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SandraSmiles

Impossible to test VMF DDs in Coop

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I've read that the coop AI sees DDs first and shifts priority to deleting them.

I can say this is true. I'm not able to test the Gnevny nor the Ognevoi w/o getting multiple steering crapped and engine crapped out.

 

I love the coop AI, don't get me wrong, but if I wanna test a DD...everyone say go to coop.

Nope.  Going aggressive or even semi-progressive and Im deleted 3 minutes into the match.

Not good.  Oh wait....money spent means not good.

If I wanna test a VMF DD in random...odds are the team is already down one boat.

You either play passive potato or get aggressive (lucky)

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Use the training room mod: http://wows-modcom.de/2016/05/28/trainingraum/

 

I use this to test any ship.

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I've read that the coop AI sees DDs first and shifts priority to deleting them.

I can say this is true. I'm not able to test the Gnevny nor the Ognevoi w/o getting multiple steering crapped and engine crapped out.

 

I love the coop AI, don't get me wrong, but if I wanna test a DD...everyone say go to coop.

Nope.  Going aggressive or even semi-progressive and Im deleted 3 minutes into the match.

Not good.  Oh wait....money spent means not good.

If I wanna test a VMF DD in random...odds are the team is already down one boat.

You either play passive potato or get aggressive (lucky)

 

​Try taking an IJN DD against 6 aimbotting DD hunter bots, if you think the RU is impossible.
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You are too close. Being aggressive in a VMF dd means staying at range and using your laser beams to kill dds, citadel broadside cruisers, and annoy battleships.

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You are too close. Being aggressive in a VMF dd means staying at range and using your laser beams to kill dds, citadel broadside cruisers, and annoy battleships.

 

hahahaha....  here's me testing Sims. It was silly of me to drive where 7 bots were.

 

D6DC7oa.png

 

Here's me playing a cruiser while some other poor lad practices his IJN DD

 

5oSsUxy.png

 

I played 80 games of Tashkent in Co-op, grinding it out of stock. And you know, they all sucked.

 

 

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You are too close. Being aggressive in a VMF dd means staying at range and using your laser beams to kill dds, citadel broadside cruisers, and annoy battleships.

 

^^this

 

I bring DDs to Coop and do fairly well. I find it good practice hiding, dodging and hitting (guns/torps). They do single you out, which makes it a good practice to me. If I lose the ship early due to focus fire. so be it. It is Coop anyway.

 

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Yep, there's something very wrong with the co-op bots' AI regarding DD's. 

 

If you're in a Russian DD or a Blys, they'll target you, even if EVERY ship on your team is closer to them.  It's frustrating to play these DD's because you're constantly, CONSTANTLY being shot at.

 

If you're in a IJN DD, it seems certain that the bots know exactly where you are, even when you've never been spotted (and your SA has never gone off).  CV planes will fly directly at you even when there's no possible reason for them do fly in your direction (i.e. you're not on a line between the enemy CV and a friendly SPOTTED ship).  And enemy ships will keep turning towards your IJN DD even while you're not spotted and never have been spotted.  It can be annoying as heck playing IJN DD's because it feels like you never get any good broadside torp shots on the bots because they're constantly turning towards you.

 

About the only "defense" an IJN DD has against this behavior might be to work with another IJN DD and work together but be split up so that it a ship turns towards you, your buddy IJN DD gets some nice side shots, or vice-versa.

 

 

I've found that it's easier playing USN DD's than the other nations' DD in co-op, because if you're using very US DD specific tactics, like offensive smoke, the bots don't have any specific counter to it, and you can do pretty well.  Also, if you want to make (seemingly) suicidal runs on solo BBs, whatever normal anti-DD bot tactics exist don't do much to counter a hard charging US making a (not-so) "suicidal" torp run.

 

Anyways, just some observations.

 

 

 

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hahahaha....  here's me testing Sims. It was silly of me to drive where 7 bots were.

 

D6DC7oa.png

 

Here's me playing a cruiser while some other poor lad practices his IJN DD

 

5oSsUxy.png

 

I played 80 games of Tashkent in Co-op, grinding it out of stock. And you know, they all sucked.

 

 

 

That's pretty crazy.  I've honestly never played coop in a dd, but I think your images show that dds working alone get targeted.  What happens when you run back to your (nearby) friendly fleet?  Based on my experience in other ships I imagine the bots would lemming into the teeth of your team.  

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You are too close. Being aggressive in a VMF dd means staying at range and using your laser beams to kill dds, citadel broadside cruisers, and annoy battleships.

 

That doesn't really change things.  The bots will still ignore closer team mates to focus all their attention on you.  About the only way to stop this is to use offensive smoke or shoot from behind islands so that you disappear from their sight and attention.

