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Joshee902243

Kongo class battlecruiser a bit too OP

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     I hope all of you know the difference between a battlecruiser and a battleship because you will be hearing these words a lot.  The Kongo in world of warships is a good ship, but is completely superior to the New York, a true battleship, some of these reasons are okay, like gun range, as the Kongos were modernized for this but having a bigger HP pool is completely insane, the New York should be able to sink a Kongo with ease, even have taken a few hits you aren't going to polish out because battlecruisers just aren't made to fight battleships, it's just the way it works...  The big reason everyone stopped making them was because they couldn't take hits from the big guns of BBs or other BCs as was shown in the battle of Jutland as the German battle line slaughtered the British battlecruiser squadron and of HP differences, 5,000 HP difference with the BC ahead of the BB, that is ridiculous plus the New York's dispersion sucks compared to the Kongo, and the NO. 3 turret has arks that aren't useful.  Wargaming PLEASE nerf the Kongo into a BB that can react to cap , CV under attack ect. but cant 1 V 1 a true BB.

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The Kongos actually caused a lot of grief for the USN.  That was actually why the Iowas were built, specifically to kill those 1913 battlecruisers.  The US had nothing that could force them to fight AND defeat them outside of carriers which required good weather and daylight.

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They balance the game for playability, not historicity. 

 

^ It is an arcade game not a simulator. And the NY can do just fine, as well as the Texas. They are different styles of play which is what the game needs.
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Kongo smashed by NYs as long as the driver knows what he does. Is it a surprise that I had my best game (only speaking of damage) in a NY even though I have much better ships like the Nagato?

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They are amazing ... really strong in a hand of a good shooter ... one of the best sealclubbing ships ....but not OP . 

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You just need to learn how to fight them better rather than complain

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If I bought the New York, I can guarantee you I could kill a run-of-the-mill Kongo Captain.

 

Not to sound arrogant, but I know what I'm doing and I know plenty of ways how to kill other Captains in usually superior ships.

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     I hope all of you know the difference between a battlecruiser and a battleship because you will be hearing these words a lot.  The Kongo in world of warships is a good ship, but is completely superior to the New York, a true battleship, some of these reasons are okay, like gun range, as the Kongos were modernized for this but having a bigger HP pool is completely insane, the New York should be able to sink a Kongo with ease, even have taken a few hits you aren't going to polish out because battlecruisers just aren't made to fight battleships, it's just the way it works...  The big reason everyone stopped making them was because they couldn't take hits from the big guns of BBs or other BCs as was shown in the battle of Jutland as the German battle line slaughtered the British battlecruiser squadron and of HP differences, 5,000 HP difference with the BC ahead of the BB, that is ridiculous plus the New York's dispersion sucks compared to the Kongo, and the NO. 3 turret has arks that aren't useful.  Wargaming PLEASE nerf the Kongo into a BB that can react to cap , CV under attack ect. but cant 1 V 1 a true BB.

 

You are suffering from a limited view on what a battlecruiser.  The [edited]'s you describe as not being able to take hits from a BB's big guns are British model battlecruisers, which are NOT the same as German battlecruisers.

 

RN BC's were designed under the philosophy that speed was armor, and as a consequence were fairly fast but lightly armor (having armor roughly similar to a heavy cruiser of the time, IIRC).  OTOH, SMS BC's were designed to effectively be downscaled battleships, with slightly less armor and slightly smaller guns, but with a bit more speed.  And as a consequence, SMS BC's weren't as fast or heavily armed as British BC's, but they were a LOT more survivable.

 

Also, IIRC, the fact that 3 RN BC's blew up at Jutland had less to do with their weak armor than it did to do with issues surrounding ammunition storage and handling procedures, magazines, the volatility of their shells/propellant, and so on.  On the flip side, the German BC Seydlitz was famous for having taken 21 major caliber hits and a torpedo hit at Jutland, and yet still made it back to port.

Edited by Crucis

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Kongo smashed by NYs as long as the driver knows what he does.

 

Kongo only dies to NY if the NY can close in without being noticed. The longer ranged ship with the higher speed can dictate the engagement.

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     I hope all of you know the difference between a battlecruiser and a battleship because you will be hearing these words a lot.  The Kongo in world of warships is a good ship, but is completely superior to the New York, a true battleship, some of these reasons are okay, like gun range, as the Kongos were modernized for this but having a bigger HP pool is completely insane, the New York should be able to sink a Kongo with ease, even have taken a few hits you aren't going to polish out because battlecruisers just aren't made to fight battleships, it's just the way it works...  The big reason everyone stopped making them was because they couldn't take hits from the big guns of BBs or other BCs as was shown in the battle of Jutland as the German battle line slaughtered the British battlecruiser squadron and of HP differences, 5,000 HP difference with the BC ahead of the BB, that is ridiculous plus the New York's dispersion sucks compared to the Kongo, and the NO. 3 turret has arks that aren't useful.  Wargaming PLEASE nerf the Kongo into a BB that can react to cap , CV under attack ect. but cant 1 V 1 a true BB.

