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Lord_Zath

High-tier gameplay/economy

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I'm seeing a lot of 30-40% win rate players at 8/9/10 now.  The high tiers just aren't fun, and even divisioned up with two other great players, I'm finding it nearly impossible to win.  Since WG can't bar people from playing tiers based on win rate, I wonder if the economy is the answer.  With increased costs, only the best players can afford to play tiers 8/9/10 and come away with a profit.  The others will find they need to go back to tiers 4/5/6 and accumulate credits, hopefully improving in the process.  

 

In response, perhaps credit earning should also be doubled.  Average players end up walking away with the same money, but good players earn more, and worse players have fewer chances to take out their high-tier ships.

 

What do you guys think?  Anyone else encountering a massive win wall at tier 9?

 

 

Edit:  Updates from peoples' constructive posts so far:

 

Zath, buddy, I feel your rage and pain.  I've seen so much better play and teamwork at the lower tiers lately it isn't funny.  High tiers seem to have been infected by bots pretty badly.  And it is now shown to be just a matter of time for the fail players to fail to high tiers.  The solution isn't repair costs.  My tactic upon being inflicted with such a waste of a game is to look for the players on my team that couldn't even garner 280XP in the losing effort and that don't have the detonation medal and then I report them as bots.  (not plays poorly since that doesn't even get paid attention to)  Mass bot reports might get enough dev attention to come up with some sort of skill wall.

 

So someone expressing a gripe is now just a troll thread?   Sorry but there really are some players in this game that play so ineptly, I seriously question their ability to exist without divine assistance.  Yeah, Zath's idea for a solution is poor.   But there has to be something that can be done to mitigate the flood of dreck that keeps rising. 

 

After some thought and theorycrafting, perhaps changing the number of ships in the high tier (8-10) matches may be a solution.  If the pool of players is getting larger by more and more unskilled players going from a 14v14 to a 10v10 match may work.  Queue times would be faster because there would be more matches made.  Even in a 2 CV mirror match there are still 8 other ships on the teams, and there aren't as many potential AA bubbles for CVs to contend with.  At the same time, DDs no longer have that additional number of targets to pick from a herd so just blind torp spamming will be less effective.  Fewer opponents means that a skilled player will have a better opportunity to carry his unskilled teammates.  Now tier wise, this would mean that tier 10s could now only division up with tiers 10 thru 8.  Tier 8 would be the "flex" tier in MM, if a tier 8 is top MM then it would be in the 14v14 pool.  If not, it would be available for the 10v10 pool if there weren't enough 9s and 10s.  I'm not claiming this as the solution but it might be an idea worth considering.

 

 

So essentially, you want WoWS to be the US justice system.

 

Because punishment without any help improving totally works.

 

This is why repair fees are a crap way to improve gameplay in the first place. Repair fees just flatly punish taking damage, regardless if taking that damage helps you win or not. It doesn't tell you why you got punished, or hwo to improve so it doesn't happen again.

 

Reducing the number of players at the end game only causes stagnation as repetitively playing the same players over and over is boring.  Increasing the number of players in the high end is beneficial.

 

 

From the May news:

 

May 1-June 1Monthlong Missions, Reduced Repairs

Complete the missions to get a commemorative flag and help our charity partner, Fisher House FoundationPlus reduced repair costs for tier VIII-X ships!

STARTS May 1 at 04:20 PT / 07:20 ET

ENDS June 1 at 04:20 PT / 07:20 ET

 

 

 

Curious how much of a reduction it is though.

 

 

Also OP you can't get rid of those kinds of players at high tiers. This game has been out more than long enough for people to "bad" their way to 10s. Look at WOT. We had about 3 months of good high tier action then it slowly went down hill to what it is now. If you use XVM there you will see a sea of reds and oranges with a sprinkle of greens and maybe 1 or 2 blues/purples if you're lucky.

 

 

Someone has to win and these players are simply getting very unlucky. If anything, repair costs need to decrease so that more players are encouraged to play their high tier ships regularly instead of feeling the need to farm mid tiers for credits just to play.

 

 

While I kinda agree with your statement, I think it will only reduce the top tier population to the point where we cannot get full games anymore... That was the same problem most high tier players had a few months ago. 

Anyway, if you want to div hit me up as I mostly play high tier :P

 

Ummm, no. Repair costs are sky-high up there. If you don't do very well you hemorrhage credits by design. I don't make money up there and I'm way above average. Bad players already can't play very many games up there without doing a lot of grinding at lower tiers or paying real money for credits. You could quadruple costs and bad players will still play, but you will further de-incentivise anyone from playing up there. You will end up with several minute wait times for half empty games.

 
Edited by Lord_Zath
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you asking for a increase of repair cost? are you nuts?

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They just lowered the repair costs for T8-10 by 20%. Please don't promote an increase in credit costs at those tiers, the players that play poorly will still lose money easily at T8+, but those of us that are average-above average will be able to profit at T8 and break even at T9 without premium.

