Tier IX X Battleships are OP

[Herr_Reitz]

I've been playing the Iowa on the PT server. Coop and random both. Normally I play DD because well, I like the speed and maneuverability of them. But these high tier BB are OP if you use them aggressively. Sure, the PT crowd may not be the best players but from what I can see on it... if you run premium and actively engage the enemy, push them, you come out with positive cash flow and decent xp. 

 

Their guns are well... amazing. Heck, I obliterated more than one DD using AP! Scary but true. And they do turn, stop and start pretty well... considering they are monstrous behemoths of man-made alloys (in our case, pixels). But here's the dirty little secret.

 

No Need To Camp.

 

I've been trying to look at the purported reasons for camping always explained everywhere on the forum. I - and this is my personal observation - find no need or reason to camp in one of these babies. They really are powerful weapons. And this is the USN line Iowa I'm talking about. Heck... the Montana and North Carolina were good too.. I dont have the time to test the other lines but they  are probably just as good. 

 

​Thing is - if you are somewhat aggressive with one of these things and can aim reasonably well you can devastate a lot of the lesser ships with ease. Fully equipped with a 15pt cmdr they instill such confidence in what they are able to do if you are willing to go for it well... let's just say it is now much more difficult for me to sympathize with those crying out for nerfs on their opponents. 

 

Blast away. 

 

[SergeantHop]

20 second minimum rudder time. Turns quickly. Does not compute.

 

BB aren't that OP, but as always, a smart player will do well in a ship.

[RipNuN2]

Isnt part of this the fact that many of the PT players are from the RU server whose meta is to get close and brawl?

[Terrible_Turtle]

The designation of "OP" is reserved for a select few ships in game. Battleships don't fit the category unless you're talking about the Nikolai. 

 

[Tachnechdorus]

I've been playing the Iowa on the PT server. Coop and random both. Normally I play DD because well, I like the speed and maneuverability of them. But these high tier BB are OP if you use them aggressively. Sure, the PT crowd may not be the best players but from what I can see on it... if you run premium and actively engage the enemy, push them, you come out with positive cash flow and decent xp. 

 

Their guns are well... amazing. Heck, I obliterated more than one DD using AP! Scary but true. And they do turn, stop and start pretty well... considering they are monstrous behemoths of man-made alloys (in our case, pixels). But here's the dirty little secret.

 

No Need To Camp.

 

I've been trying to look at the purported reasons for camping always explained everywhere on the forum. I - and this is my personal observation - find no need or reason to camp in one of these babies. They really are powerful weapons. And this is the USN line Iowa I'm talking about. Heck... the Montana and North Carolina were good too.. I dont have the time to test the other lines but they  are probably just as good. 

 

​Thing is - if you are somewhat aggressive with one of these things and can aim reasonably well you can devastate a lot of the lesser ships with ease. Fully equipped with a 15pt cmdr they instill such confidence in what they are able to do if you are willing to go for it well... let's just say it is now much more difficult for me to sympathize with those crying out for nerfs on their opponents. 

 

Blast away. 

 Last night I chased down a wounded Iowa class battleship in the open with my soviet tier (7) destroyer it took half my lifeline but sank and survived his damage and went on to hit a Montana hiding near some Islands with (3) torpedoes ........   hehehehehe

[Gavroche_]

The designation of "OP" is reserved for a select few ships in game. Battleships don't fit the category unless you're talking about the Nikolai. 

 

 

Yamato says hi

[_Jayzilla]

BBs can be unstoppable if they are not focused when they are pushing. Once a BB has hit that half health mark when it is pushing and is on fire it becomes a do or die situation. Usually good battleship players know when to engage on a push, or that "invincible" feeling quickly turns into remorse when a team does not support a BB that is pushing.

[PelicanHazard]

I didn't feel any more invincible in my first Iowa game than my last North Carolina game...

[Herr_Reitz]

Well the public perception by most non BB players seems, appears to be at least, the high tier BB are too uhm, shall we say cautious. Yes, the matches were on the PT server where a lot of foreign spellings appeared in chat with exclamation points... they look all caps to me :-) but my point was simply the power and ability of these ships if pushed, if used aggressively, could be considered (possibly) OP. 

 

I also checked the net income... sure, it wasn't massive - but it was positive, anywhere from tens of thousands on up. I really had to work hard to have a negative cash flow on one of them. Of course, this is under the PT "premium" time. 

