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theskull251

Reasoning Behind The North Carolina AP Velocity Was?

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The North Carolina fires the same shell as Iowa, and Montana from the same guns. Yet the initial velocity is 701m/s to 762m/s of Iowa and Montana. It's only roughly 8%, but in this game 8% can make a world of difference. I for one can't hit the broadside of a barn from the inside with doors shut with it. Then typically I don't do much in the way of damage. I even see cruisers bouncing my shells while showing me a full broadside. I should also mention it also gives the North Carolina the slowest AP velocity of any USN BB, and perhaps any BB maybe the WOWS gurus can confirm. If whatever your shooting at so much as looks at their WSAD keys you miss by a country mile. 

 

Now take my Tirpitz. It has a AP velocity of 820 m/s. I can hit just about anything I am shooting at, and currently with only a handful of games play in it hitting 10% above server average for damage. 

Edited by theskull251

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The NC has 16in/45's.....the Iowa/Monty have 16in/50's.   The shorter barrels on the the NC is the reason why the AP moves at the speed of potato, and you just have to [edited]cope m8.

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NorCar has 16"/45 caliber

Iowa and Montana have 16"/50 caliber

Those 5 extra calibers (16 inches x5) increase the initial muzzle velocity of the shell itself.

 

EDIT: aaaaand sniped. Well played boogbot

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North Carolina had 16"/45 Guns while Iowa had 16"/50 Guns. Main difference being slower velocity due to the shorter barrel. The 16"/45 did have better deck penetration capability but really doesn't apply I this game

Edited by vasuba
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Can't say I'm having a huge issue with the shell velocity with mine.

Weird 0 dmg hits from as high as 5 hit salvos on near broadside enemy BBs yes but not issues with actually getting the hits.

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thats my problem with wg what SHOULD apply 2 the game doesnt  they slowed the velocity down for the ships that fired the "super heavy" shells yet the penetration still blows ............it was nothing more than an excuse to essentially nerf something n claim historical accuracy 

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I'm not having any penetration problem whatsoever with my NC, and people clearly explained the rest above. The shells hit so hard and my bow is ridiculous, I feel that every BB T7 and under cannot touch me whatsoever if I have my play (I.E not engaging several BB at once, having to dodge torps while fighting).

The velocity is not 'slowed down'. While the guns are in essence the same 16" as the Colorado, the SHS (Super Heavy Shell) means it loses some initial velocity and falls harder. Think of it like that. On the Iowa class, they fixed this by increasing the caliber from 45 to 50, which boosted the initial muzzle velocity. Now, with a 'competitive' velocity the SHS flies straighter, faster, and holds far more energy for penetration. 

So it's historical for the shells to be like that.

 

If you're having penetration problems, it means your aim is crap. Within certain distances you can aim at belt armor, past that you have to start aiming to put the shells on the deck armor. If you do it wrong, you're just going to bounce. That's the problem with the high arc. Adjust your aim and come back, as the NC's guns are citadel city for me. In 45 games, 55% WR and 70k average damage, and I'm just an average joe at the game.

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The North Carolina fires the same shell as Iowa, and Montana from the same guns. 

*snorts,laughs,giggles*

 

As others have said, a 16'' rifle on one ship may not be the same as on another.

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thats my problem with wg what SHOULD apply 2 the game doesnt  they slowed the velocity down for the ships that fired the "super heavy" shells yet the penetration still blows ............it was nothing more than an excuse to essentially nerf something n claim historical accuracy 

 

*pulls up Navweaps and takes a deep breath* 

The Iowa class firing AP from a new gun was 762 M/S. 

This matches in-game data to a T. 

As for penetration, the AP can reliably citadel a broadside Iowa from nearly any range, now I'm not 100% on how they scale ranges but the Iowa's belt was about 14.7-15" effective armor, so if we are shooting at a comfortable range of around 12-15k, which would prolly scale up to 17-20k IRL, that means...

20,000 yards (18,288 m) 20.04" (509 mm) 3.90" (99 mm) 1,740 fps (530 mps) 14.9
Range, armor penetration (Belt), penetration (deck), muzzle velocity on impact, and angle of fall, in order. 

 

That sounds and looks about right to what we see in game. 

The AP from the NC also lines up pretty well with what we see in game, 

20,000 yards (18,288 m)
17.62" (448 mm)
4.29" (109 mm)
1,604 fps (489 mps)
17.9
(same order as before)

 

hmm, sounds like they are pretty right about that historical accuracy bit to me. 

I dunno, anyone wanna weigh in and spot a mistake I prolly made somewhere?

Edited by Battleship_Wisconsin
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The North Carolina fires the same shell as Iowa, and Montana from the same guns. Yet the initial velocity is 701m/s to 762m/s of Iowa and Montana. It's only roughly 8%, but in this game 8% can make a world of difference. I for one can't hit the broadside of a barn from the inside with doors shut with it. Then typically I don't do much in the way of damage. I even see cruisers bouncing my shells while showing me a full broadside. I should also mention it also gives the North Carolina the slowest AP velocity of any USN BB, and perhaps any BB maybe the WOWS gurus can confirm. If whatever your shooting at so much as looks at their WSAD keys you miss by a country mile. 

