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Kennieshooter

Torps do too much damage

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OKAY!

So, This will not be a thread about me ranting on the rather over used "TORPZ IZ OPEEZ, NURF NAOW" subject, but rather me trying to show WHY.

 

Let's start

 

The top tier JPN torp is the largest, most damaging and easiest to dodge weapon in it's tier(damage and size count for all tiers)

The torpedo's statistics are as follows:

Weight 2.7 tonnes (5952.48 lb)
Length 9 metres (29 ft 6 516 in)
Diameter 610 mm (2 ft 164 in)

Effective firing range 22,000 metres (at 48–50 knots (89–93 km/h; 55–58 mph))
Maximum firing range 40,400 metres (at 34–36 knots (63–67 km/h; 39–41 mph))
Warhead weight 490 kg (1080.27 lb)

The explosive charge is just shy of half a ton.

For those of you who do not know what a blast like that can do in real life, here is an image: 92lj3eS.jpg

 

Now for the 16in guns of the Iowa(heaviest shell ingame next to the 18in Yamato shell)

The 16in guns of the Iowa-class were formidable, they had a shell weight of 1.2t and muzzle velocity of 762m/s on the ap round.

I couldn't find an image of the hole it leaves, but it's not as devastating.

The HE round of this gun packed(under correction) a 62kg explosive to give it some boom.

Now 9 of these hitting in the same place at more or less the same time will be equal to 558kg of explosive charge, this, however, is impossible to achieve in-game and in real-life.

 

On to speeds

The Type 93 torpedo is fast, at 53kts(98.16Km/h) but the battleship shell has this countered with 726M/s (2743.2Km/h); I don't know about you, but one of these seems really hard to dodge.

The torpedo goes in a perfectly straight line(albeit with an angle due to spreads) in-game, which makes it pretty easy to dodge if you aren't mentally challenged or they were dropped extremely cleverly. The 16in shell on the other-hand, has the advantage of aiming at you and having the shells reach you faster than a large number of ships can turn.

 

Conclusion:

 

Torpedos do MASSIVE amounts of damage due to having HUGE explosive warheads, and the scaling of the damage isn't even that well done one torp does 20k damage, 2 Iowa pews do 28k damage on 2 full citadel hits, and can fire from 20+km away and hit before you've reloaded(I think) whilst the long lance is gonna travel for centuries to hit the other side of the map.

 

This is my first long post so sorry for the lack of detail.

-Kennie-

 

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You have to count in that a Type 93 CAN do 20k damage. But that is only for a ship that has no armor at all and the Torp hits at 90°. From what the game tells a Yamato for example can reduce the damage by 55% if she's angled and the thickest part got hit. Torps never do full damage I haven't seen it yet

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You have to count in that a Type 93 CAN do 20k damage. But that is only for a ship that has no armor at all and the Torp hits at 90°. From what the game tells a Yamato for example can reduce the damage by 55% if she's angled and the thickest part got hit. Torps never do full damage I haven't seen it yet

 

Ah yes, well as I said, I forgot to add some things, I apologize for the missing detail.

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The maximum DPM of Shimakaze's Long Lance torpdoes (15 torpedoes) is about 120,000 to 125,000, the DPM of one individual long lance torpedo is  around 8,000 damage.

But you have to keep in mind the weight per salvo, one entire Shimakaze salvo has the maximum potential to do 305,000 damage.

The maximum DPM of Iowa's shells is about 250,000 to 260,000 damage, the DPM of one individual shell is indeed 28,000 damage.

However, the weight per salvo is 126,000 damage.

 

Both can be countered, both by taking preventive measures. You avoid Shimakaze's maximum damage by manoeuvring in advance, you avoid Iowa's maximum by angling in advance. The point is that neither are reactive, they're both preventive measures taken to counter these things. However you cannot do both at the same time, which is where most people get annoyed.

 

You also have to realise that Shimakaze can only do this maximum damage to a few ships, namely destroyers, carriers, and both tier 8 soviet cruisers, due to torpedo defence systems reducing the damage by a flat percentage. In the case of Iowa I think this is 32% so Shimakaze's maximum damage/salvo is about 200,000 damage per salvo, against a Yamato this is 135,000 damage, Amagi is 150,000 ~ 180,000 depending on hull.

 

Similarly, regular penetrations and overpenetrations modify Iowa's damage/salvo to 42,000 and 12,600 respectively.

 

The natural balance of this would be to make regular damage 50% of maximum damage, and modify overpen damage to be a function of how much penetration you had in excess scaling down from 50% to 10% where a huge abundance of kinetic power would deal less damage. However this is a big nerf to cruisers, which in turn makes destroyers more powerful.

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The maximum DPM of Shimakaze's Long Lance torpdoes (15 torpedoes) is about 120,000 to 125,000, the DPM of one individual long lance torpedo is  around 8,000 damage.

But you have to keep in mind the weight per salvo, one entire Shimakaze salvo has the maximum potential to do 305,000 damage.

The maximum DPM of Iowa's shells is about 250,000 to 260,000 damage, the DPM of one individual shell is indeed 28,000 damage.