 

For the context of WoWS, CCs and BBs are both treated the same.

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Kongo was originally a Battlecruiser.  But then was modernized to a Battleship and then fast battleship:  Read away-  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Kong%C5%8D

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These ships have different purposes.

The New York is a mid-range BB that can take a hit.  The Kongo is for long range artillery.

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Angling in game really mitigates "battlecruiser" armor thickness. Like by a lot.

 

Also, HP is based off of a formula heavily based off of ship displacement.

 

Per gamemodels3d, Kongo C hull is afforded 38,767 tons.

 

New York B hull is given 32,436 tons.

 

Both tonnages reflect quite accurately to their IRL post refit displacements. Whether or not a simple formula based off of displacement is "fair" is another story.  

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Really wish people would quit crying 'nerf' every time they get spanked in game.  I drilled a Kongo this morning with Texas - took over half that hit point pool in one salvo.

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Kongo only dies to NY if the NY can close in without being noticed. The longer ranged ship with the higher speed can dictate the engagement.

 

Can confirm. NY catching a Kongou boardside at closer range is very likely going to take close to half her HP off with the first salvo if it's aimed well and a little lucky. 

 

As with most things in this game, it's all about knowing what situations your ships perform best in. NY is downright nasty closer in. 

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Kongo was originally a Battlecruiser.  But then was modernized to a Battleship and then fast battleship:  Read away-  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Kong%C5%8D

 

Just because the IJN called it a battleship didn't make it so.  It's 8-inch belt says battlecruiser.
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These ships have different purposes.

The New York is a mid-range BB that can take a hit.  The Kongo is for long range artillery.

 

Kongo's armor wont shine in medium/close distances , but its gun power can crush anything in any range .

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You can pen Kongos with cruiser AP. Just aim anywhere but the citadel (bow and stern work well, or the superstructure).

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You can pen Kongos with cruiser AP. Just aim anywhere but the citadel (bow and stern work well, or the superstructure).

 

Aoba 203mm loves kongo citadels
Edited by Hangoverhomey

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I would still put more value of a Kongo on my team than a NY.  Kongo can bring her main battery to distant points on the map with good time.  Meanwhile, Standard USN BBs are plodding along at 21kts and are being left behind.  You can't expect the team to slow down to 21kts so the fat kid can keep up.  Until the USN BBs speed up with NC, I always believe IJN BBs are more valuable to the team because of their firepower, range, and map mobility.

 

I can't tell you how many times I see dumb stuff like a USN BB "speeding" at 21 knots and can't arrive to an important fight in time.  Meanwhile, ships like Myogi, Kongo, Fuso, Nagato can zip along where you need them in good time.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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The Kongos actually caused a lot of grief for the USN.  That was actually why the Iowas were built, specifically to kill those 1913 battlecruisers.  The US had nothing that could force them to fight AND defeat them outside of carriers which required good weather and daylight.

 

The Iowa's were also built for the Nagato, an Tirpitz I think...

 

 

As the the post... Have you seen the Kongo's dispersion at 10+km, because I have. (In 4 seperate ships too {Kongo, ARP Kongo, ARP Haruna, ARP Kirishima} ).

Edited by Matthewl419

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The Iowa's were also built for the Nagato, an Tirpitz I think...

 

As the the post... Have you seen the Kongo's dispersion at 10+km, because I have. (In 4 seperate ships too {Kongo, ARP Kongo, ARP Haruna, ARP Kirishima} ).

No, they were built to counter the Yamato class (which the USN assumed mounted 9 16" guns because the Japanese falsified the designation of the main battery) in terms of firepower.  Tirpitz was always a secondary concern if any at all because the German navy was very much inferior numerically.

 

The 33-knot speed requirement was stated as a requirement for carrier escort: more specifically, so that they could take up and maintain station ahead of the CVs and screen against surface threats without hampering the flattop's ability to launch aircraft.  The primary concern of the USN when conjuring up this role was fast capital ships like the Kongos which could rip up smaller ships without problem while being fast enough to escape previous classes of USN battleships.

 

As to the OP, HP is based on displacement.  Kongo and Haruna displaced around 32000 tons each (standard) after all of their refits, while Texas and New York topped out at 27000 (discounting the fact that New York doesn't even get her final configuration in-game).  I have nothing else to say on the matter.

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