British Cruiser Line Theory Crafting

[Labrat93]

 

This is all purely speculation, and all opinions are welcome!

 

So, as we all know, Her Majesty's Navy is coming soon (perhaps).  Since we know little about what WG plans to use for the CL/CA line, I have decided to throw some ideas out there for all to see/dismiss/criticize/etc.

 

Now, without with a moments notice......

 

T1- Insect class Gunboat

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insect-class_gunboat

 

T2- Diadem class protected crusier

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diadem-class_cruiser

 

T3- Challenger Class

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger-class_cruiser

 

T4- Danae Class Light Cruiser

-https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danae-class_cruiser

- Recommend name change to Dragon, Dauntless, Or Delhi

 

T5- Hawkins Class Light Cruiser

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkins-class_cruiser

- Recommend name change to Frobisher, Cavendish, Vindictive

 

T6-Arethusa Class Light Cruiser

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arethusa-class_cruiser_(1934)

-Recommend name change to Galatea, or Penelope

 

T7- York Class Heavy Cruiser

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/York-class_cruiser

- Obviously needs renamed to Exeter!!!

 

T8- Crown Colony Class Light Crusier

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Colony-class_cruiser

- Reccomend name change to Ceylon, or Newfoundland

 

T9- Minotaur Class Light Cruiser

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaur-class_cruiser_(1943)

- Reccomend keeping name or change to Superb

 

T10- couldn't decide on an appropriate ship for usage. Perhaps moving Minotaur to 10 and finding a sub-class to fill in the gap around T6/7

 

Sorry for lack of info an leaving info to the wiki's. Typing on the form with a iPad is proving difficult and somewhat glitchy.

[Paint_Huffer]

Why not put the County Class ships at tier 7 or 8 and then bump York down to Tier 6?

[OffShorePanda97]

Is Belfast there? This might be a stupid question.  Think she is a county class.

 

[mr3awsome]

Is Belfast there? This might be a stupid question.  Think she is a county class.

No, Belfast was the 2nd unit of the Edinburgh class, which should be tier VIII. 

 

The British cruiser line is quite hard to make due to the plethora of classes at practically ever tier from II to VII. 

[OffShorePanda97]

No, Belfast was the 2nd unit of the Edinburgh class, which should be tier VIII. 

 

The British cruiser line is quite hard to make due to the plethora of classes at practically ever tier from II to VII. 

 

oh thank you, I know nothing about the RN.

[WanderingGhost]

Yeah, no, Insect class I'm pretty sure is not tier 1, it falls into "does not fit this game" like PT boats or the like. It's meant for rivers and the shore to start with. No way York class is before Minotaur as it has larger guns and part of tiering they want to keep the size bigger at the end of the line and not up and down. Also the question is do they start as a mix line, just light cruisers, etc.

 

Maybe Boadicea for tier 1, might fit down there (little faster and better armed than Erie but armour is similar/lesser). Or put that at tier 2, not really sure what to do about tier 1. Diadem goes to tier 3, 16 152 mm guns is where you see that stuff. Wasn't half asleep I'd try recommending more options that may work better and reorder things.

 

 

[Swine_007]

I cant guess at the T1 really but a gunboat with only 2 guns ... I dont think so 

 

T2 - Diadem is a nice boat but shes a BIG protected cruiser ... essentially double the displacement of Chester so probably unlikely.  Perhaps something more like the Highflyer class.

 

T3 - Monmouth class

 

T4 - Town Class ( 1910 + ) - Birmingham group 

 

T5 - Leander Class ( 1933 ) 

 

T6 - Town Class ( 1937 ) 

 

T7 - County Class - Norfolk group 

 

Honestly after that I run out of suggestions.  But those would be mine 

[mofton]

T1-T3 I don't worry about.

 

T4 - D or even E class would do

 

T5 - I think Hawkins is problematic, either a bad gun fit with 7.5in or less interesting with 6in's.

 

T6 - Arethusa would be very weak at T5, putting her at T6 would be terrible. A ROCN/PLAN premium is likely though.

 

T7 - York is pretty equivalent to, if not worse than the T5 Furutaka. She might make T6 with an Aoba-ish ROF boost but I doubt it.

 

T8 - Crown Colony I'd consider for T6 with 12 guns or even T5 with 9 guns (some lost X turret for more AA/stability)

 

T9 - Minotaur I'd not include at all, she's certainly not a T8. The Edinburgh subclass of the Town class is potentially a good T8.

