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StephenHopkins

Is this season of ranked a mirror image of high tier play?

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I noticed early on that battleships seem to predominate the queue with destroyers being able to dominate match cap circles.  There are not a lot of cruisers and those that are there seem to be focused out a lot.  I have heard this is  what high tier is like also. Is that true?

Edited by EliasSims

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No. High tier play is characterized by lots and lots of camping.

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No. High tier play is characterized by lots and lots of camping.

 

​While I disagree, it is certainly closer than what the OP is describing. 

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I noticed early on that battleships seem to predominate the queue with destroyers being able to dominate match cap circles.  There are not a lot of cruisers and those that are there seem to be focused out a lot.  I have heard this is  what high tier is like also. Is that true?

 

There's a lot of truth to this.

 

I've played a pretty fair number of Ranked Battles since it started up again, and there are a lot of BB's in the queue most of the time.  But that was true in previous seasons as well.   What I have noticed is a significant uptick in the number of DDs being played in the tier 6-7 ranks.  I had to work my way through some tier 5-6 ranks, and the number of DDs there wasn't always all that high.  But in the 6-7's, it's not uncommon to see upwards of 7, maybe even 8, total DD's on the 2 teams combined.  And most of them are gunboat DD's, either Russian or USN.  Not all that many IJN DD's.  And not all that many cruisers, much of the time.

 

I suspect that what may be happening, whether consciously or not, is that a lot of players who might play cruisers are deciding that it's safer to play gunboat DD's like the Kiev or Blyskawika, than it is to play a cruiser that has no serious stealth and can be focused down rather quickly.  And while true that DD's are squishier than cruisers, they are usually faster and can throw up a smoke screen to escape, or just plain withdraw beyond the detection range, whereas cruisers aren't able to do this.  On top of this, it's become fairly common practice in pubs and perhaps even moreso in Ranked Battles to try to focus down the cruisers first, before the BB's, since they're usually easier to sink and it gets guns off the map more quickly.

 

I'm not sure that there's any easy answer to this.

 

 

 

 

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I noticed early on that battleships seem to predominate the queue with destroyers being able to dominate match cap circles.  There are not a lot of cruisers and those that are there seem to be focused out a lot.  I have heard this is  what high tier is like also. Is that true?

 

Funny you should mention :)

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I noticed early on that battleships seem to predominate the queue with destroyers being able to dominate match cap circles.  There are not a lot of cruisers and those that are there seem to be focused out a lot.  I have heard this is  what high tier is like also. Is that true?

 

You do not see many cruisers because at that tier, with the small team size, cruisers are easily destroyed for the most part. However, a cruiser that can stay alive long into the match becomes more and more useful.

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There's a lot of truth to this.

 

I've played a pretty fair number of Ranked Battles since it started up again, and there are a lot of BB's in the queue most of the time.  But that was true in previous seasons as well.   What I have noticed is a significant uptick in the number of DDs being played in the tier 6-7 ranks.  I had to work my way through some tier 5-6 ranks, and the number of DDs there wasn't always all that high.  But in the 6-7's, it's not uncommon to see upwards of 7, maybe even 8, total DD's on the 2 teams combined.  And most of them are gunboat DD's, either Russian or USN.  Not all that many IJN DD's.  And not all that many cruisers, much of the time.

 

I suspect that what may be happening, whether consciously or not, is that a lot of players who might play cruisers are deciding that it's safer to play gunboat DD's like the Kiev or Blyskawika, than it is to play a cruiser that has no serious stealth and can be focused down rather quickly.  And while true that DD's are squishier than cruisers, they are usually faster and can throw up a smoke screen to escape, or just plain withdraw beyond the detection range, whereas cruisers aren't able to do this.  On top of this, it's become fairly common practice in pubs and perhaps even moreso in Ranked Battles to try to focus down the cruisers first, before the BB's, since they're usually easier to sink and it gets guns off the map more quickly.

 

I'm not sure that there's any easy answer to this.

 

 

 

 

 

Just wait... I'm tehory craftun' the best cruisers for T5/6/7 ranked.

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Candidates

IJN: Furutaka, Aoba, Myoko

USN: Omaha, Marblehead, Cleveland, Pensacola, Atlanta, Indianapolis

KM: Konigsberg, Nurnberg, Yorck

VMF: Murmunsk, Kirov, Buddy, Molotov, Schors

 

I struck out the ones that I wouldn't even question of bringing, because they are either redundant, with a better variant, or don't have the necessary survivability in concealment and armor.