 

 

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hahahaha....  here's me testing Sims. It was silly of me to drive where 7 bots were.

 

D6DC7oa.png

 

Here's me playing a cruiser while some other poor lad practices his IJN DD

 

5oSsUxy.png

 

I played 80 games of Tashkent in Co-op, grinding it out of stock. And you know, they all sucked.

 

 

 

That's pretty crazy.  I've honestly never played coop in a dd, but I think your images show that dds working alone get targeted.  What happens when you run back to your (nearby) friendly fleet?  Based on my experience in other ships I imagine the bots would lemming into the teeth of your team.  

 

 

It's not so much about DD's working alone.  It's about the fact that the bots are very single-minded when it comes to chasing down DD's.  Once they get a DD in their sights, their "teeth", they won't stop chasing that DD until the DD disappears (smoke, concealment, island, whatever), the bots are all killed by the rest of your team getting all those lovely free shots at the bots as they chase the DD, or the DD is sunk.

 

 

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You are too close. Being aggressive in a VMF dd means staying at range and using your laser beams to kill dds, citadel broadside cruisers, and annoy battleships.

 

 

^^this

 

I bring DDs to Coop and do fairly well. I find it good practice hiding, dodging and hitting (guns/torps). They do single you out, which makes it a good practice to me. If I lose the ship early due to focus fire. so be it. It is Coop anyway.

 

 

 

That's pretty crazy.  I've honestly never played coop in a dd, but I think your images show that dds working alone get targeted.  What happens when you run back to your (nearby) friendly fleet?  Based on my experience in other ships I imagine the bots would lemming into the teeth of your team.  

Confirmed.  AI drop whatever they are doing to go after the human DD...not the occasional AI DD that people get sometimes.

 

The Ognevoi has a 12km gun range and 7.5km concealment.  Not using AFT skill, its a matter of milliseconds before you're detected and fire from the skies in every direction find your steering and engine room.

Just now got out of random, where I thought I was a lousy player...

I finished smack dabb middle of the road-

 shot-16.06.27_18.29.44-0660_zps70wnpsga.

 

 

 

Edited by OnTheHouse

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You can exploit bot using ambush tactic, this strategy sucks against human but you can farm damage/xp in co-op.

 

In co-op, bots will always chase dd. All you need to do is hiding behind a rock and the bots can't resist the urge to turn around the rock to shoot you. You just launch torps at point blank and watch them die one by one as long as you get used to their turning speed(they always slow down and turn towards the island).

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You can exploit bot using ambush tactic, this strategy sucks against human but you can farm damage/xp in co-op.

 

In co-op, bots will always chase dd. All you need to do is hiding behind a rock and the bots can't resist the urge to turn around the rock to shoot you. You just launch torps at point blank and watch them die one by one as long as you get used to their turning speed(they always slow down and turn towards the island).

 

Sounds Good Thanks.

Ambush isn't my first approach to anything.  More of a hard charger and my low scores show it

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The Gnevny is probably the first shock of the, "Hey..  I've got to learn this thing".

It's unlike any other DD, including the earlier ones in the VMF line.

Don't bother watching the "Seven kills !!!  Hooray for me !!" videos, since they don't tell you what buttons to press or how many sucky missions they were easily erased before getting to that one.

You've got to 1) learn to survive.  Go into co-op without any notion of killing things.  Just use your detection range and just try to steal caps and spot for your allies.

See if you can survive 3 straight games.  There's no pressure to accomplish anything - it's just Co-Op, and you are a DD that would get clobbered by a lucky torpedo or BB salvo anyway.  Just spot the bots for your allies.

On one mission I scored 5 caps without firing a shot (actually recaptured the same one 3 times - stupid bots).  I was the top player.  Hmmmmm..

..

Do I smell a contest here?  Top player on team without using any ammo?

..

But I digress.  After you learn to survive, 2) try your hand at using islands to sneak up on larger ships to get inside that tiny torp window.  Sucks to be on an ocean map, but that's the map I scored 5 caps on.  Trust me..  You don't want to fire your guns on an Ocean map.  Terrible, terrible things will happen if you don't have smoke, and sometimes the smoke is not quick enough.

Always plan an escape route.  If you don't have one...  there's always the next mission.

3) Never attack if your smoke or repair is on cool-down.  Wait till it's ready before you move.

4) Always have 'Last Stand' on your commander skills.  That will at least allow you to lay smoke WHEN your engine and rudder get knocked out.

'Superintendent' is also a priority skill.

AFT is good for extending the guns but some prefer DE.  Myself, I prefer AFT so I can fire off two salvoes then dance like a saloon fool after every enemy ship on the map returns fire.

