CV non competitive now

[Stieger]

Ever since the patch with the Buffing of AA  and whatever they did with Bombers its just a waste of time to really play them I have other screens show you the same it actually explains itself 

[gurudennis]

Good.

[Lord_Dolza]

Ever since the patch with the Buffing of AA  and whatever they did with Bombers its just a waste of time to really play them I have other screens show you the same it actually explains itself 

 

I've only really seen them in tier's 4-5..rarely in 6-7 and as common as a unicorn tier 8 and up..good thing I don't play CV's I'd be mad

[Canadatron]

Good.

Lol! I dunno how people find CV engaging. Not even like you're playing the same game.

[Skpstr]

Lol! I dunno how people find CV engaging. Not even like you're playing the same game.

 

For me, that's kind of the point. Same reason I always kept an arty in WoT, just for the odd time I wanted to play a different way.

 

But the Langley is good enough for me for that.

[Selek_7101]

Sorry OP, but I have to disagree with you.

I've been running both USN and IJN CVs from Tier IV through VIII since the patch without any more than the usual trouble.

I've even managed to kill a pair of Texas class BBs (one with my Langley, the other with my Independence). It hurt both times, but even with the new AA, the Texas isn't untouchable.

Conversely, I've been running cruisers, BBs, and DDs in the same tiers and haven't seen more planes shot down or fewer torpedoes to dodge than before the patch.

I just don't see that much different in play on either side of the flight deck.

Additionally, Personator broke down the numbers here.  Despite the fact that the risks (and the cost in planes) are higher, CVs  (despite the pain) are still eminently viable.

The AA tweak was just that- a tweak, not a nuclear detonation. Could it stand to be tweaked again (downward)?  Certainly.  

 

But it's not the end of the world as things currently stand.

Aside from venting your frustration and giving the usual gaggle of CV-haters the chance to troll, I don't see what purpose this thread serves.

[Personator]

Good.

 

Lol! I dunno how people find CV engaging. Not even like you're playing the same game.

... (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)

[YamatoA150]

Just wait until Germany's CVs come with Fritz Bombers...

[AVR_Project]

At the end of the game, I see 'VICTORY' as a sign of success.

You also had at least 10 planes left.

And unless you free-XP'd your way through a lot of stuff and/or not carried your captain forward you should be getting your 15th captain point in the middle of the Independence grind.

Things get a little more equal at that time.

 

[TurboT]

 

And unless you free-XP'd your way through a lot of stuff and/or not carried your captain forward you should be getting your 15th captain point in the middle of the Independence grind.

Things get a little more equal at that time.

 

 

15 point Captain at tier 6??   That has never happened for me.

 

I didn't get the 15 point captain until tier 8-9...

[InspGadgt]

Sorry OP, but I have to disagree with you.

 

I've been running both USN and IJN CVs from Tier IV through VIII since the patch without any more than the usual trouble.

 

I've even managed to kill a pair of Texas class BBs (one with my Langley, the other with my Independence). It hurt both times, but even with the new AA, the Texas isn't untouchable.

 

Conversely, I've been running cruisers, BBs, and DDs in the same tiers and haven't seen more planes shot down or fewer torpedoes to dodge than before the patch.

 

I just don't see that much different in play on either side of the flight deck.

 

Additionally, Personator broke down the numbers here.  Despite the fact that the risks (and the cost in planes) are higher, CVs  (despite the pain) are still eminently viable.

 

The AA tweak was just that- a tweak, not a nuclear detonation. Could it stand to be tweaked again (downward)?  Certainly.  

 

But it's not the end of the world as things currently stand.

 

Aside from venting your frustration and giving the usual gaggle of CV-haters the chance to troll, I don't see what purpose this thread serves.

 

While I agree I haven't seen that much of a change in my CV games either...the link you provide actually shows AA to be too strong, not that everything is ok.

[BlazerSparta]

When CVs were competitive, they completely dominated matches.

 

Having them non-competitive is good.

[AVR_Project]

15 point Captain at tier 6??   That has never happened for me.