 

My takeaway is there needs to be little to no further adjustments to balance the game for these ships' enemies. They can smear anything if they want to smear it. 

[Show_Me_Your_Cits]

If I could give you the keys to my Iowa, Montana, or Yamato on live I would. You'd play one or two games and say "Oh.. That's why..." after getting completely merc'd pushing by yourself. 

 

PT is full of players from different regions and, more importantly, ones that haven't gotten to T10 on live. The skill deviation from T10 on the PTS to T10 on live is enormous. On the PTS, hardly anyone really knows the ships inside and out, so you can be reckless and have some fun with relative impunity. Live? Not so much. I'd love for the PT meta to translate to the live server but it'll never happen. 

[PelicanHazard]

I figured as much when a Yamat

If I could give you the keys to my Iowa, Montana, or Yamato on live I would. You'd play one or two games and say "Oh.. That's why..." after getting completely merc'd pushing by yourself. 

 

PT is full of players from different regions and, more importantly, ones that haven't gotten to T10 on live. The skill deviation from T10 on the PTS to T10 on live is enormous. On the PTS, hardly anyone really knows the ships inside and out, so you can be reckless and have some fun with relative impunity. Live? Not so much. I'd love for the PT meta to translate to the live server but it'll never happen. 

 

I figured as much when a Yamato did absolutely nothing to hide his broadside as I slowly sailed by in the next channel at half speed and fired all Montana's guns into him for a Devastating Strike. I was spotted the whole time.

[Show_Me_Your_Cits]

I figured as much when a Yamat

 

I figured as much when a Yamato did absolutely nothing to hide his broadside as I slowly sailed by in the next channel at half speed and fired all Montana's guns into him for a Devastating Strike. I was spotted the whole time.

 

That's why I love the PTS... Shameless seal clubbing on a whole new level. 

[Xannari]

High tier cruisers are infinitely more OP. At least with battleships you have to get a Yahtzee before you can actually do damage. Cruisers can do it reliably, consistently, and effectively, which no ship should ever be able to do 

[Show_Me_Your_Cits]

High tier cruisers are infinitely more OP. At least with battleships you have to get a Yahtzee before you can actually do damage. Cruisers can do it reliably, consistently, and effectively, which no ship should ever be able to do 

 

You forgot to mention invisibly. Or even behind an island. 

 

Cruisers are fine, fire is the problem. But that's a conversation that's been beaten to death. 

[Herr_Reitz]

What I'm suggesting I suppose would be the high tier BB are more offensive than defensive. And unless they are boosting the credits earned on the PT server, it seemed one kill and a few good hits would allow the ship to break even or very close to it. In such a manner as to make them playable. 

 

Where I'm probably wrong here is thinking there is justification on the part of the high tier BB for "camping" or staying in the rear. And that some of the justification was related to repair costs and/or torpedoes. At least in my silly mind, I don't find either of those solid reasons.

 

Of course you are correct - the PTS is not the NA server. And a lot of the players are likely driving ships above anything they've ever driven - like me, although I do have an Amagi parked in the docks. 

 

And for me - the experience with the ships is actually a good thing for me. I was so convinced how costly the ships were to operate that I made up my mind there was no point going up the rest of the BB lines. Now having more experience with them, that is no longer a concern for me. I may actually pick up the USN BB line again... 

 

... that is, after the German lines debut. 

[Camping4XP]

Isnt part of this the fact that many of the PT players are from the RU server whose meta is to get close and brawl?

 

Seriously? I kind of want to move to the Russian server then. Sure beats NA sniping simulator

[GhostSwordsman]

What I'm suggesting I suppose would be the high tier BB are more offensive than defensive. And unless they are boosting the credits earned on the PT server, it seemed one kill and a few good hits would allow the ship to break even or very close to it. In such a manner as to make them playable. 

 

Where I'm probably wrong here is thinking there is justification on the part of the high tier BB for "camping" or staying in the rear. And that some of the justification was related to repair costs and/or torpedoes. At least in my silly mind, I don't find either of those solid reasons.

 

Of course you are correct - the PTS is not the NA server. And a lot of the players are likely driving ships above anything they've ever driven - like me, although I do have an Amagi parked in the docks. 

 

And for me - the experience with the ships is actually a good thing for me. I was so convinced how costly the ships were to operate that I made up my mind there was no point going up the rest of the BB lines. Now having more experience with them, that is no longer a concern for me. I may actually pick up the USN BB line again... 

