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Thoughts on USS ARIZONA as a Playable ship

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Greetings,

I wanted to bring forth something that is on my mind and I am bothered by it. Last night I encountered for the first time the USS ARIZONA (being tested). As I said I don’t come on the forum often and so I am behind the curve on this. I mentioned to those players that I was unsettled about seeing the ARIZONA as a playable ship, as well as the fact that I was going to reach out to some Pearl Harbor Organizations and ARIZONA Survivors (I have met a few when I was stationed at Pearl). I retired in 2011 as a Senior Chief (STSCS(SS) from the USN after serving 27.5 years, with over 22 years on sea duty riding attack submarines. The last 9 years was at Pearl Harbor. The players understood where I was coming from but to them it was simply another ship (or so it seemed). I filed a ticket to privately voice my displeasure and was told to post it to the forum.

So here is my issue. I don’t think that the ARIZONA should be used. Further if this ship is to be sold I think that is in poor taste. Why? The ARIZONA died 10 minutes into a sneak attack on the United States. Essentially she was murdered. It may sound overly dramatic but that is what happened. Practically every other ship used in the game that saw combat and was lost during the war and not part of the opening blow. So the question would follow about the INDIANAPOLIS. The INDIANAPOLIS, another tragic loss was sunk during the war in a high risk mission. That is very different circumstance.

Further the USS ARIZONA serves as place of internment (war grave) of those killed. So the statement would be made that so are other ships on all sides…true….However what is different is that there is a growing list of those who survived her sinking have returned to be to have their cremated remains placed on board, their names are placed on a plaque on a marble bench to the left of the larger display of those who were killed. For all intents and purposes she is a limited access cemetery.

Another way to look at this is you don’t see Aviation Sims allowing you to drop an Atomic Bomb on Hiroshima or Nagasaki, or a first person shooter recreating a mass shooting. There are no simulations of concentration camps or other atrocities committed during war or at least on a large scale such what is available here or similar.

It is true the ARIZONA is no longer in commission, but the Navy retains the title so that there will not be another shipped named as such and she is rendered honors by passing warships.

The way ahead….Wargaming Group Limited recently had a promotion for players to participate and achieve a special flag…the more that played the larger the donation to a Veterans Group. I applaud that commendable effort and felt a similar one for the ARIZONA could be set up. A portion of the cost of the ship to donated to a Veterans or Pearl Harbor/ARIZONA related charity/memorial organization. If that is not that then change the name to the USS PENNSYLVANIA.

For what it’s worth that is my viewpoint. Thanks for the opportunity to express it.a

 

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You do realize that there are a good number of ships in this game that not only were sunk, but also suffered huge loss of life when they went down?  The first one that comes to mind is almighty Yamato.

 

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A perfectly legitimate opinion to hold.

 

Expect to be vigorously attacked for it.

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First, i'd like to say thank you for you for the many years of service.:honoring:

 

Second, while I do see your point  wargaming would have to give money from every ship they sell, all premium ships are named ships and some sank with a large loss of life ( Indianapolis, Tirpitz ), I look at it like the memory of those men can and will live on and be in our mind and hearts while playing them. just one mans opinion

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A perfectly legitimate opinion to hold.

 

Expect to be vigorously attacked for it.

 

Legitimate yes.

 

Also hypersensitive.

 

 

Why is that some people will claim that anyone not agreeing with them is being "hypersensitive"?

 

 

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Legitimate yes.

 

Also hypersensitive.

 

Doesn't read that way at all. Seems well thought out and reasonable.

 

For the record, I support having Arizona as a premium.

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Greetings,

I wanted to bring forth something that is on my mind and I am bothered by it. Last night I encountered for the first time the USS ARIZONA (being tested). As I said I don’t come on the forum often and so I am behind the curve on this. I mentioned to those players that I was unsettled about seeing the ARIZONA as a playable ship, as well as the fact that I was going to reach out to some Pearl Harbor Organizations and ARIZONA Survivors (I have met a few when I was stationed at Pearl). I retired in 2011 as a Senior Chief (STSCS(SS) from the USN after serving 27.5 years, with over 22 years on sea duty riding attack submarines. The last 9 years was at Pearl Harbor. The players understood where I was coming from but to them it was simply another ship (or so it seemed). I filed a ticket to privately voice my displeasure and was told to post it to the forum.