 

I think due to:

1) Z4A (a CL with 5x2 6in guns with autoloaders) which would be high tier (9 or 10) being spoiled in Russian Cruiser release video

2) WG statements that they don't want to jump up and down calibers as an excuse for Gneisenau getting 15in guns

 

I expect the whole line to be CL, my stab is:

T1 - Bittern - direct rip from Trainspite's line

T2 - Weymouth - direct rip from Trainspite's line

T3 - C class CL

T4 - D/E (as appropriately balanced) CL

T5 - Leander

T6 - Fiji (9 gun)

T7 - Southampton

T8 - Edinburgh

T9 - Z2 (like Z4A, fewer guns)

T10 - Z4A

 

I would also recommend checking out lines by Trainspite, dseehafer and Destroyer_Fuyukuzi:

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/67246-royal-navy-a-la-trainspite/#topmost

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/83124-dseehafers-guess-for-rn-cruisers/page__hl__%20fuyuzuki%20%20cruiser#topmost

(can't find Fuyuzuki's)

 

Eisennagel did a nice comparison of Furutaka and York.

 

[BladedPheonix]

No dido class? I'm very dissapointed......

 

[mofton]

No dido class? I'm very dissapointed......

I really, really like the Dido class. I think they are sexy as all that, did good things and adding a unique 5x2 turret layout would be great (who wants more 3x3 eh?).

 

Unfortunately I note that Dido would benefit fully from AFT, BFT and EM, while keeping torpedoes i.e. if she were a premium (a la Krasny Krap) she would be a perfect RN destroyer Captain trainer. So I'd anticipate her as a Premium with luck a few months before the RN DD line. Maybe 2018.

 

My assessment of her without some major soft buffs and a major ROF buff is that she's moderate-weak T5 material. Another Krasny Krap parallel! Although I think she'll be far better than that ship. My gun-based explanation (though she would also have the least HP of any T5 cruisers, and be the slowest bar the Krispy Kreme) is here:

 

I think Dido may need some help, though I feel that slapping radar/smoke/low detection on a ship to get it working is a sign it's a bit weak. The Dido's were designed with an idea to make them low and stealthy, but triple-decking the turrets may have scotched that.

 

Dido should hit better, further than Atlanta but has major drawbacks. The muzzle velocity increase is slight - less than 5% but taking range at 45' elevation the 5.25 comes out 1/3 ahead - shell flight times should be lower. The 5.25in/50 shell is 80 lbs vs. 55lbs for the USN 5in/38 which also  suggests more damage and penetration.

 

The comparison I see is that even though Atlanta gets a nerfed ROF from what she could have done to 12 RPM in-game that's still much better than Dido's historic 8 RPM.

 

It's also an issue that with the Konigsberg/Nurnburg around at Dido's tier (I think she'll be 5, maybe pushing 6) she'll be up against German railguns (960 ms) which also shoot more rapidly - 10 RPM on the Nurnburg.

 

Weight of shell/minute (guns x ROF x shell weight):

Dido:  10 x 8.8 x 80 lbs = 7,040 lbs and muzzle velocity 812m/s (assumes BFT)

Atlanta: 14 x 12 x 55lbs = 9,240 lbs and muzzle velocity 792m/s

Nurnburg: 9 x 10 x 100lbs = 9,000 lbs and muzzle velocity 960m/s

Konigsberg: 9 x 8 x 100lbs = 7,200 lbs

 

Even the tier 5 Konigsberg throws out more firepower, concentrated into shells going much faster, hitting harder with a longer range. Dido with her historic 8 RPM and 10 guns is not all that much like Atlanta. Much more like Konigsberg (same ROF, 1 more gun).

 

Dido's going to need something to make it... Heck even Omaha actually shoots more RPM - 8.6 rounds per gun.

[Battlegroup]

T7- York Class Heavy Cruiser

- https://en.m.wikiped...k-class_cruiser

- Obviously needs renamed to Exeter!!!

 

If using the York class, keep it as York and have the Exeter as a Preimum. 

[Lawson_Ramage]

Put the Tiger class in tier 10 with it's twin autoloading 6in guns at 20rds per minute. There was also designs for the Neptune class Light cruiser, and the Admiral class heavy cruiser.

[mofton]

Put the Tiger class in tier 10 with it's twin autoloading 6in guns at 20rds per minute. There was also designs for the Neptune class Light cruiser, and the Admiral class heavy cruiser.

 

Tiger's not that great in-game to my estimation.Throws out 80 RPM. Belfast throws out 96 RPM and has other advantages, despite being earlier.