 

I didn't get the 15 point captain until tier 8-9...

 

Well.....   I did.

Took full advantage of those 2x Cmdr XP events...  None going on now, but be on the lookout...   And flags, lots of flags.

[MelonFlavoredShells]

Ever since the patch with the Buffing of AA  and whatever they did with Bombers its just a waste of time to really play them I have other screens show you the same it actually explains itself 

 

I didn't realize that people still play carriers. 

[Gavroche_]

IJN CVs are still competitive.

[Selek_7101]

 

While I agree I haven't seen that much of a change in my CV games either...the link you provide actually shows AA to be too strong, not that everything is ok.

 

We must have interpreted Personator's post differently (it happens).  The key word, of course, is "viable".

 

Yes, his article demonstrates that AA is (arguably) too strong.  But it also demonstrates that the "It's the end of CVs!/CVs are useless!!/I'm quitting the game!!!" rhetoric is overwrought.  

 

You can still fight and win in CVs, even if the risks and costs are higher.  By definition, they are still "viable".

 

Yes, it's more difficult than it was, but even Personator's "the sky is falling" comment was tongue-in-cheek, a sarcastic rejoinder to the equally silly "sky cancer" complaints.

 

When CVs were competitive, they completely dominated matches.

 

Having them non-competitive is good.

 

As usual, ISSM, you have a curious definition of "competitive".

 

To the average speaker of English, "competitive" means "of, relating to, or characterized by competition" or "as good as or better than others of a comparable nature".  

 

According to your own statement, carriers were not "competitive", but "dominating".  That assertion is eminently debatable (and has been debated since the inception of the game without resolution).    

 

Of course, one might assume that your use of the word "competitive" was simply yet more word games in your never ending trolling of all things CV.

 

Indeed, if we were to echo your naked, unreasoning assertion and insist that the game is better off with any other ship type being "non-competitive", you'd be the first to point out the flaw in our reasoning, and accuse us (justifiably) of bias.

 

It is also a "strawman" argument; you impute to us motives or desires we do not possess.  No reasonable, competitive CV driver wishes their favored class to dominate the game.  That would be boring (and would cheapen our victories).

 

We do, however, insist that they be competitive- as in "as good as or comparable to other ships in their tier".  

 

We don't want victories to be handed to us by dint of what ship we drive.  

 

We simply demand that victories be obtainable through skill, effort, and superior game play.

 

And despite the complaints about the current AA buff (or conversely, the shrill, incessant, petulant whining about "sky cancer"), that demand is being met for all classes and types.

 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Just wait until Germany's CVs come with Fritz Bombers...

 

LOL!  Fascist Pig Carriers?  Wait until Soviet Stronk CVs and BBs come.

But I'm sure the German CVs will have enough Science Fiction in them to make them superior to USN and possibly IJN CVs.

[RazgrizPW]

So I did a search on top performing ship of each tier (NA / last week / solo)

 

	Imperator Nikolai I	4	BB	USSR	1,451	57.96%	45,092	996	1.2	0.0	43%
	Arkansas Beta	4	BB	USA	3,852	55.27%	39,366	870	1.1	0.0	44%
	Hosho	4	CV	Japan	4,753	54.68%	40,885	716	0.9	9.5	61%

	Fujin	5	DD	Japan	1,575	56.38%	34,078	1,240	1.1	0.0	34%
	Kamikaze R	5	DD	Japan	11,832	55.94%	32,303	1,100	1.1	0.0	33%
	Gremyashchy	5	DD	USSR	2,549	55.55%	31,874	1,307	1.1	0.3	37%
	Zuiho	5	CV	Japan	5,492	53.66%	41,142	867	0.9	8.7	61%

	Molotov	6	CA/CL	USSR	16,697	53.51%	35,918	1,299	0.9	0.7	29%
	Budyonny	6	CA/CL	USSR	13,115	53.48%	35,189	1,085	0.9	0.8	30%
	Anshan	6	DD	Pan-Asia	1,833	53.36%	24,322	1,212	0.8	0.2	28%
	Ryujo	6	CV	Japan	5,595	53.32%	37,616	992	0.7	9.2	69%