 

Now take my Tirpitz. It has a AP velocity of 820 m/s. I can hit just about anything I am shooting at, and currently with only a handful of games play in it hitting 10% above server average for damage. 

 

 

It has a freaking heavy shell.  From the Colorado to the North Carolina, the shell weight up in weight around 1000kgs to 1200kgs.  The muzzle velocity dropped because of that.  The Iowa/Montana 16" gun is an improvement where they added more propellant powder behind the 1200kg shell to boost the muzzle velocity.

 

If you have to think about it, the Tirpitz's shell weighs around 800kg.  That's a huge difference of 500kg.  An 8" shell weighs around 120kg on average.  14" shells are only around 700kg. 

 

So the Tirpitz fights like its throwing a big rock at you.  The North Carolina on the other hand, throws you a boulder.

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It has a freaking heavy shell.  From the Colorado to the North Carolina, the shell weight up in weight around 1000kgs to 1200kgs.  The muzzle velocity dropped because of that.  The Iowa/Montana 16" gun is an improvement where they added more propellant powder behind the 1200kg shell to boost the muzzle velocity.

 

If you have to think about it, the Tirpitz's shell weighs around 800kg.  That's a huge difference of 500kg.  An 8" shell weighs around 120kg on average.  14" shells are only around 700kg. 

 

So the Tirpitz fights like its throwing a big rock at you.  The North Carolina on the other hand, throws you a boulder.

 

Here's the catch though Tirpitz does a better job of landing rounds, has more consistent damage, and hands out citadels like candy on Halloween.

 

North Carolina is a exercise in pure frustration. Past 15km don't even bother. Aim right for the water line watch all but 2 or 3 shells hit the water. Try to get plunging fire watch your shells bounce... repeatedly. All I know as soon as I get the Iowa I'm selling my North Carolina.

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North Carolina is a exercise in pure frustration. Past 15km don't even bother. Aim right for the water line watch all but 2 or 3 shells hit the water. Try to get plunging fire watch your shells bounce... repeatedly. All I know as soon as I get the Iowa I'm selling my North Carolina.

 

Are you serious? North Carolina's accuracy is insane right now. I just 4x citadeled a Fuso at ~16 km the other day.

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Yeah same here,   just had a game this past weekend with 6 citadels and 53 planes shot down.  I believe that players who got good at hitting targets in any ship with high arcs and slower shell speeds are really gonna benefit the most from the changes.  The N.C to me now feels like it has the use of the tools that it should have had from the start.  Just don't get discouraged because everything will click sooner or later in the N.C 

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The trick for longer range fire with the NC is you have to treat the guns like mortars not rifles. You have to get the lead and the range exactly right. But when you do those heavy shells will mess anything up because they are coming straight down onto the deck. Keep at it OP it's a good ship finally with this last patch.

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 Within certain distances you can aim at belt armor, past that you have to start aiming to put the shells on the deck armor. If you do it wrong, you're just going to bounce.

 This is entirely possible, its my first T8 BB & the armor layouts at this tier are quite improved over the WWI type stuff I've been mostly shooting at with the Colorado.

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North Carolina had 16"/45 Guns while Iowa had 16"/50 Guns. Main difference being slower velocity due to the shorter barrel. The 16"/45 did have better deck penetration capability but really doesn't apply I this game

 

Was more due to having a better angle for it than anything else due to the slower velocity. 

 

As for Deck-Shots, unless you are using a scouter on it you are going to bounce on anything bigger than a Cruiser. Also, good [edited]luck anything anything with those Guns at that range.

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You will be deeply disappointed by the Iowa which is direct downgrade from the NC, and in spite of having higher calliber guns will bounce just as much. 40% bounce rate is normal back when the old score screen showed you hits and pens (now removed for some reason). The superheavy AP rounds are a joke compared to the IJN counterparts in this game. Plunging citadels are possible but good luck landing them. This continues right up the Montana which completely inadequate vs the Yamato.

 

Basically, if you want to be competitive in BBs, you have to drive IJN. Sorry.

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Here's the catch though Tirpitz does a better job of landing rounds, has more consistent damage, and hands out citadels like candy on Halloween.

 

North Carolina is a exercise in pure frustration. Past 15km don't even bother. Aim right for the water line watch all but 2 or 3 shells hit the water. Try to get plunging fire watch your shells bounce... repeatedly. All I know as soon as I get the Iowa I'm selling my North Carolina.

 

Keep in mind though Tirp has rather poor performance against angled targets.

 

I 1v1d a full HP Tirp down to 1/4 in my half HP Baltimore at 5km before a DD finished him off.  How?  Good old trusty bow-on and reverse and wiggle.  Basically I was immune to any of his shells that didn't get a perfectly straight hit through the bow, since they autobounced off everything else.  I could never do that vs a NC.

 

With the latest buff, NC demands respect.  The shell velocity is poor, but the high sigma means she's very effective in close ranges.  

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Are you serious? North Carolina's accuracy is insane right now. I just 4x citadeled a Fuso at ~16 km the other day.

 

I wouldn't say its insane but it is a heck of alot better than it was, as it is now I think the NC is just fine.

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