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xPapa_Smurfx

Indianapolis epitomizes what is wrong with WG's initial decisions

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Because WG's initial decision was to replicate actual ballistics and make all aiming and firing manual, USN cruisers and BBs suck and always will suck.  WG has the correct USN softball trajectory because the USN chose lower muzzle velocities to save barrel wear and relied on superior radar directed firecontrol to make up for the lobbing shells.  It worked for the real USN, but it punishes the WOWS player who has to aim at extreme angles and loft shells that are easily seen and dodged (especially with Incoming Fire Warning).  WG hypes up the Indie as "a long range stealthy sniper."  She isn't.  She's a large DD that dies shortly after being sighted.  Basically a worse Pensacola.  Buy it for the historical value unless you really miss the pain of playing the Pensacola.

 

The real USN made a decision not to mount torpedoes on their cruisers because they felt they were not worth the danger of fire and explosions.  That was a good decision in real life, but in the game a bad one.  Why?  Because torpedo tubes don't blow up in this game and cause massive damage like they really should!  Again, WG's decision to only model half of history hurts the USN cruiser player.

 

Now if Indie had radar directed fire control and hit almost every time she pulled the trigger, then she might be worth something.  If every torpedo tube mount could blow up when hit, then the USN cruisers would benefit from their decision not to have them.

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But the Indy IS a long range sniper. Her gun arcs are fine, you just need practice and skill to make them work. She is by no means a "worse Pensacola."

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Yeah USN suffers due to missing historical facts but if they were included IJN would have a much larger problem with their cruisers

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Indy has the same shell velocity and arcs as a Myoko.  There is nothing wrong with them.  Don't believe me?  Watch this informative video.

 

Edited by thegamefilmguruman
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Now if Indie had radar directed fire control and hit almost every time she pulled the trigger....

 

Every ship has a potentially better fire control system than a radar directed one.

 

The MK 1 eyeball has a sophisticated computer backing it up that can predict course and speed changes based on experience.

 

Radar can't do any better than the aim assist mod. It only tells you where the ship will be when the shell gets there, based on present course and speed.

 

The real culprit is the accelerated mobility ships have in game. IRL, they didn't change course every 5 seconds, or reduce speed to throw off aim, so radar direction was useful.

 

If ships IRL maneuvered like that, the USN would have kept the velocity up, and said screw the barrel wear.

 

 

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still at it, I see

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I played about 7 or 8 matches and really enjoy the Indianapolis.

 

Having said that I think the OPs core argument about the problem with USN cruisers has merit.

 

Indianapolis is nice though.

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Valid premise, but the Pensacola guns are some of the least affected in the entirety of in-game USN representation. I actually really enjoyed the Pensacola, especially compared to the Cleveland. I'm just not sure I want to shell out $46 for something which is barely superior to Molotov... that's a $16 price tag for one tier of difference in earnings.

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 YFUjX1H.jpg

I think I only have five matches with the new NC too, if anyone wants to see what reasonably decent play can look like with rainbow BB shells.

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I watched a good friend climb the USN tree from the Cola up to the DM...and before he got to the DM it was basically one long slog of "can't hit anything" "this ship sucks" "oh great citadel-ed from the front."

 

Guys I know some of you like these boats, but they aren't good...the KM/IJN line is where the fun is.

 

The British might be swell...maybe even the Italians.

 

Yet at the end of the day the USN cruiser like effectively stops at the Cleveland, and even that is debatable...because those things are cake in my Warspite. 

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Valid premise, but the Pensacola guns are some of the least affected in the entirety of in-game USN representation. I actually really enjoyed the Pensacola, especially compared to the Cleveland. I'm just not sure I want to shell out $46 for something which is barely superior to Molotov... that's a $16 price tag for one tier of difference in earnings.

if you can't wreck a Molotov in Indy you are doing it wrong. Indy is better in pretty much every way.

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I watched a good friend climb the USN tree from the Cola up to the DM...and before he got to the DM it was basically one long slog of "can't hit anything" "this ship sucks" "oh great citadel-ed from the front."

 

Guys I know some of you like these boats, but they aren't good...the KM/IJN line is where the fun is.

 

The British might be swell...maybe even the Italians.

 

Yet at the end of the day the USN cruiser like effectively stops at the Cleveland, and even that is debatable...because those things are cake in my Warspite. 

 

Most are cake because they think they are OP and don't have a citadel, meaning they can go broadside right? I LOVE showing them that they do in fact, have one.
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Indy has the same shell velocity and arcs as a Myoko.

 

While fascinating, this fact is completely irrelevant to her performance. To do respectable damage Myoko has to land hits anywhere on a ship, while Indianapolis has to land it on a very specific and small part of the enemy ship, which is much more tricky if the enemy has any awareness whatsoever because the shell flight time is long enough to take evasive action except at close range or when the enemy is asleep at the helm. The reason why AP-centric ships like Molotov work is precisely because of their high shell velocity. Take that away and you have three choices to make a ship viable: a) potent HE, b) crazy high DPM, or c) good armor for close encounters of the third kind. Looking at Indianapolis it's easy to see that none of those apply.

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While fascinating, this fact is completely irrelevant to her performance. To do respectable damage Myoko has to land hits anywhere on a ship, while Indianapolis has to land it on a very specific and small part of the enemy ship, which is much more tricky if the enemy has any awareness whatsoever because the shell flight time is long enough to take evasive action except at close range or when the enemy is asleep at the helm. The reason why AP-centric ships like Molotov work is precisely because of their high shell velocity. Take that away and you have three choices to make a ship viable: a) potent HE, b) crazy high DPM, or c) good armor for close encounters of the third kind. Looking at Indianapolis it's easy to see that none of those apply.

