Turning off secondaries is a foolish suggestion (rant)

[Raptor_alcor]

Yes, I'm making a thread out of this because there's a subset of wargaming appologists who are a bit too dim to realize that something nearly 100% outside of the player's control should not be cause for a player to be punished. I have seen this suggestion time and time again and I have asked time and time again. WHY? Why should I turn off my AA AND the medium-short range defenses on BOTH SIDES of my warship just because wargaming is a little too dim to turn off damage to friendlies involving this?

 

I see zero reason to cripple my own defense and potential damage output because someone is not able to see a friendly ship's guns firing all together. If the answer to friendly secondaries causing friendly fire is 'turn it off' let's start letting AA cause damage to friendly aircraft. 

 

Wargaming can do things wrong, does no one remember the very similar suggestion of "buy an SSD" back before wargaming re-optimized, the players giving this suggestion saying that it was the fault of the playerbase and not wargaming? They were wrong then, they are wrong now. 

[Grevester]

I've played in battleships and run into this situation. What do I do when my secondaries hit an ally and I get a text warning for it? I turn them off. I then proceed to apologize to whoever my secondaries hit.

 

The reason you get people who say "Just turn them off" is because to us it is literally that easy.

 

You know who REALLY has no control over your secondaries? The guy you let your secondaries shoot.

 

Despite how easy it is to do, WG have already recognized and plan to change receiving pink status for secondary battery damage(afaik). Now, in the future, you can smile when an allied battleship is hitting you with secondaries because he is now unaware it is happening (chat warning removed) or just never cared to begin with and will no longer be punished for it.

[Raptor_alcor]

I've played in battleships and run into this situation. What do I do when my secondaries hit an ally and I get a text warning for it? I turn them off. I then proceed to apologize to whoever my secondaries hit.

 

The reason you get people who say "Just turn them off" is because to us it is literally that easy.

 

You know who REALLY has no control over your secondaries? The guy you let your secondaries shoot.

 

Despite how easy it is to do, WG have already recognized and plan to change receiving pink status for secondary battery damage(afaik). Now, in the future, you can smile when an allied battleship is hitting you with secondaries because he is now unaware it is happening (chat warning removed) or just never cared to begin with and will no longer be punished for it.

 

The players should not be forced to work arround a problem that is created because the developers were incapable of predicting it and are unwilling to properly fix it. I'm fine with taking secondary hits from battleship (or even cruiser) secondaries (WHICH ARE AI CONTROLLED) because if it happens I'm the one being stupid as all hell and am between a ship covered in guns, and those guns' target. 

[Grevester]

 

The players should not be forced to work arround a problem that is created because the developers were incapable of predicting it and are unwilling to properly fix it. I'm fine with taking secondary hits from battleship (or even cruiser) secondaries (WHICH ARE AI CONTROLLED) because if it happens I'm the one being stupid as all hell and am between a ship covered in guns, and those guns' target. 

 

Secondaries hitting allies has been around forever. It only became a topic of issue because now you get penalized for letting it happen a lot easier (due to team damage required to be pink being lowered). It is literally the press of a button to stop it from happening. 

[Takamachi_Nanoha_sg]

Even though secondaries firing and aiming is not controlled by player, but the on/off button is fully controllable. Similar to main guns, you hold your fire if friends are possible to be hit.

 

If you intentionally leave secondaries on, with knowing you might be able to hit friendlies, it is because you want to have your secondaries to do damage. It is your own choice to allow the secondaries do friendly damage.

 

Although I'm fully in support for disabling secondary friendly damage...

[this_might_be_slak__]

I repeat, I see some people are incapable of noticing, no offense puli but it is not as simple as pressing the P button because that kills my defense against the air AND against surface vessels on BOTH SIDES of my ship, it is not worth sparing my ally some chip damage just to risk myself losing my entire ship. It is exceedingly stupid that the player has to work arround turning off every bit of defense that isn't their main guns because wargaming has decided that guns that are less accurate than a drunk redneck and are 100% under ai controlled are going to deal damage to friendlies. 

 

wow Redneck!?!

 

Really?

 

 

[MidnightShamalan]

 

Secondaries hitting allies has been around forever. It only became a topic of issue because now you get penalized for letting it happen a lot easier (due to team damage required to be pink being lowered). It is literally the press of a button to stop it from happening. 

 

one shot is all it takes to start a fire or detonate a ship. saying that you shut them off when they start hitting allies is not a viable solution.

 

and if you do shut them off? your secondary control also controls your AA. what are you going to do when you're under air attack at the same time? still gonna press that button?