So here is my issue. I don’t think that the ARIZONA should be used. Further if this ship is to be sold I think that is in poor taste. Why? The ARIZONA died 10 minutes into a sneak attack on the United States. Essentially she was murdered. It may sound overly dramatic but that is what happened. Practically every other ship used in the game that saw combat and was lost during the war and not part of the opening blow. So the question would follow about the INDIANAPOLIS. The INDIANAPOLIS, another tragic loss was sunk during the war in a high risk mission. That is very different circumstance.

Further the USS ARIZONA serves as place of internment (war grave) of those killed. So the statement would be made that so are other ships on all sides…true….However what is different is that there is a growing list of those who survived her sinking have returned to be to have their cremated remains placed on board, their names are placed on a plaque on a marble bench to the left of the larger display of those who were killed. For all intents and purposes she is a limited access cemetery.

Another way to look at this is you don’t see Aviation Sims allowing you to drop an Atomic Bomb on Hiroshima or Nagasaki, or a first person shooter recreating a mass shooting. There are no simulations of concentration camps or other atrocities committed during war or at least on a large scale such what is available here or similar.

It is true the ARIZONA is no longer in commission, but the Navy retains the title so that there will not be another shipped named as such and she is rendered honors by passing warships.

The way ahead….Wargaming Group Limited recently had a promotion for players to participate and achieve a special flag…the more that played the larger the donation to a Veterans Group. I applaud that commendable effort and felt a similar one for the ARIZONA could be set up. A portion of the cost of the ship to donated to a Veterans or Pearl Harbor/ARIZONA related charity/memorial organization. If that is not that then change the name to the USS PENNSYLVANIA.

For what it’s worth that is my viewpoint. Thanks for the opportunity to express it.a

 

I'm guessing you've never played the CoD Modern Warfare 2 campaign mission "no russian" then? Because boy, are you wrong....

 

Also, if you want to get technical about it...Japan had already declared war on the US before they attacked pearl harbor, as well as they had already sent word to the US stating such. The problem, is that the message was delayed, and therefore was not received in time for the attack. technically speaking, the US was already at war with Japan, they just didn't know it yet.

 

Also, as for the real life Arizona.... she is still just a ship that sunk like any other during the war...its the people and sailors that lived, worked, and died on board that are FAR FAR more important, and are the ones who should be remember way more than just a ship. The ship herself does not have a soul. She is just a piece of metal and steal. Its her CREW that gave her life. Without her crew, she'd literally be nothing. 

 

Also, if you want to get REALLY technical about it, the Arizona we see in game, technically isn't actually the Arizona we know and love. WG has given her, her planned for AA guns. The ones she never managed to get installed. So really, this is a fictional Arizona, one that survived Pearl and went on to fight in the war.

 

A perfectly legitimate opinion to hold.

 

Expect to be vigorously attacked for it.

 

This is a legit opinion, one that is laid out with some pretty valid points. I really hope people can keep it together and NOT attack him.

 

I mean hell, if I can keep cool and not attack this guy, then I'm sure others can. :)

 

Lets keep it mature people.

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The Arizona was a casualty of war during WWII, and simply one of the first. While your statement is somewhat true, it is still an over-dramatization of the sinking of the Arizona. The Shinano sank with the loss of 1400 men, much more than the Arizona

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Your First Person Shooter analogy is kind of denied with Call of Duty which replicated a terror attack at an Air Port. It was strongly voiced against as well and even had a warning before playing the mission that allowed you to skip it. Wargaming has held events to give donations to pay respect to the USS Arizona and other ships. While I don't deny that your opinion is valid, it is not universal even among those who are veterans. In the end it is just a game and it pays homage to many ships that suffered devastating losses of life. The Arizona was a tragic loss that brought us into a massive conflict, but I personally don't agree that having a 3D model of her in a game dishonors her memory at all.