	Błyskawica	7	DD	Poland	6,458	53.64%	28,454	1,358	0.8	0.1	32%
	Shchors	7	CA/CL	USSR	6,779	53.19%	39,184	1,245	0.9	0.8	30%
	Saipan	7	CV	USA	2,626	52.97%	41,769	1,674	0.8	21.0	75%
	Hiryu	7	CV	Japan	5,078	52.38%	43,573	1,051	0.9	14.1	74%

	Shokaku	8	CV	Japan	2,822	52.55%	52,399	1,230	0.9	17.2	76%
	Atago	8	CA/CL	Japan	12,450	52.06%	37,948	1,317	0.7	1.0	36%
	Amagi	8	BB	Japan	11,807	51.57%	56,871	1,189	0.8	2.0	47%

	Taiho	9	CV	Japan	1,406	54.69%	82,181	1,562	1.4	19.7	83%
	Udaloi	9	DD	USSR	1,721	54.33%	39,804	1,576	0.9	0.6	38%
	Dmitri Donskoi	9	CA/CL	USSR	1,439	52.95%	45,975	1,382	0.8	1.8	45%

	Zao	10	CA/CL	Japan	3,119	50.85%	77,110	1,804	1.0	2.0	53%
	Moskva	10	CA/CL	USSR	1,060	50.66%	68,032	1,579	0.9	1.7	51%
	Yamato	10	BB	Japan	4,775	50.55%	85,786	1,612	0.9	2.2	46%
	Hakuryu	10	CV	Japan	584	50.51%	94,116	1,805	1.5	25.2	77%

So, except T10 (where stats is screwed heavily by division play), CVs (IJN ones...) are top performing ships (non-premium) across every single tier.  Only behind in WR in T6, 7 behind USSR CA/CL.  

 

I am not saying CVs are in great shape (esp USN ones really need help), but claiming they are not "competitive" is far from truth.  Also, CVs were definitely dominating before the nerf.  Just look at the overall stats of Midway.  Even though Midway is so bad right now, it still has a much higher average damage / ship kills than every other ship.  

 

[VTAdmiral]

So I did a search on top performing ship of each tier (NA / last week / solo)

 

	Imperator Nikolai I	4	BB	USSR	1,451	57.96%	45,092	996	1.2	0.0	43%
	Arkansas Beta	4	BB	USA	3,852	55.27%	39,366	870	1.1	0.0	44%
	Hosho	4	CV	Japan	4,753	54.68%	40,885	716	0.9	9.5	61%

	Fujin	5	DD	Japan	1,575	56.38%	34,078	1,240	1.1	0.0	34%
	Kamikaze R	5	DD	Japan	11,832	55.94%	32,303	1,100	1.1	0.0	33%
	Gremyashchy	5	DD	USSR	2,549	55.55%	31,874	1,307	1.1	0.3	37%
	Zuiho	5	CV	Japan	5,492	53.66%	41,142	867	0.9	8.7	61%

	Molotov	6	CA/CL	USSR	16,697	53.51%	35,918	1,299	0.9	0.7	29%
	Budyonny	6	CA/CL	USSR	13,115	53.48%	35,189	1,085	0.9	0.8	30%
	Anshan	6	DD	Pan-Asia	1,833	53.36%	24,322	1,212	0.8	0.2	28%
	Ryujo	6	CV	Japan	5,595	53.32%	37,616	992	0.7	9.2	69%

	Błyskawica	7	DD	Poland	6,458	53.64%	28,454	1,358	0.8	0.1	32%
	Shchors	7	CA/CL	USSR	6,779	53.19%	39,184	1,245	0.9	0.8	30%
	Saipan	7	CV	USA	2,626	52.97%	41,769	1,674	0.8	21.0	75%
	Hiryu	7	CV	Japan	5,078	52.38%	43,573	1,051	0.9	14.1	74%