 

T5/6 bracket (numbers might be a bit off)

I threw Warspite in there for lols
 

Ship Armor

Concealment, (CE + camo)

HP Maneuverability
Warspite 25mm-330mm 13.8km (11.5km) 53,800 550m, 14.2s
Aoba 13mm-76mm 12.1km (10.3km) 30,500 710m, 8.4s
Nurnberg 13mm-50mm* 12.6km (10.7km) 27,000 720m, 10.6s
Cleveland 16mm-127mm 13.3km (11.3km) 35,200 660m, 9.3s
Molotov 13mm-70mm 12.7km (10.8km) 28,400 860m, 7.8s
Buddy 13mm-140mm 13.1km (11.1km) 30,800 710m, 12.1s

* has turtleback, making it slightly tankier than on paper

So, best cruiser you can bring in T5/6 bracket, turns out to be Warspite. Either that, or NM with 11.9km concealment build, firing nothing but HE.

Aside from those two, Cleveland is clearly the best for clearing out caps, as it is the toughest and has good guns inside of brawling range.

Between the other cruisers, it looks to be a wash.

 

T7 bracket

DDs are in there for comparison

Ship Armor Concealment (CE + camo) HP (SE) Maneuverability
Atlanta 13mm-89mm 11.1km (9.4km) 27,500 610m, 8.4s
Indianapolis 16mm-146mm 13.4km (11.4km) 32,500 620m, 9.1s
Myoko 16mm-102mm 13.1km (11.1km) 39,200 780m, 9.3s
Yorck 16mm-80mm* 13.9km (11.8km) 32,600 650m, 11.3s
Shchors 16mm-75mm 13.3km (11.3km) 32,200 900m, 12.4s
Blyska 10mm-16mm 7.5km (6.5km) 15,500 (18,300) 610m, 5.1s
Kiev 16mm-19mm 9.0km (7.8km) 12,800 (15,600) 690m, 6.9s
Sims 6mm-16mm 7.3km (6.3km) 13,800 (16,600) 500m, 2.7s

* has turtleback, making it slightly tankier than on paper

 

Schors and Yorck are too sluggish in their rudder.

Atlanta has too low of an HP pool

Indianapolis, while quite tough, also lacks HP.

Myoko wins, but it's not exactly suitable for pushing DDs off of cap circles in ranked

Then we take a look at what the DDs offer...

Kiev would quite literally be a cruiser without a citadel, but would unlikely be able to contest caps against a Sims or Mahan.

Blyska is more of a utility ship, able to cap circles and contest them, although not excelling in either.

Anshan would be somewhere between Blyska and Kiev. The only downside is SE only giving 2400HP boost, where as the T7 DDs get 2800HP boosts.

Sims (and Mahan) would be the ships that excel in cap control.

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There's a lot of truth to this.

 

I've played a pretty fair number of Ranked Battles since it started up again, and there are a lot of BB's in the queue most of the time.  But that was true in previous seasons as well.   What I have noticed is a significant uptick in the number of DDs being played in the tier 6-7 ranks.  I had to work my way through some tier 5-6 ranks, and the number of DDs there wasn't always all that high.  But in the 6-7's, it's not uncommon to see upwards of 7, maybe even 8, total DD's on the 2 teams combined.  And most of them are gunboat DD's, either Russian or USN.  Not all that many IJN DD's.  And not all that many cruisers, much of the time.

 

I suspect that what may be happening, whether consciously or not, is that a lot of players who might play cruisers are deciding that it's safer to play gunboat DD's like the Kiev or Blyskawika, than it is to play a cruiser that has no serious stealth and can be focused down rather quickly.  And while true that DD's are squishier than cruisers, they are usually faster and can throw up a smoke screen to escape, or just plain withdraw beyond the detection range, whereas cruisers aren't able to do this.  On top of this, it's become fairly common practice in pubs and perhaps even moreso in Ranked Battles to try to focus down the cruisers first, before the BB's, since they're usually easier to sink and it gets guns off the map more quickly.

 

I'm not sure that there's any easy answer to this.

 

 

 

 

 

it's simply because ranked is all about cap control

gun dd are the best cappers

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The T5-7 cruisers are bad match-ups against the DDs and BBs of the same tier. The Russian cruisers lack burst damage and have attrocious survivability and armor and turn like trucks. German cruisers are way too brittle. IJN cruisers at that tier are only moderately well protected have slow guns and are sluggish.

