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GenSphinx

Battleship Secondaries

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When I view secondary gunners in this game even with the rank 15 captain skill I always seem to think this guy is the one manning all the secondaries.  Right now I still view Battleship secondaries as way too weak.  Lets take T8-10 ships for example, yes they have large secondary range when you get every possible buff including flags but they are still inaccurate as hell.  Secondaries still need major buffs, honestly a destroyer or even a cruiser getting too close to a BB should be shredded by secondaries.  They do still need major buffs on accuracy at the T8 and above ranks.

 

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When I view secondary gunners in this game even with the rank 15 captain skill I always seem to think this guy is the one manning all the secondaries.  Right now I still view Battleship secondaries as way too weak.  Lets take T8-10 ships for example, yes they have large secondary range when you get every possible buff including flags but they are still inaccurate as hell.  Secondaries still need major buffs, honestly a destroyer or even a cruiser getting too close to a BB should be shredded by secondaries.  They do still need major buffs on accuracy at the T8 and above ranks.

 

spaceballs1.jpg

 

Seconda​ries get decent with the T5 perk, and that's the best WG is willing to do. They did say once that they tested battleships with greater secondary ranges and accuracy, and what resulted was that DDs were basically rendered harmless. I do believe Manual Secondaries needs a rework, though- jumping from 15% dispersion reduction at T6 and below to 60% dispersion reduction at T7 and above is rather too drastic. It's like WG doesn't even want this skill to be used on mid- to low-tier ships.

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I'm kind of surprised they never seem to end up hitting my own ship.

 

I've seen a guy turn pink from his secondaries accidentally shooting a friendly.

 

Seconda​ries get decent with the T5 perk, and that's the best WG is willing to do. They did say once that they tested battleships with greater secondary ranges and accuracy, and what resulted was that DDs were basically rendered harmless. I do believe Manual Secondaries needs a rework, though- jumping from 15% dispersion reduction at T6 and below to 60% dispersion reduction at T7 and above is rather too drastic. It's like WG doesn't even want this skill to be used on mid- to low-tier ships. 

 

No talking about increasing there range even further, what i'm talking about is making their accuracy better as people get closer to BB's.  It should be suicide for a destroyer to be with in 5 or 6km to a BB, the secondaries should tear them apart.

 

Edited by GenSphinx

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If BB secondaries packed the punch of cruiser main guns (they ARE the same caliber) and were accurate I might just feel inclined to sail straight into the action knowing my secondaries are to be feared.

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I've seen a guy turn pink from his secondaries accidentally shooting a friendly.

 

No talking about increasing there range even further, what i'm talking about is making their accuracy better as people get closer to BB's.  It should be suicide for a destroyer to be with in 5 or 6km to a BB, the secondaries should tear them apart.

​If you want your killer secondaries, be prepared for torpedo soup. Since the BB skippers screamed about that, WG nerfed torpedoes. And now you people want better secondaries too?

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​If you want your killer secondaries, be prepared for torpedo soup. Since the BB skippers screamed about that, WG nerfed torpedoes. And now you people want better secondaries too?

 

Exactly. Expect other ships to get buffed was well, even CA's, if they decide to buff BB secondaries. Though I'm quite for it myself, provided the same is applied to CA secondaries.

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All secondaries should be buffed up quite a bit, the Spaceball gunner shouldn't be the piratical showman for secondary guns.  They shouldn't be that inaccurate, and honestly that's the only thing that really needs buffs.  Cruisers are fine where they are at right now (there secondaries should be buffed as well), they are already some of the most powerful ships in the game.  Right now even against other battleships I have no problem sailing up close in a cruiser for a torpedo strike cause I know there secondaries are gonna hit the ocean and not me.
Edited by GenSphinx

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Secondaries don't need to be buffed on BBs. There is no skill involved in using them, so they need to not be able to solo ships.

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If they aren't going to improve on the distance and or accuracy...then they should be given a consumable for 2nds similar to what Cruisers get for AA.

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Secondaries don't need to be buffed on BBs. There is no skill involved in using them, so they need to not be able to solo ships.

 

No ship should be able to get point blank to a battleship with out fearing the secondary armament.  Destroyers should never be able to be with in 6km of a battleship and laugh as every shot returned to it by a secondary gun misses completely.

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No ship should be able to get point blank to a battleship with out fearing the secondary armament.  Destroyers should never be able to be with in 6km of a battleship and laugh as every shot returned to it by a secondary gun misses completely.

 

I find it pretty funny when my max captain 5 skills, flags , and modules ... my overpowered Yamato 10.6km range secondaries (don't fire till 9.8km) ---fire off 300 rounds ----nets me 18 hits.
Edited by Azzura

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Guys, the basic goal in this game is that every ship type has a 50% change of winning a 1 on 1 battle with any other ship type.

 

If your secondaries shred any DD that is coming into range then this might not be true anymore.

 

This is not a naval combat simulator.

The fact that basically everything that you need to do to win in this game is the exact opposite of real world naval combat should give you a clue.

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Guys, the basic goal in this game is that every ship type has a 50% change of winning a 1 on 1 battle with any other ship type.

 

If your secondaries shred any DD that is coming into range then this might not be true anymore.

 

This is not a naval combat simulator.

The fact that basically everything that you need to do to win in this game is the exact opposite of real world naval combat should give you a clue.

 

But a DD can effectively disable a BB's secondaries with a touch of a smoke button....ok then....
Edited by Azzura

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Not quite 50%. The goal is to have every ship able to kill another, should they be forced to fight it.