However, the weight per salvo is 126,000 damage.

 

Both can be countered, both by taking preventive measures. You avoid Shimakaze's maximum damage by manoeuvring in advance, you avoid Iowa's maximum by angling in advance. The point is that neither are reactive, they're both preventive measures taken to counter these things. However you cannot do both at the same time, which is where most people get annoyed.

 

You also have to realise that Shimakaze can only do this maximum damage to a few ships, namely destroyers, carriers, and both tier 8 soviet cruisers, due to torpedo defence systems reducing the damage by a flat percentage. In the case of Iowa I think this is 32% so Shimakaze's maximum damage/salvo is about 200,000 damage per salvo, against a Yamato this is 135,000 damage, Amagi is 150,000 ~ 180,000 depending on hull.

 

Similarly, regular penetrations and overpenetrations modify Iowa's damage/salvo to 42,000 and 12,600 respectively.

True as that may be, It's smart to not sail in straight lines.

:popcorn:

Put the popcorn away and get Shinji into the damn robot.

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Shinji's a wuss, I can glare at him and get him in the robot while eating my popcorn.

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Then why is he running away?

 

He's a teenager. What teenager do you know that doesn't make things difficult?

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True as that may be, It's smart to not sail in straight lines.

 

Oh yeah I definitely agree, I just was pointing out both sides of the argument and giving a reason as to why the argument of "I can't angle against torpedoes" is flawed.

But the goal of torpedoes is if not to damage targets, it is to deny areas and to trap the enemy into exposing their vulnerable areas. And this is still true.

 

For a while, early/mid in the game's "release" lifecycle high tier had barely any destroyers, and what you'd end up having was Iowas and Yamato's just camping their bow towards enemies sailing at 1/4th speed or in reverse just sniping all match, and nobody could do anything because you could only set two fires on them which is easily manageable with a repair,  and if you got close you'd either get citadelled or lose half your HP from regular penetrations, where you couldn't do much damage at all to the enemy shooting at you.

  • Cool 2

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OKAY!

So, This will not be a thread about me ranting on the rather over used "TORPZ IZ OPEEZ, NURF NAOW" subject, but rather me trying to show WHY.

 

Let's start

 

The top tier JPN torp is the largest, most damaging and easiest to dodge weapon in it's tier(damage and size count for all tiers)

The torpedo's statistics are as follows:

Weight 2.7 tonnes (5952.48 lb)
Length 9 metres (29 ft 6 516 in)
Diameter 610 mm (2 ft 164 in)

Effective firing range 22,000 metres (at 48–50 knots (89–93 km/h; 55–58 mph))
Maximum firing range 40,400 metres (at 34–36 knots (63–67 km/h; 39–41 mph))
Warhead weight 490 kg (1080.27 lb)

The explosive charge is just shy of half a ton.

For those of you who do not know what a blast like that can do in real life, here is an image: 92lj3eS.jpg

 

Now for the 16in guns of the Iowa(heaviest shell ingame next to the 18in Yamato shell)

The 16in guns of the Iowa-class were formidable, they had a shell weight of 1.2t and muzzle velocity of 762m/s on the ap round.

I couldn't find an image of the hole it leaves, but it's not as devastating.

The HE round of this gun packed(under correction) a 62kg explosive to give it some boom.

Now 9 of these hitting in the same place at more or less the same time will be equal to 558kg of explosive charge, this, however, is impossible to achieve in-game and in real-life.

 

On to speeds

The Type 93 torpedo is fast, at 53kts(98.16Km/h) but the battleship shell has this countered with 726M/s (2743.2Km/h); I don't know about you, but one of these seems really hard to dodge.

The torpedo goes in a perfectly straight line(albeit with an angle due to spreads) in-game, which makes it pretty easy to dodge if you aren't mentally challenged or they were dropped extremely cleverly. The 16in shell on the other-hand, has the advantage of aiming at you and having the shells reach you faster than a large number of ships can turn.

 

Conclusion:

 

Torpedos do MASSIVE amounts of damage due to having HUGE explosive warheads, and the scaling of the damage isn't even that well done one torp does 20k damage, 2 Iowa pews do 28k damage on 2 full citadel hits, and can fire from 20+km away and hit before you've reloaded(I think) whilst the long lance is gonna travel for centuries to hit the other side of the map.

 

This is my first long post so sorry for the lack of detail.

-Kennie-

 

 

Go easy on my little brother guys. He hasn't played WoWS often and doesn't know the full stats of many things ingame.

 

The maximum DPM of Shimakaze's Long Lance torpdoes (15 torpedoes) is about 120,000 to 125,000, the DPM of one individual long lance torpedo is  around 8,000 damage.

But you have to keep in mind the weight per salvo, one entire Shimakaze salvo has the maximum potential to do 305,000 damage.

The maximum DPM of Iowa's shells is about 250,000 to 260,000 damage, the DPM of one individual shell is indeed 28,000 damage.

However, the weight per salvo is 126,000 damage.

 

Both can be countered, both by taking preventive measures. You avoid Shimakaze's maximum damage by manoeuvring in advance, you avoid Iowa's maximum by angling in advance. The point is that neither are reactive, they're both preventive measures taken to counter these things. However you cannot do both at the same time, which is where most people get annoyed.