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So how else can we get rid of bad players in the high tiers?  It's really getting frustrating taking out a tier 9 ship and losing because your Lexington has a 35% win rate (and 25% in the ship), meanwhile the enemy Lexington has a 65%.  

 

I'm seeing the same gameplay that exists at tier 4.  Ships sailing broadside.  Ships not even trying to dodge torpedo attacks.  

 

I'm seriously thinking of selling my tier 9's and writing them off as bad ideas...

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Lot of idiots thinking that it is easier at high tiers ships.   oh well.   that is how WG makes moneh.    

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So your grand idea is to drive literally everyone away from non-Premium T8+ ships because they would be literally impossible to break even with 

 

How about no, just no. Here's a better idea, how about YOU get better to the point where you can generally carry the potatoes that the MM gives you.

 

It's what everyone else has to do.

 

 

 Lot of idiots thinking that it is easier at high tiers ships.   oh well.   that is how WG makes moneh.    

 ^Makes pretty good players seem even better because of it as well.

 

Edited by Sakuzhi
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I love how people seem to think repair costs are the culprit for poor play at high tiers. Any bad player will eventually make it to tier 10, and high repair costs just means that said player will need to drop down to the lower tiers more often. But when that one player goes down to the lower tiers, there are plenty of more bad players to take his place up at tiers 9 and 10. 

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WHAT? Are you insane, in say a Yamato it takes like 3 kills alone to make a profit, double that cost could bring it to 6, no one would play as no one would ever make money forcing all the good players either out from WoWs or to the lower tiers to sealclub. 

 

 

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you asking for a increase of repair cost? are you nuts?

 

Are you nuts?

 

Just cuz your good, doesn't mean I want increased cost.

 

Whether or not that decreases bads in high tiers, it doesn't matter.  You are always going to have bad players on both teams.

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OP, just be glad WG got rid of the neg button on these forums, other wise the magnitude of negs you'd receive for this post would be astronomical.

 

Do you have any idea how long people have been asking for a reduction in the high tier repair costs? WG just recently reduced them. I actually finally have a small interest in high tier battles now. And with the new lower repair costs, I've been hearing of the higher tiers becoming less of a max range snipe fest.

 

So yeah -1,000,000,000,000,000 to your idea OP. 

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People grind to the T8-10 ships because they want to use them.

 

Not because they have to go back to T4-7 ships for grinding credits to run them. Seriously, part of my motivation to grind Mogami (about 20-25K XP from researching Ibuki) was to get up the next tier. Previously I wasn't so motivated because all it takes is a bad match or dying early and boom, you've lost a lot of credits; breaking even in a 15.7KM-ranged CA is hard when the enemy BBs can touch you from 20km and sometimes a DD will be a jerk and tail you so their snipers can chase you.

 

CV mains have to put up with mirror MM and CV sniping. They apparently have the biggest repair bill. Dying early would be like 350K credits shot--that's 3-6 lower tier matches' worth of good rewards!

 

BB mains deal with sniping and invisible DDs torping or invisi-firing them. Bad position or mistake, and they eat a massive repair bill.

 

DD mains have to contend with CAs and BBs being alert for a chance to shoot them, plus it's normally difficult to torp players if they know you're in the area. They also have to wrangle with each other.

Edited by Reymu

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Zath, buddy, I feel your rage and pain.  I've seen so much better play and teamwork at the lower tiers lately it isn't funny.  High tiers seem to have been infected by bots pretty badly.  And it is now shown to be just a matter of time for the fail players to fail to high tiers.  The solution isn't repair costs.  My tactic upon being inflicted with such a waste of a game is to look for the players on my team that couldn't even garner 280XP in the losing effort and that don't have the detonation medal and then I report them as bots.  (not plays poorly since that doesn't even get paid attention to)  Mass bot reports might get enough dev attention to come up with some sort of skill wall.

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Repair costs don't keep bad players out of high tiers.

 

Also queuing up in a division can be a double-edged sword unless you're in a T10 ship. Playing in T10 divisions is where you win a lot and "farm."

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DOWNVOTE! The only way for bad high tier players to get better is for them to play more high tier games, not less. Even if you're good now, you had to learn sometime. Everyone's goal should be to help encourage and develop new players at all levels rather that attacking them for the "crime" of being new. DUH!

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They just lowered the repair costs for T8-10 by 20%

 

As a trial, for the duration of April. It's no longer April.

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Whats funny to me is how often people cry about high tiers gameplay, yet most of the complainers dont even have a tier 10 (not even tier 9)

 

On top of that they think that skill is only at lower tiers.  <----- That is hilarious

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So how else can we get rid of bad players in the high tiers?  It's really getting frustrating taking out a tier 9 ship and losing because your Lexington has a 35% win rate (and 25% in the ship), meanwhile the enemy Lexington has a 65%.  