 

... that is, after the German lines debut. 

 

One question. Did you die, or survive the battle?

 

Because in T9s, even with premium, dying is usually the difference between making a net profit or having a net loss with one kill and a few good hits.

[ckupf]

The designation of "OP" is reserved for a select few ships in game. Battleships don't fit the category unless you're talking about the Nikolai. 

 

 

The Grem and the Nikolai are the only two that are OP. Other ships are just particularly "strong" like the Saipan, Atago, Minekaze, Fuso, Shchors, Moskva, and a couple others.

[Jiggiwatt]

I would love to see more pushing from BB's in the live server, but I'm not sure how that's going to happen unless you drastically reduce the range of BB main batteries. If both teams are doing it and those hanging back aren't seeing their WR adversely affected, they're not going to see the incentive to push. If no one else on your team is pushing, you're just cannon fodder. In those rare occurrences where a team supports the push though, it's a beautiful thing.

[Show_Me_Your_Cits]

What I'm suggesting I suppose would be the high tier BB are more offensive than defensive. And unless they are boosting the credits earned on the PT server, it seemed one kill and a few good hits would allow the ship to break even or very close to it. In such a manner as to make them playable. 

 

Where I'm probably wrong here is thinking there is justification on the part of the high tier BB for "camping" or staying in the rear. And that some of the justification was related to repair costs and/or torpedoes. At least in my silly mind, I don't find either of those solid reasons.

 

Of course you are correct - the PTS is not the NA server. And a lot of the players are likely driving ships above anything they've ever driven - like me, although I do have an Amagi parked in the docks. 

 

And for me - the experience with the ships is actually a good thing for me. I was so convinced how costly the ships were to operate that I made up my mind there was no point going up the rest of the BB lines. Now having more experience with them, that is no longer a concern for me. I may actually pick up the USN BB line again... 

 

... that is, after the German lines debut. 

 

We can't be offensive because we get burnt to a crisp if we try. I don't care about repair costs at all, what I do care about is being set on fire in four places, putting them out, then immediately being set on fire in four places again by an invisible Zao chilling at 16km, the Des Moines chilling behind the island 10km away, the Moskva wiggling at 20km, and the Khab and Gearing darting about at 10-12ish. Then, when we realize out team didn't come with us, we decide to try and turn around because you'll just eat a face full of torpedus if you crawl backwards, and get citblasted by a Yamato you didn't see at 18km away in the middle of your turn. 

 

"But Cits, you can delete all of those cruisers with the click of a mouse! Git gud!"

You tried hitting a cruiser that has half a brain outside of 12-15km? In just the right spot? Every time? RNGesus makes it impossible. You can have a perfect salvo that disperses into the superstructure and the cruiser laughs it off. Or smacks the water. Or you misjudged your lead. Then you get to burn again! Yay! 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love high tiers, but everything about the ships you face is so powerful and the players are so good that one mistake is going to send you back to port, and quickly. 

 

I would LOVE to play more aggressively with my BB's at T10, but as of right now you can only do that in a division... And you're still probably gonna die if you get your timing wrong. 

 

[Herr_Reitz]

 

One question. Did you die, or survive the battle?

 

Because in T9s, even with premium, dying is usually the difference between making a net profit or having a net loss with one kill and a few good hits.

 

A couple times lived, a coupled died, but overall positive cash flow. Maybe they are using different cost rates on the PTS? 

 

We can't be offensive because we get burnt to a crisp if we try. I don't care about repair costs at all, what I do care about is being set on fire in four places, putting them out, then immediately being set on fire in four places again by an invisible Zao chilling at 16km, the Des Moines chilling behind the island 10km away, the Moskva wiggling at 20km, and the Khab and Gearing darting about at 10-12ish. Then, when we realize out team didn't come with us, we decide to try and turn around because you'll just eat a face full of torpedus if you crawl backwards, and get citblasted by a Yamato you didn't see at 18km away in the middle of your turn. 

 

"But Cits, you can delete all of those cruisers with the click of a mouse! Git gud!"

You tried hitting a cruiser that has half a brain outside of 12-15km? In just the right spot? Every time? RNGesus makes it impossible. You can have a perfect salvo that disperses into the superstructure and the cruiser laughs it off. Or smacks the water. Or you misjudged your lead. Then you get to burn again! Yay! 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love high tiers, but everything about the ships you face is so powerful and the players are so good that one mistake is going to send you back to port, and quickly. 