 

You also have to realise that Shimakaze can only do this maximum damage to a few ships, namely destroyers, carriers, and both tier 8 soviet cruisers, due to torpedo defence systems reducing the damage by a flat percentage. In the case of Iowa I think this is 32% so Shimakaze's maximum damage/salvo is about 200,000 damage per salvo, against a Yamato this is 135,000 damage, Amagi is 150,000 ~ 180,000 depending on hull.

 

Similarly, regular penetrations and overpenetrations modify Iowa's damage/salvo to 42,000 and 12,600 respectively.

 

The natural balance of this would be to make regular damage 50% of maximum damage, and modify overpen damage to be a function of how much penetration you had in excess scaling down from 50% to 10% where a huge abundance of kinetic power would deal less damage. However this is a big nerf to cruisers, which in turn makes destroyers more powerful.

 

I don't think shell mechanics need changing right now.  I think for IJN DDs, reducing the damage, decreasing the reload and decreasing the spotting range of their torps across the board (from Tier 6 and up) would be a better idea.

Currently, IJN gameplay is hit and miss and is more on punishing poor play which brings out the whiners. However, you could make a Shimakaze drop one torpedo at a time that does 2k damage and is spotted from the moment it launches and you'll still get morons who sail into it and claim it's OP.

 

~Hunter

Edited by Hunter_Steel

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Oh yeah I definitely agree, I just was pointing out both sides of the argument and giving a reason as to why the argument of "I can't angle against torpedoes" is flawed.

But the goal of torpedoes is if not to damage targets, it is to deny areas and to trap the enemy into exposing their vulnerable areas. And this is still true.

 

For a while, early/mid in the game's "release" lifecycle high tier had barely any destroyers, and what you'd end up having was Iowas and Yamato's just camping their bow towards enemies sailing at 1/4th speed or in reverse just sniping all match, and nobody could do anything because you could only set two fires on them which is easily manageable with a repair,  and if you got close you'd either get citadelled or lose half your HP from regular penetrations, where you couldn't do much damage at all to the enemy shooting at you.

Dat Yamy armor dough.

I've not played high tier yet as I am not really good at this game, but I have observed the might of Yamato, and Derpitz tanking and spanking.

 

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I don't think shell mechanics need changing right now.  I think for IJN DDs, reducing the damage, decreasing the reload and decreasing the spotting range of their torps across the board (from Tier 6 and up) would be a better idea.

Currently, IJN gameplay is hit and miss and is more on punishing poor play which brings out the whiners. However, you could make a Shimakaze drop one torpedo at a time that does 2k damage and is spotted from the moment it launches and you'll still get morons who sail into it and claim it's OP.

 

~Hunter

 

As a cruiser, battleship, and destroyer player... I'd take long reload one hit kills over torpedo spam any day of the year.

Long torpedo reloads, while the torpedoes themselves deal a TON of damage, I have at least 1 minute of peace before I have to deal with them again.

If reloads were faster, I'd only have 30 seconds or less peace time, which is the issue right now with the torpedo destroyer saturation in high tiers, moreso since US destroyers at tier 8 get faster reloads and roughly 10km range, albeit they deal barely any damage, the flooding damage still hurts a ton.

Oh yeah torpedoes always cause flooding, so faster reloads is definitely worse.

 

It's like... Torpedoes are Sin, and my hull is Kilika Island, every time you hit me at least I'll have a calm for 20 years 2 minutes before I have to send another Summoner Cruiser at your face.

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As a cruiser, battleship, and destroyer player... I'd take long reload one hit kills over torpedo spam any day of the year.

Long torpedo reloads, while the torpedoes themselves deal a TON of damage, I have at least 1 minute of peace before I have to deal with them again.

If reloads were faster, I'd only have 30 seconds or less peace time, which is the issue right now with the torpedo destroyer saturation in high tiers, moreso since US destroyers at tier 8 get faster reloads and roughly 10km range, albeit they deal barely any damage, the flooding damage still hurts a ton.

Oh yeah torpedoes always cause flooding, so faster reloads is definitely worse.

 

It's like... Torpedoes are Sin, and my hull is Kilika Island, every time you hit me at least I'll have a calm for 20 years 2 minutes before I have to send another Summoner Cruiser at your face.

You have a way with words my good friend.

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You have a way with words my good friend.

 

Sorry, I've been replaying FFX recently.

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Shinji's a wuss, I can glare at him and get him in the robot while eating my popcorn.

 

 

Then why is he running away?

 

Yeah, dump the wimp; eyepatch Asuka is da' bomb anyway.

 

I've had 10k torp hits on occasion with various (usually IJN) ships, but not consistently.

 

Generally speaking; should I be happy never to have experience a torp wall in my higher-tier games? (about 300 total 8-10s) (That, or I was just never around where it happened...)

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Kagero and Shimakaze short torps should do about 10k more damage....

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I once hit a torp for 232 damage.  

 

Im like OH A TORP HIT AWESOME! 

 

232 dmg

 

:fishpalm:

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