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In the 1960s, I purchased a Revell model of the Arizona, and floated it in my backyard swimming pool.

Do you realize that I grew up SURROUNDED by WW2 veterans who actually lost friends and comrades in that war, and yet they thought it was cute.

...

Sir, I don't know what your agenda is, but I will have none of it.  I had a piece of plastic.  This game has an assortment of logic bits.  I am now an old man myself  and my advise to you is to GET OVER IT.

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For what it is worth, WG did in fact donate a substantial sum of money to the USS Arizona memorial rehabilitation project.  I am not suggesting that this should change anyone's views, but OP did suggest that a charity effort related to the Arizona would be worthwhile.:)

 

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The Arizona was a casualty of war during WWII, and simply one of the first. While your statement is somewhat true, it is still an over-dramatization of the sinking of the Arizona. The Shinano sank with the loss of 1400 men, much more than the Arizona

 

Or the Yamato....she had a complement of 3500 crewman.....only like 280 survived.

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Or the Yamato....she had a complement of 3500 crewman.....only like 280 survived.

 

just about every Japanese CV and BB in the game were sunk in the war

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Why is that some people will claim that anyone not agreeing with them is being "hypersensitive"?

 

 

 

People want to not include a historically important ship because of the way she sunk? By that logic, HMS Hood shouldn't be in the game. USS Arizona was sunk in wartime, the moment Japan attacked Pearl, they were at war. Saying anything less is an insult to the sailors who died aboard Arizona.

 

Let her ride again, I say. 

 

Doesn't read that way at all. Seems well thought out and reasonable.

 

For the record, I support having Arizona as a premium.

You don't have to be aggressive to by hypersensitive. 

Edited by xX_Critical_ClopOut69_Xx

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Yamato, Kirishima, Haruna, Kongo, Fuso, Yamashiro, Soryu, Taiho, Lexington, Vincennes, Indianapolis, Tirpits, Mogami, this list goes on and on and on of ships that were sunk in the war with great loss of life but still make an appearance in this game in some form of another.  I was like you, until I realized I've been sailing around in graveyards the whole time I've played.  I do believe they'll follow up with what they've done prior and give 10% of the income from the ships sold to their relevant foundations.  Good things will come from this.

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This is a war game, and everything represented in a war game had someone pass in it's presence or destruction.

 

I think letting the Arizona sail again is a very good thing. It keeps her memory alive, and her story alive.

 

 

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Or the Yamato....she had a complement of 3500 crewman.....only like 280 survived.

 

Yeah I know. Many of the ships that've sunk have lost an astounding number of brave sailors. But I just threw out the most familiar example

 

 

just about every Japanese CV and BB in the game were sunk in the war

 

Basically yeah. The IJN was completely annihilated partially because of their philosophy.

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Funny how this only becomes an issue when it's with dead Americans. Japanese, German, or British it's whatever but if it's American it's suddenly off limits...

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-sighs hard- Another thread about this topic, give it a break already.

 

 RMzk3cu.gif

 

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A perfectly legitimate opinion to hold.

 

Expect to be vigorously attacked for it.

 

The Arizona was a casualty of war during WWII, and simply one of the first. While your statement is somewhat true, it is still an over-dramatization of the sinking of the Arizona. The Shinano sank with the loss of 1400 men, much more than the Arizona.

 

It is a legitimate opinion, the Arizona is one of our nations most famous war memorials and held in the highest of esteem with many.

 

The Arizona technically was not a war casualty of WWII, it was a casualty before war was officially declared.  And while all sinking's during any war time period and loss of life is tragic, Arizona is our tragedy, not Shinano or any other nations ships.  Don't mean to sound harsh, just being realistic about it.

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Funny how this only becomes an issue when it's with dead Americans. Japanese, German, or British it's whatever but if it's American it's suddenly off limits...

 

I would assume that is due to Americans making up the largest population and a lot of said players are veterans of different branches and different generations. I agree with your statement, but it's not hard to deduce the "logic" behind it.

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OP just don't want Arizona to be sunk by JPN Carriers in the game cause he think it disrespectful :trollface:

 

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