't using it. And isn't that sort of the point? It just seems like the only thing that has to be considered is how great the advantage should be before it's considered too great and OP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4,616 [-K-] Edgecase [-K-] Members 6,122 posts 29,452 battles Report post #16 Posted July 28, 2016 Use your almost-free respecs to drop this trash if you took it for Ranked like I did... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
50 [SOV] NozTheWhiteDawn Beta Testers 207 posts 7,727 battles Report post #17 Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) Regular Tier VII CVs have tier 8 planes when upgraded. The difference is only one tier. It's like a stock CV facing an upgraded CV. Are you playing a different game from everyone else? Because it doesn't take a genius to do a brief look through the trees and notice this is a blatant falsehood. Just about every tier starts with the top planes from the previous tier, which are the lower tier. Their upgraded planes then proceed to actually be the same tier as the CV. The exceptions being the Bogue, Indy and Ranger where their non-fighters simply don't have an upgrade - usually getting the next tier of planes automatically - the Langley which upgrades from a T3 dive bomber to a... T3 dive bomber, and 2 specific Zuiho planes. Those being its fighter, which upgrades to a T6 for seemingly no purpose but to make it even easier for Bogues to shoot them down, and the bloody T6(realistically T5.5) Kate it upgrades its torpedo bombers to, which the IJN line then gets stuck with all the way to T8 Shokaku stock. Edited July 28, 2016 by NozTheWhiteDawn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
746 [LEAK] amade Beta Testers 1,686 posts 209 battles Report post #18 Posted July 28, 2016 Are you playing a different game from everyone else? As a matter of fact, I was reading off my old spreadsheets from before aircraft complement was reworked. Ah, apparently I'm not up to date with some of the aircraft complement. So sue me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
50 [SOV] NozTheWhiteDawn Beta Testers 207 posts 7,727 battles Report post #19 Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) As a matter of fact, I was reading off my old spreadsheets from before aircraft complement was reworked. So sue me. Probably came down harsher than I otherwise would have since I saw the Supertester label. People DO notice that, and the initial statement was pretty wrong. So, uh, sorry? Plus the Kate issue does incredibly annoy me ever since it was introduced several patches ago. Hiryu can do marginally well with it if they're cautious, but Shokaku basically having to either free exp to the upgrade or just pretend they don't have torpedo bombers until its upgraded is utter crap - because they die in seconds against equivalent tier AA fire, and even faster against the T9s it can also see. Edited July 28, 2016 by NozTheWhiteDawn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
746 [LEAK] amade Beta Testers 1,686 posts 209 battles Report post #20 Posted July 28, 2016 It's not a problem. When I'm wrong I just admit that I'm wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
386 Misniso Members 2,829 posts 6,653 battles Report post #21 Posted July 28, 2016 I think it should be changed. Let the skill reduce damage taken when planes are strafed. I.e. when strafed by friendly or enemy planes, you don't experience huge losses due to pilot situational awareness, plane performance, or some other plot armor or something. Failing that...make it so that your fighters can actually continue moving with a performance penalty even when locked in a dogfight with another fighter group. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,852 Madwolf05 ∞ Alpha Tester 7,170 posts 4,070 battles Report post #22 Posted July 28, 2016 It's really never been appealing imo for many reasons already touched on. It really needs to be changed to something that's better for all CVs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3,890 [-K--] vak_ Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters 8,179 posts 10,923 battles Report post #23 Posted July 28, 2016 It's not obsolete (stock airplanes, or running into Saipans in Ranger/Hiryu), but it's not nearly as useful as it once was. Basically, ever since they started doing even carrier matches, that skill became much less needed. If you run torpedo bombers, just grab TA and be done with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,487 [NG-NL] Reymu Members 7,287 posts 13,074 battles Report post #24 Posted July 28, 2016 I think it should be changed. Let the skill reduce damage taken when planes are strafed. I.e. when strafed by friendly or enemy planes, you don't experience huge losses due to pilot situational awareness, plane performance, or some other plot armor or something. Failing that...make it so that your fighters can actually continue moving with a performance penalty even when locked in a dogfight with another fighter group. I'd rather it increase fighter ammo loadout or DPS...but in all honesty, might be best if this gave fighter strafe the ability to destroy or temp disable AA on an enemy ship. If the target's using DF, that effect also gets shot down until the AA reactivates. Not really sure having it buff bomber HP is a good idea. Against their ideal prey (Shokaku bombers vs. a NM, for example), the bombers are more or less invulnerable to that AA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,556 [GWG] AVR_Project Members 8,019 posts 15,964 battles Report post #25 Posted July 29, 2016 That's why the 15 point captain goes on the Independence (for team battles), and a 13 point captain goes on the Ranger. The 13 point Ranger Cap has both Dog-Fighting AND Fast torps selected. And it will be facing the tier 7 Saipan. ... Often times, and annoyingly so, I am in a 4 carrier match paired up with a CV two tiers above me. Those usually don't go well for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