 

Aka, a DD can be killed by a BB, even though by design a DD is supposed to counter BBs with their torps.

The game models this decently in most cases, as certain classes are advantages versus another, but they can all kill or be killed by other classes.

 

As much as I personally like secondaries, they do not need to be buffed, because BBs don't need to be buffed. If possible though, I would like to see secondary performance improved IF FULLY SPECCED FOR, as a well as increases in speccing for other aspects (damage control, AA, main battery etc). That way it would not me a buff, but a trade off. And meaningful choices make games fun.

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Guys, the basic goal in this game is that every ship type has a 50% change of winning a 1 on 1 battle with any other ship type.

 

If your secondaries shred any DD that is coming into range then this might not be true anymore.

 

This is not a naval combat simulator.

The fact that basically everything that you need to do to win in this game is the exact opposite of real world naval combat should give you a clue.

 

No one said 100% accuracy of anything that is in range.  What we are saying is the closer you get to a battleship the more accurate that those guns should be.  If you are with in 5km or 6km to a BB those guns should eat you for breakfast.  Right now ships even when you are completely speced into secondaries flags and a rank 15 captain they still have roughly a 10% accuracy at any range.  This is unacceptable, Battleship secondaries should be something to be feared up close.  No one said at long range they should be 100% accurate, what we are saying is as you get closer the more accurate they become.  It should be a death wish to be super close to a battleship.

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I'd say keep their accuracy the way they are.  Give them more range in other ships than IJN Tier 9-10.

I'd rather the secondaries fire and have a change of DOING something, than them having <5km range and serve no purpose whatsoever.

Some BB's don't have many secondaries to begin with, so the change wouldn't do much for them (Arkansas, New York, Texas)


 

Go with torpedo ranges (to an extent).  What's the range on tier 2 torpedoes? ~6km?  Upgraded secondaries (captain skill) @ tier 2 = 5-6km.

... stays the same for tiers 3 and 4 ...

Tier 5?  A buff here.  Aoba is 10km but too much for a BB at that tier.  Most (ok) torps go between 6-10km... at least 7km secondaries, 8 if bb take the module (hampers main gun range/dispersion since not taking these modules)

 ... stays the same for tiers 6 thru 8 ...

Tier 9-10 you have good IJN range on secondaries already, USN needs a slight buff and bam; every ship has useful secondaries.


 

If a DD isn't spotted, Secondaries don't fire on it

If a DD is hidden in smoke, Secondaries don't fire on it.

I know plenty of DD's that are good gunboats (long range guns and even hidden-fire), and others that have good concealment + good torp range.

I do not see any problem here.


 

As for cruisers, I don't see any problem here either... some CR could have upgraded secondaries too (Like the Moskva and other big ones)

Carriers?  they don't care about BB secondaries, but theirs should be upgraded as well.


 

The bottom line is that it is for WG to decide.   But if they leave accuracy as it is, I'm pretty sure this could be done without much problem.

I will continue hoping for something to be done in that regard.  Manual control is a no-no tho, I agree with people on that.

Edited by Francois424
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Ugh just came out of a battle in NC where this happened:

9NuB4Za.jpg


It also completed my Captains' 15th point so I'm tempted to put it in the Manual Secondaries but not sure if something else may be more useful?
 

Edited by hoom

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I'm kind of surprised they never seem to end up hitting my own ship.

 

Wait...just wait some time. It will eventually happen.

 

Of course they will start a fire.

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Problem is, you buff the secondaries and then you get a rage storm from all the DD lovers who lost the ability to do a point blank run on a BB. I have seen 1/3 hp DDs launch like crazy against my Kongo/Fuso/Nagato knowing that only a very lucky shot of my main armament would kill them.

 

But the main issue is that WG decided for a Arcade kind of play. Like people on the forum love to tell.

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When I view secondary gunners in this game even with the rank 15 captain skill I always seem to think this guy is the one manning all the secondaries.  Right now I still view Battleship secondaries as way too weak.  Lets take T8-10 ships for example, yes they have large secondary range when you get every possible buff including flags but they are still inaccurate as hell.  Secondaries still need major buffs, honestly a destroyer or even a cruiser getting too close to a BB should be shredded by secondaries.  They do still need major buffs on accuracy at the T8 and above ranks.

 

spaceballs1.jpg

Except that would make DDs less fun to play. Some things are meant to be "balanced" 

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Problem is, you buff the secondaries and then you get a rage storm from all the DD lovers who lost the ability to do a point blank run on a BB. I have seen 1/3 hp DDs launch like crazy against my Kongo/Fuso/Nagato knowing that only a very lucky shot of my main armament would kill them.

 

But the main issue is that WG decided for a Arcade kind of play. Like people on the forum love to tell.

I know that, and I could care less of the Kongo, Fuso, and Nagato.  What I am talking about is the T8-10 ships again.  Secondaries need to be improved, DD's should not have a blanket immunity to go point blank at less then 7km to a BB while the secondary gunners spray everything around the DD and not the DD.

 

Except that would make DDs less fun to play. Some things are meant to be "balanced" 

Right now T8-10 DD's can all stealth fire their torpedoes, no one is talking about taking that away, what we are talking about is increasing secondary armament accuracy the closer you get to the ship.  No destroyer ever should be able to get with in 6km of a battleship while it's main and secondary armament constantly box them due to there small size.  At 6km secondaries at T8-10 should be devastating.

 

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