	Shokaku	8	CV	Japan	2,822	52.55%	52,399	1,230	0.9	17.2	76%
	Atago	8	CA/CL	Japan	12,450	52.06%	37,948	1,317	0.7	1.0	36%
	Amagi	8	BB	Japan	11,807	51.57%	56,871	1,189	0.8	2.0	47%

	Taiho	9	CV	Japan	1,406	54.69%	82,181	1,562	1.4	19.7	83%
	Udaloi	9	DD	USSR	1,721	54.33%	39,804	1,576	0.9	0.6	38%
	Dmitri Donskoi	9	CA/CL	USSR	1,439	52.95%	45,975	1,382	0.8	1.8	45%

	Zao	10	CA/CL	Japan	3,119	50.85%	77,110	1,804	1.0	2.0	53%
	Moskva	10	CA/CL	USSR	1,060	50.66%	68,032	1,579	0.9	1.7	51%
	Yamato	10	BB	Japan	4,775	50.55%	85,786	1,612	0.9	2.2	46%
	Hakuryu	10	CV	Japan	584	50.51%	94,116	1,805	1.5	25.2	77%

So, except T10 (where stats is screwed heavily by division play), CVs (IJN ones...) are top performing ships (non-premium) across every single tier.  Only behind in WR in T6, 7 behind USSR CA/CL.  

 

I am not saying CVs are in great shape (esp USN ones really need help), but claiming they are not "competitive" is far from truth.  Also, CVs were definitely dominating before the nerf.  Just look at the overall stats of Midway.  Even though Midway is so bad right now, it still has a much higher average damage / ship kills than every other ship.  

 

 

Because only the best players in the class can still make the class work, and being excellent players, can still pull good numbers.

 

All the repeated nerfs to carriers accomplishes is pushing out average players, while keeping the experts who are capable of adjusting to these constant rapid-fire nerfs.

 

Which artificially inflates the stats. Because only super-unicum level players can do anything in them now.

[Brofisticus]

Ever since the patch with the Buffing of AA  and whatever they did with Bombers its just a waste of time to really play them I have other screens show you the same it actually explains itself 

 

I did better than that in a Bogue earlier today. The first match I've had in a Bogue in months and probably the third total. Bogue is also my highest level CV so... not a whole lot of experience with the class. Maybe reevaluate your own skills? 

[Stieger]

 issues I see r 1. T6 CV going into a match against T8 no other cv only a T6 its brutal. 2. It does well within a T6 match or even so so in a T7 match. 3 Bombers are basically useless been alot of matches where my bombers doesnt do any dmg. I have  tried hitting stern to bow bow to stern, port to starboard etc Results are always the same As big as the CV is for a target and my bombers make it they even miss them but on the return they r dead  I do use the T6 USN and T6 IJN  appreciate the good feed back as well

 

[RazgrizPW]

I don't think it is fair to say CV players are just flat out better than others.  When a ship is nerfed, better / more experienced players are more likely to give up than the rest because they have more choices.  Just look at streamers, recall how many CV streamers / youtubers you used to see and how many left.  

[Reymu]

Doing well in CV requires thinking like a sniper. I'll elaborate if asked.

 

No idea what OP's loadout was, but it looked like standard or AS. It looks more he came just to grumble, I looked at his profile and it only shows his closed beta stats. Why aren't you adapting?

 

 

[Personator]

 

Because only the best players in the class can still make the class work, and being excellent players, can still pull good numbers.

 

All the repeated nerfs to carriers accomplishes is pushing out average players, while keeping the experts who are capable of adjusting to these constant rapid-fire nerfs.

 

Which artificially inflates the stats. Because only super-unicum level players can do anything in them now.

 

Which is opposite of what WG's doing when they first time-compressed the planes on the carriers. They tried to lower the skill cap on CVs, and now they just raised it again with AA buffs... smh they can't make up their minds. 

[Grizley]

 

LOL!  Fascist Pig Carriers?  Wait until Soviet Stronk CVs and BBs come.

But I'm sure the German CVs will have enough Science Fiction in them to make them superior to USN and possibly IJN CVs.

 

Leaked picture of Russian T8 aircraft, these things are going to be murder.