[Grevester]

So, during my playing today I evaluated my opinion on this.

I DO see both sides of this argument. The situations you are describing:

 

Enemy to your left, ally to your right with another enemy just beyond him.

or

Ally to your side with an enemy beyond him while enemy aircraft are in the air.

 

While I understand that in these two situations (and probably variants of such) are extremely annoying positions to have to disable secondary guns, they are also extremely rare. You will find that a single enemy to your side with an ally in the way happens way more. Now, if your expected change is disabling secondaries separate from AA, or turn off sides individually I am fine with that. However the suggested change is normally to remove secondary damage/remove pink penalties from secondaries. I do not agree with this, players need to be accountable for what their ship does, whether maximum or minimum control over it. 

[alexf24]

 

one shot is all it takes to start a fire or detonate a ship. saying that you shut them off when they start hitting allies is not a viable solution.

 

and if you do shut them off? your secondary control also controls your AA. what are you going to do when you're under air attack at the same time? still gonna press that button?

 

True, and then there is Mikasa. If you shut them off, you render your ship useless for everything except becoming a piñata. Then what's the point?

[Captain_Chaos_NA]

It needs to be fixed, this is not a player issue.  I don't recall this personally happening to me, I'm far more likely to wreck a friendly cruising right next to me while I'm in sniper scope mode something else that could use an indicator.

[The_GoDDfather]

  *snip* guns that are less accurate than a drunk redneck *snip*

 

"Why of course I can shoot a beer can off your head at 100ft with buckshot from a 10 gauge shotgun! Here, hold my beer."

[danredda1616]

I do not agree with this, players need to be accountable for what their ship does, whether maximum or minimum control over it. 

I cannot disagree more. If I could aim my secondaries sure, but in their current state I do NOT think that there should be friendly fire for secondary batteries. Simple as that. It would be like if they added an AA mechanic that if enemy planes were near allied planes, you shoot down both your friendly and enemy planes. It's a dumb mechanic, and needs to be changed.

[Lady_Athena]

 

The players should not be forced to work arround a problem that is created because the developers were incapable of predicting it and are unwilling to properly fix it. I'm fine with taking secondary hits from battleship (or even cruiser) secondaries (WHICH ARE AI CONTROLLED) because if it happens I'm the one being stupid as all hell and am between a ship covered in guns, and those guns' target. 

 

It's a mechanic, and one that shouldn't ever be a problem if 1 of the 2 people involved are not either A) An idiot B) Selfish or C) ignorant.

 

First off, most ships secondaries are crazy short range, if you're between an enemy and a friendly ship and you're getting slammed by their secondaries... oh idk.... slow the F down and pull back? Seems pretty legit, you can still do damage, can still shoot, can still be extremely effective, while getting out of the damn way of his secondaries.

 

Secondly, if that idiot between you and the enemy is going full [edited], just shut off your secondaries. 1) they rarely do any damage anyway, (I know this would hurt Tirpitz's and a few other ships where the secondaries are actually extremely good, but better than nothing). Or, you yourself slow down like a smart cat.

 

---------

 

One of the two people need to have a little IQ for this too not be a problem. I don't see why WGing has to coddle the player base when they're doing retarded stuff with the mechanics, or refuse to learn. It's bad enough they're adding circles in smoke rings, and giving you exact data on if you're over penning, bouncing, etc. because the wonderfully intelligent amoeba's playing this game can't figure it out themselves.

I cannot disagree more. If I could aim my secondaries sure, but in their current state I do NOT think that there should be friendly fire for secondary batteries. Simple as that. It would be like if they added an AA mechanic that if enemy planes were near allied planes, you shoot down both your friendly and enemy planes. It's a dumb mechanic, and needs to be changed.

That argument is invalid.

 

The range of the secondaries is so short if you're between them and an enemy you're doing something WRONG. This is not the case with AA fire that for many ships can reach out quite a long ways. Friendly planes not taking AA fire is more of a balance, rather than coddling the player base. Since CV's have limited ammunition unlike other ships in the game, and losing aircraft at all vastly cripples them. Therefore no friendly AA.

 

If that wasn't the case..... I'll bet you anything WGing would have had friendly AA damage.

[danredda1616]

The range of the secondaries is so short if you're between them and an enemy you're doing something WRONG.

Have you ever played a Yamato? Mine shoots nearly 11km with secondaries. That's a lot of space for ppl to get in, and even with the tier 5 secondary skill there are still wayward shots (although a lot less, due to requiring Ctrl+click). Nearly all secondary ranges, especially on high tier BBs, are SIGNIFICANTLY further than AA ranges.