 

The Molotov and Indy don't do well at all. When I see them they are hiding or getting citadeled continuously.

 

IJN cruisers are just the best of a bad situation. That's why there's so many BB players in the queue -- selfishness letting someone else carry them while farm damage.

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Smaller teams mean player mistakes are magnified greatly. Cruisers and Destroyers are the most important ships in Ranked for their actual usefulness. Of course both are extremely vulnerable to enemy fire and with the lack of a bunch of meat shields you screw up and you pay for it.

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Once you get to rank 15 you start to see that huge amount of bbs dwindle. I had contributed to that bb queue below rank 15 (T5-6) because I like using warspite for ranked, because its a great ship for it. Above it, before I would have used tirpitz, but this time around, I've switched to a destroyer in order to have more control over the battlefield.

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The T5-7 cruisers are bad match-ups against the DDs and BBs of the same tier. The Russian cruisers lack burst damage and have attrocious survivability and armor and turn like trucks. German cruisers are way too brittle. IJN cruisers at that tier are only moderately well protected have slow guns and are sluggish.

 

The Molotov and Indy don't do well at all. When I see them they are hiding or getting citadeled continuously.

 

IJN cruisers are just the best of a bad situation. That's why there's so many BB players in the queue -- selfishness letting someone else carry them while farm damage.

 

I disagree with this completely.  IMO there are so many BB players in queue because there are a lot of BB aficionados, period. 

 

As for the rest, someone has to do the heavy damage.  You don't sink 7 ships without doing a fair amount of damage as a team.  And when you end up in a late game situation and you have a good CA player up against a good BB player, I suspect that the good BB player is likely to come out on top much of the time, particularly if both ships have some damage. Why?  Because sometimes all it takes the BB is one pretty good volley to finish off some CA, while it probably takes the CA a number of pretty good volleys or some torp hits.  And only the IJN CA's have enough range to avoid having to get much too close to that BB and take the extreme risk of getting erased.  

 

 

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I noticed early on that battleships seem to predominate the queue with destroyers being able to dominate match cap circles.  There are not a lot of cruisers and those that are there seem to be focused out a lot.  I have heard this is  what high tier is like also. Is that true?

 

No a lot of ranked end up in 15 km or shorter brawls.  But cruisers, just not a good idea this time. Two times I took one out, got focused and killed quickly. 

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I wish high tier gameplay was like this, but no. The community feels V2 Warship Elite along with Scoot and Shooting Warships is a very interesting dynamic gameplay...

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I wish high tier gameplay was like this, but no. The community feels V2 Warship Elite along with Scoot and Shooting Warships is a very interesting dynamic gameplay...

 

 

Could part of the problem with pubs be that there are too many ships on each side, which could mean that there's too much firepower able to focus down individual ships too quickly?

 

I have some thoughts on some tweaks that could change the dynamics of things, though I don't guarantee that they'd work out or be for the better.  They might or might not.

 

1. Make it so that ships in smoke can only target enemy ships that THEY can see.  And they can't take targeting data from other ships.  The ship locations may show up on the mini-map for general info, but not be visible for the sake of actual targeting.   In fact, this should also hold true for firing over islands for the same reason.  If YOUR ship can't see the enemy ship, then you can't target that enemy ship

 

2.  Allow all ships to make smoke.  This could be particularly helpful for cruisers as a way to disengage from bad situations.  And with point #1 wouldn't lead to any increase in invisi-firing from smoke if you couldn't take targeting data from allies.  It'd make smoke strictly a defensive tool.

 

3. Maybe consider banning invisi-firing entirely, but simply making it that firing guns makes you visible regardless of the range.

 

4.  Radar shouldn't work thru islands.  Radar should only work on targets with which you could have a legitimate line of sight (ignoring smoke, of course).  OTOH, radar should be able to ignore the effects of cyclones.  While you may not be able to literally see an enemy ship above 6 km, your radar should be able to do so.    Also, radar's effects should only be for the ship carrying the radar.

 

5.  Consider reducing the size of pub match teams down to 7-8 ships, from the current 12, with a max of 1 CV.  As with Ranked play, this might generate more dynamic game play.

 

I realize that this is probably not exactly on topic for this thread, but your comments did get me to thinking about it, so I posted it here.

 

 

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