 

practice, the arcs are fine.

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practice, the arcs are fine.

 

I worked my way up the USN CA line to Des Moines, I think my aim is fine thank you.

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practice, the arcs are fine.

 

gd doesn't need practice. I think Indy 2 needs a strong preference for glass cannon play, and from what I've seen in matches that's not really his preferred style.

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gd doesn't need practice. I think Indy 2 needs a strong preference for glass cannon play, and from what I've seen in matches that's not really his preferred style.

 

I dunno...

 

Point front towards the enemy, keep the front two turrets on target and don't show your side. Cleveland-Baltimore play exactly the same, less so cleve but still.

 

Molotov does the run away and kite thing I guess, not a fan...

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While fascinating, this fact is completely irrelevant to her performance. To do respectable damage Myoko has to land hits anywhere on a ship, while Indianapolis has to land it on a very specific and small part of the enemy ship, which is much more tricky if the enemy has any awareness whatsoever because the shell flight time is long enough to take evasive action except at close range or when the enemy is asleep at the helm. The reason why AP-centric ships like Molotov work is precisely because of their high shell velocity. Take that away and you have three choices to make a ship viable: a) potent HE, b) crazy high DPM, or c) good armor for close encounters of the third kind. Looking at Indianapolis it's easy to see that none of those apply.

If you knew what USN cruisers were like then why did you buy it??

Build a bridge and get over it ffs

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I watched a good friend climb the USN tree from the Cola up to the DM...and before he got to the DM it was basically one long slog of "can't hit anything" "this ship sucks" "oh great citadel-ed from the front."

 

Guys I know some of you like these boats, but they aren't good...the KM/IJN line is where the fun is.

 

The British might be swell...maybe even the Italians.

 

Yet at the end of the day the USN cruiser like effectively stops at the Cleveland, and even that is debatable...because those things are cake in my Warspite.

 

That's the key word right there - "fun". I mean, that's supposedly why we play these online games, right?

 

While you might find a particular ship or line fun to play, I might be bored to tears by it or think it's a warmed-over POS - and I'm certain the reverse is true.

 

That's what it comes down to - some of us just have fun and enjoy playing USN cruisers, and for some reason don't find it that difficult to do well in them - just as you find your fun times to be with the German and IJN lines.

 

Granted, they may not be the best cruisers in the game, and you may not be able to carry a game with them - but that doesn't mean you can't have fun and enjoy playing them.

 

 

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If I can reliably hit citadels with a 125kg shell at 840 m/s, then you can do it with a 118kg shell at 853 m/s(Mark 19 AP). And the HC shell is 118kg at 823, which is only a very small bit slower. USN shell arcs are not the issue, at least relative to the IJN line. As for USN vs VMF, the light VMF shell means that they only have an advantage in the close band out to about 10km, after that they start to lose a lot of velocity. Des Moines has some issues due to the slightly slower Mark 21 AP, but this is in big part due to the other lines getting upgrades at high tiers to their gun ballistics, while the USN gets weight of fire. The only line that gets an exceptional ballistic gun relative to the others is the KMS.

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gd doesn't need practice. I think Indy 2 needs a strong preference for glass cannon play, and from what I've seen in matches that's not really his preferred style.

 

You're right in that I prefer to be able to lead a push at (what I sometimes incorrectly think is) the right moment, and glass cannons can't really do it. That said, I've been enjoying the heck out of Molotov which is as well all know pure and unadulterated glass, so at least in some cases I can claim being able to adapt well. I think my main issue with Indianapolis is that I treat all cruisers as a sum of their effective DPM and effective protection, and in the case of Inidianapolis it's rather limited compared to even Molotov a tier below. The thing is, the armor is weaker than advertised and the ability to nail citadels is again lower than the stats may suggest because the target has a bit more time to react.

 

@daffy678: Yup, I suspected Indianapolis would be the way she is. Don't get me wrong, I can still play her, just can't help but feel some disappointment in what I was secretly hoping would be my second go-to tier 7 after Blys.

Edited by gurudennis

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if you can't wreck a Molotov in Indy you are doing it wrong. Indy is better in pretty much every way.

 

What's with this notion that a ship has to be competitive 1v1 against a veteran player in the ship it's being compared to? It pops up a lot, and it's a bad argument most of the time. Most random cruiser players are potatoes, and they're easy enough to dodge whether you're in Molotov or not. Their guns are not that far apart in terms of bow-on performance, and that's what matters for random battle performance.

 

Indy's armour isn't going to do anything against battleships, and Molotov is perfectly capable of bouncing cruiser AP when bow-on. I doubt I'd be able to exceed my T6 Molotov numbers by any significant margin in an Indianapolis; there just isn't enough DPM on her bow to do it.

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You're right in that I prefer to be able to lead a push at (what I sometimes incorrectly think is) the right moment, and glass cannons can't really do it. That said, I've been enjoying the heck out of Molotov which is as well all know pure and unadulterated glass, so at least in some cases I can claim being able to adapt well. I think my main issue with Indianapolis is that I treat all cruisers as a sum of their effective DPM and effective protection, and in the case of Inidianapolis it's rather limited compared to even Molotov a tier below. The thing is, the armor is weaker than advertised and the ability to nail citadels is again lower than the stats may suggest because the target has a bit more time to react.

 

That's what I figured. Might I suggest putting some time into Atlanta (IIRC, you do have one, right?) and then coming back to Indy? I haven't tried my Indy yet, but I think the two will have very similar play styles.

 

It's just a thought, but that might put you in a more surprise/ambush-oriented mood.

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