[killsbane67]

I'm not turning them off. Simply don't get between me and a enemy combatant.

[RipNuN2]

They are already considering eliminating friendly fire for secondaries, no need to rehash what has already been discussed in countless other threads.

[Wowzery]

When it comes to secondaries, why do your allies continue to go between you and the enemy at such close ranges?  I have yet to understand the reasoning here.  I've had it done by people with 1000s of games in a T2 game in my Mikasa.  They run their little CA between me and the enemy, and the Mikasa's secondary range is less than 4km.  So why?  Bot I could understand, but these are human players who are supposed to be smarter than bots.  I guess not, the human players are dumber.

[PepperMill]

 

I see zero reason to cripple my own defense and potential damage output because someone is not able to see a friendly ship's guns firing all together. If the answer to friendly secondaries causing friendly fire is 'turn it off' let's start letting AA cause damage to friendly aircraft. 

 

 

There is little difference between this and "I see zero reason not to fire my torps even if you are in front of me.  Why cripple my ability to do damage when you can see my Minekaze is behind you."   

[seachief]

As the new player on the block I agree with Raptor!  This need to be address and fixed

[LemonadeWarrior]

I killed a friendly Yamato with my secondaries (Monty). I don't really care about it, collateral damage happens so now and than. If I have the time to turn it off I will, but it happens so rarely that I don't really bother about it. Didn't have the pink status before, so it was fun to feel special.

[Combined_Fleet_HQ]

I feel like the situation where your secondaries are going off as well as your AA is so rare that the circumstance hardly counts as a valid argument. Unless you're running stock hulls on both ships, I don't see a CV risking a run on two ships that were in such close proximity to one another that they're secondaries were causing friendly fire. Low tiers don't have the reserves to risk trading planes for dmg and high tier ships have relatively avg to great AA. 

 

Though harping on the OP, I do concur with many of the other comments who present more realistic and valid arguments about secondary friendly fire. Though OP lets not just say WG was stupid and [edited] up. They're totally in the wrong.

 Not only does it make you seem like an [edited]but it devalues your rant when you just devolve to ad hominem. WoWs is still new, relatively speaking. There's a lot to do and a big fanbase to please. WG has already addressed this issue, not to mention the countless other - more constructive - threads regarding the issue, so venting on the forums is pointless.

 

~HQ 

[remaimed_user]

If your stupid enough to drive between a friendly and his target when they are within secondary range, you deserve what you get. I've done that and totally deserved the damage taken. If WG had implemented a "forgive" button for team damage, I would have pressed it. The same with blindly sailing into the path of friendly torpedoes. Your own fault, suck it up.

 Turning off defenses because some idiot sailed into your firing line is not an option.

[goldeagle1123]

I've played in battleships and run into this situation. What do I do when my secondaries hit an ally and I get a text warning for it? I turn them off. I then proceed to apologize to whoever my secondaries hit.

 

The reason you get people who say "Just turn them off" is because to us it is literally that easy.

 

You know who REALLY has no control over your secondaries? The guy you let your secondaries shoot.

 

Despite how easy it is to do, WG have already recognized and plan to change receiving pink status for secondary battery damage(afaik). Now, in the future, you can smile when an allied battleship is hitting you with secondaries because he is now unaware it is happening (chat warning removed) or just never cared to begin with and will no longer be punished for it.

 

No, wrong. I shouldn't have to give up all secondary defense as well as all of my AA defense because some jackhole wants to play thread the needle between my Izumo and the enemy Yamato who is 3km away from me. At that point it becomes THEIR fault that I'm unable to exchange secondary fire, and that i'm now being bombed to hell by the enemy Midway and unable to use my AA. (This is what happened yesterday in a game, only I just said f*** it and didn't turn of my secondaries, let the idiotic potato get hit by them.)

[DokturProfesur]

I'm not turning off my AA defenses because you decided to be my meat shield.

[Estimated_Prophet]

For me once on Solomon in my Mikasa, literally was turn off my secondaries or blow the carp out of a St Louis that was gallantly acting as a shell magnet for  me otherwise... St Louis at 1k, enemy Mikasa at 2k... I was actually pretty hacked off, but it wasn't long before I was able to shoot again, thanks to the enemy Mikasa... 

 

Thank you for helping me get closer St Louis! Your sacrifice was not in vain!

 

Mikasa is pretty much the only ship where I ever worry about turning off the secondaries.