Detection range kicks in, then you wait a few moments for the enemy turrets to turn away and then distract them again with a salvo.  I also do this with an Atlanta at 16km range to help out my team.  I'm not hitting anything, but I'm giving them a juicy new target for 15 seconds.  It gives my team a chance to either escape, or pop a few citadels while the enemy is distracted.


 

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I wouldn't play DD's at all in Co-op anymore.

The AI knows exactly where you are at all times, and prioritizes you from the beginning of the match. If there is a carrier in game, you can watch the bombers make a bee line to you,  even though you haven't been sighted yet.

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You can exploit bot using ambush tactic, this strategy sucks against human but you can farm damage/xp in co-op.

 

In co-op, bots will always chase dd. All you need to do is hiding behind a rock and the bots can't resist the urge to turn around the rock to shoot you. You just launch torps at point blank and watch them die one by one as long as you get used to their turning speed(they always slow down and turn towards the island).

 

True.

 

Also if they broke through your lines and are capping your only base, and your team is losing, go in closer in a DD, show yourself on purpose, and see them leave the cap and start chasing you. Just have to learn how to exploit their stupidity.

 

Edited by alexf24

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The Gnevny is probably the first shock of the, "Hey..  I've got to learn this thing".

It's unlike any other DD, including the earlier ones in the VMF line.

Don't bother watching the "Seven kills !!!  Hooray for me !!" videos, since they don't tell you what buttons to press or how many sucky missions they were easily erased before getting to that one.

You've got to 1) learn to survive.  Go into co-op without any notion of killing things.  Just use your detection range and just try to steal caps and spot for your allies.

See if you can survive 3 straight games.  There's no pressure to accomplish anything - it's just Co-Op, and you are a DD that would get clobbered by a lucky torpedo or BB salvo anyway.  Just spot the bots for your allies.

On one mission I scored 5 caps without firing a shot (actually recaptured the same one 3 times - stupid bots).  I was the top player.  Hmmmmm..

..

Do I smell a contest here?  Top player on team without using any ammo?

..

But I digress.  After you learn to survive, 2) try your hand at using islands to sneak up on larger ships to get inside that tiny torp window.  Sucks to be on an ocean map, but that's the map I scored 5 caps on.  Trust me..  You don't want to fire your guns on an Ocean map.  Terrible, terrible things will happen if you don't have smoke, and sometimes the smoke is not quick enough.

Always plan an escape route.  If you don't have one...  there's always the next mission.

3) Never attack if your smoke or repair is on cool-down.  Wait till it's ready before you move.

4) Always have 'Last Stand' on your commander skills.  That will at least allow you to lay smoke WHEN your engine and rudder get knocked out.

'Superintendent' is also a priority skill.

AFT is good for extending the guns but some prefer DE.  Myself, I prefer AFT so I can fire off two salvoes then dance like a saloon fool after every enemy ship on the map returns fire.

Detection range kicks in, then you wait a few moments for the enemy turrets to turn away and then distract them again with a salvo.  I also do this with an Atlanta at 16km range to help out my team.  I'm not hitting anything, but I'm giving them a juicy new target for 15 seconds.  It gives my team a chance to either escape, or pop a few citadels while the enemy is distracted.

 

 

 

I wouldn't play DD's at all in Co-op anymore.

The AI knows exactly where you are at all times, and prioritizes you from the beginning of the match. If there is a carrier in game, you can watch the bombers make a bee line to you,  even though you haven't been sighted yet.

 

 

True.

 

Also if they broke through your lines and are capping your only base, and your team is losing, go in closer in a DD, show yourself on purpose, and see them leave the cap and start chasing you. Just have to learn how to exploit their stupidity.

 

 

AVR nailed it.  I adopted more stealth and less charge.  Although, w/the Strait...I found a combo of rush, smoke, rush worked ...

 shot-16.06.27_21.16.25-0898_zpsrvscmj65.

 

 shot-16.06.27_20.22.59-0190_zpsm2y4qedv.

 

 shot-16.06.27_16.55.02-0871_zpsy3zhymcy.

 

 shot-16.06.25_16.08.09-0405_zps0fe6qmsc.

 

 

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True.

 

Also if they broke through your lines and are capping your only base, and your team is losing, go in closer in a DD, show yourself on purpose, and see them leave the cap and start chasing you. Just have to learn how to exploit their stupidity.

 

 

Yep. But it would be better and more interesting if they weren't stupid like that. 

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What you can do is give your team some DDs but not enable their guns. Follow them in and practice shooting.

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I usually take the Tachibana into Co-op for practice and do a crappy job.

Accidentally hit Random - can you say Unicum?

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