 

I would LOVE to play more aggressively with my BB's at T10, but as of right now you can only do that in a division... And you're still probably gonna die if you get your timing wrong. 

 

 

Well then their remains at least one good question to ask:

 

How do we encourage high tier BB players to play aggressively in random battles? 

 

Since I play Fletcher & Fubuki these days, what do you - and other high tier BB players - want of those two DDs? We got maxed out red commanders with what, 5.4km detection. We got cruisers with radar and hydro. They get some speed boost using the appropriate flag and then there are the accursed aircraft. Spotters from ships. Fighters from ships. And of course, carrier birds and worse yet your own carrier driver follows you wherever you go with DB/TB which of course draws enemy fighters. I'm sure there's other things I'm missing but it is clear we both have issues with the red team. :-) 

 

How can we change the behavior so the games at high tier are more exciting, more action? Do we count on WG continually modifying the environment and parameters of ships, maps and such? 

 

I would really like to see the excitement at the higher tiers get turned up a few notches - so how can we do it? 

[Dolomaticus]

My problem is that IF the BB is not supported on a push, it gets taken out hard and fast. Usually since I play USN BB's a lot, you have to push and try to dictate the action. Being out ranged usually does not get me killed, being hung out to dry by the CA and DD's I thought was on my flank during a fight and they bug out.

[Show_Me_Your_Cits]

 

A couple times lived, a coupled died, but overall positive cash flow. Maybe they are using different cost rates on the PTS? 

 

Well then their remains at least one good question to ask:

 

How do we encourage high tier BB players to play aggressively in random battles? 

 

Since I play Fletcher & Fubuki these days, what do you - and other high tier BB players - want of those two DDs? We got maxed out red commanders with what, 5.4km detection. We got cruisers with radar and hydro. They get some speed boost using the appropriate flag and then there are the accursed aircraft. Spotters from ships. Fighters from ships. And of course, carrier birds and worse yet your own carrier driver follows you wherever you go with DB/TB which of course draws enemy fighters. I'm sure there's other things I'm missing but it is clear we both have issues with the red team. :-) 

 

How can we change the behavior so the games at high tier are more exciting, more action? Do we count on WG continually modifying the environment and parameters of ships, maps and such? 

 

I would really like to see the excitement at the higher tiers get turned up a few notches - so how can we do it? 

 

If you're in a DD, I want you out front. Swat the DDs headed my way, and dump torps at the cruisers to make them turn. Fire on the cruisers to keep the flamethrowers off of me, but don't get too close that you get wrecked. Play my midfield for me, clear my path, and I'm coming hot on your tail to wreck some reds. I need another BB with me so that I'm not the only thing to shoot at, and I need cruisers to divide incoming fire too and swat down planes. All of this requires coordination and willingness to work as a team... which doesn't exist for the most part.

 

The biggest buff to BBs would be to make it less punishing to advance. Why should I push when I'm just gonna take 60-80k fire damage from cruisers (not counting HE alpha itself... which is perfectly fine.)? I gotta wait till later in the game before I can even think of pushing.

[BrainzO_O]

However that's PT server, people don't need to worry about repair fees and stats...

On other servers, if you are aggressive in your BB, you'll take fire from the entire enemy team and get sunk quickly, which won't give you the chance to make enough damage... Camping is not fun, but it's better than getting killed in the first few minutes... That's why I play DDs only at high tiers, don't need to camp with team...

[Herr_Reitz]

 

If you're in a DD, I want you out front. Swat the DDs headed my way, and dump torps at the cruisers to make them turn. Fire on the cruisers to keep the flamethrowers off of me, but don't get too close that you get wrecked. Play my midfield for me, clear my path, and I'm coming hot on your tail to wreck some reds. I need another BB with me so that I'm not the only thing to shoot at, and I need cruisers to divide incoming fire too and swat down planes. All of this requires coordination and willingness to work as a team... which doesn't exist for the most part.

 

The biggest buff to BBs would be to make it less punishing to advance. Why should I push when I'm just gonna take 60-80k fire damage from cruisers (not counting HE alpha itself... which is perfectly fine.)? I gotta wait till later in the game before I can even think of pushing.

 

That's good stuff and I agree - a coordinated team effort. In random battles though, how do we encourage that behavior, or rather, how can WG encourage it? The reduced costs in July - is that helping anything?