 

I'm seeing the same gameplay that exists at tier 4.  Ships sailing broadside.  Ships not even trying to dodge torpedo attacks.  

 

I'm seriously thinking of selling my tier 9's and writing them off as bad ideas...

 

Guess what even with the 20% repair rate, those "Bad" players get wasted without doing near enough to cover their own costs, just like "gasp" tanks. Sure they may get their tier 8+ game in here and there, but they have to do 3-4 games at lower tiers to cover that cost.

 

And guess what it was coming eventually. Everyone has the right to play at higher tiers, unless you really want this game to become a ghost town much like planes is.

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I'm seeing a lot of 30-40% win rate players at 8/9/10 now.  The high tiers just aren't fun, and even divisioned up with two other great players, I'm finding it nearly impossible to carry.  Since WG can't bar people from playing tiers based on win rate, I wonder if the economy is the answer.  With increased costs, only the best players can afford to play tiers 8/9/10 and come away with a profit.  The others will find they need to go back to tiers 4/5/6 and accumulate credits, hopefully improving in the process.

 

What do you guys think?  Anyone else encountering a massive win wall at tier 9?

 

This is elitism at its best or at the very least self-entitlement gone off the deep end. You are proposing to keep players out of certain tiers in an open game so you can the way you want.

 

Instead why don't you ask for a monthly subscription version of the game so you have your safe space from players who are just playing to play the ships.

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As a trial, for the duration of April. It's no longer April.

 

I'm aware. And I do believe WG received a lot of positive feedback about that too. Also I'm not aware if there was a hotifx that has reverted this trial back yet. If not, then they can keep it active for however long they want, I won't complain.

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So someone expressing a gripe is now just a troll thread?   Sorry but there really are some players in this game that play so ineptly, I seriously question their ability to exist without divine assistance.  Yeah, Zath's idea for a solution is poor.   But there has to be something that can be done to mitigate the flood of dreck that keeps rising. 

 

After some thought and theorycrafting, perhaps changing the number of ships in the high tier (8-10) matches may be a solution.  If the pool of players is getting larger by more and more unskilled players going from a 14v14 to a 10v10 match may work.  Queue times would be faster because there would be more matches made.  Even in a 2 CV mirror match there are still 8 other ships on the teams, and there aren't as many potential AA bubbles for CVs to contend with.  At the same time, DDs no longer have that additional number of targets to pick from a herd so just blind torp spamming will be less effective.  Fewer opponents means that a skilled player will have a better opportunity to carry his unskilled teammates.  Now tier wise, this would mean that tier 10s could now only division up with tiers 10 thru 8.  Tier 8 would be the "flex" tier in MM, if a tier 8 is top MM then it would be in the 14v14 pool.  If not, it would be available for the 10v10 pool if there weren't enough 9s and 10s.  I'm not claiming this as the solution but it might be an idea worth considering.

Edited by MagisterAurelius

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T9-10 was [edited] up before your "bad's" made it there, sitting back and playing aggro passive  sailing in little circles 20k from each other while shimas picked everybody off or Yamatos dev striked a cruisers by RNGesus favor amen.

 

If anything some players that will push a bit and could give [edited]all about their stats will be a breath of fresh air...

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So how else can we get rid of bad players in the high tiers?  It's really getting frustrating taking out a tier 9 ship and losing because your Lexington has a 35% win rate (and 25% in the ship), meanwhile the enemy Lexington has a 65%.  

 

I'm seeing the same gameplay that exists at tier 4.  Ships sailing broadside.  Ships not even trying to dodge torpedo attacks.  

 

I'm seriously thinking of selling my tier 9's and writing them off as bad ideas...

 

You can't get rid of bad players. It just cannot be done. Honestly the number of bad players at all tiers will increase as the game runs. All that needs to happen for this to be true is for the game to continue to grow. If the game grows, the skills of the player base will average out on a bell curve. That basically makes it certain that most of the players of the game will be average, with a few true bads, a few true goods, and a smattering of those above average, but not amazing players (like me) and below average but not really terrible. Since basically everyone considers all players who are average to below to just be bad, the vast majority of players are "bad players." Then, when the MM reaches into the pool and grabs 23 players to put into battle with you, since you are very good, it makes it certain that you will always have at least 1 very good players on your team, but the other 23 will most likely be "bad players." That will mean as the population of the game increases, the number of battles where all 24 players are "bad players" goes up. For people who are really, really good, like Quickybaby in World of Tanks, this is good. It weakens the average level of opposition making it easier for that 1 really good player to farm more enemies and carry their whole team. For guys who aren't as good, like me, it's bad. Most of the time, if my team doesn't have like 1 or 2 other guys who are pretty good on it, I can't solo carry against the enemy cause I'm just not good enough.

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