 

Admiral might be sweet though.

 

Design Z4A (same 20 RPM as Tiger but 5 turrets instead of 2 - i.e. 200 RPM!) is shown here:

at 4:02. That's my take on T10, unless it's a red herring.

 

[Tzarevitch]

 

This is all purely speculation, and all opinions are welcome!

 

So, as we all know, Her Majesty's Navy is coming soon (perhaps).  Since we know little about what WG plans to use for the CL/CA line, I have decided to throw some ideas out there for all to see/dismiss/criticize/etc.

 

Now, without with a moments notice......

 

T1- Insect class Gunboat

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insect-class_gunboat

 

T2- Diadem class protected crusier

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diadem-class_cruiser

 

T3- Challenger Class

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger-class_cruiser

 

T4- Danae Class Light Cruiser

-https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danae-class_cruiser

- Recommend name change to Dragon, Dauntless, Or Delhi

 

T5- Hawkins Class Light Cruiser

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkins-class_cruiser

- Recommend name change to Frobisher, Cavendish, Vindictive

 

T6-Arethusa Class Light Cruiser

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arethusa-class_cruiser_(1934)

-Recommend name change to Galatea, or Penelope

 

T7- York Class Heavy Cruiser

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/York-class_cruiser

- Obviously needs renamed to Exeter!!!

 

T8- Crown Colony Class Light Crusier

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Colony-class_cruiser

- Reccomend name change to Ceylon, or Newfoundland

 

T9- Minotaur Class Light Cruiser

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaur-class_cruiser_(1943)

- Reccomend keeping name or change to Superb

 

T10- couldn't decide on an appropriate ship for usage. Perhaps moving Minotaur to 10 and finding a sub-class to fill in the gap around T6/7

 

Sorry for lack of info an leaving info to the wiki's. Typing on the form with a iPad is proving difficult and somewhat glitchy.

 

  Several of those are far too high, namely your T6-T9. I agree with some of the other posters.

T5 - I think Hawkins is ok.

T6 - Arethusa is very weak. It could also do T5 maybe. Arethusa would have to equal Cleveland at T6 and that isn't happening. I think you could possibly put York there too and she  wouldn't embarrass.

T7 - First of all, there is already a Yorck there lol. Second, York is way too weak. She wasn't even the better of the two of that class. She is a weak 6gun heavy cruiser when everyone else is 8-10 guns and a bigger ship. I think you would have to put the Norfolks here. The last of the County class wouldn't embarrass much at this tier. .

T8+ The British didn't really build anything that fits here and I am unfamiliar with their paper designs. The Towns might fit, but I think they are a bit too weak for a proper T8. They are more properly also T7s.

 

 

 

 

[Eisennagel]

 

 

Hawkins can fit a Tier 5 but the Leander, which can fit a Tier 5, will be much better to play.   Light, draggy shells makes it arc shell flights more than the Cleveland, despite a 844 mps muzzle velocity.  The shells are also lighter than the Kirov's and have less impact and penetration.  It would be the weakest of the heavy cruisers you put in Tier 5.  

 

Due to gun progression rule, if you put Hawkins in Tier 5, Tier 6 and above would certainly be heavy cruisers.  Which means York, then County class then Surrey class.

 

Plus the Leander is much more historic.  A Leander would will lead to more light cruisers from Tier 6 and above.  That means you can put a 9 or 12 gun light cruiser on Tier 6, followed by another 12 gun light cruiser for T7 or you can also shift to a heavy cruiser like the County class.  Tier 8 can be another 12 gun light cruiser or a heavy cruiser, like Surrey.  

 

Even if you artificially boost the York's RoF to 5 to 6, which is I would think very liberal, at Tier 6, I am not sure and I don't think its more competitive to a 9 gun light cruiser like the Swiftsure, Minotaur or Crown Colony class, and in fact, I think you can fit a 12 gun Crown Colony there.  

 

There are three styles you can design a British cruiser line.

 

IJN CA intensive style ---

 

Starting at Tier 5, you go heavy cruiser, with the Hawkins.  Every ship thereof is a heavy cruiser, going to paper ones at higher tiers.

 

USN and German style.

 

Tier 5 and 6 are light cruisers, you begin a heavy cruiser at Tier 7 and maintain heavy cruisers all the way.

 

Russian style

 

Light cruisers all the way up to Tier 8.  Then go with paper heavy cruisers at Tier 9 or 10, or go with more light cruisers.

 

 

 

 

[RRFroste]

Umm.. they've been announced.

http://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/rule-britannia/