Wargaming, The New Lower Threshold for TK'ing is Too Harsh

[GhostSwordsman]

Seriously, this new team damage threshold is too strict. I just got my New Orleans tonight and played a couple of rounds with her to get some exp for the range upgrade. In the third or so match I played, I accidentally ran into a low health DD and then sunk him.

 

I viewed my own replay, and It was my guns that took him out. I take full responsibility for that as I shouldn't have opened fire when I did. However, pre-0.5.5, I would not have become marked as a teamkiller for taking off 299 HP. I've only ever accidentally killed allies 3 times now in nearly 2k games. The previous incidents were with torps hundreds of games ago(me not paying attention like an idiot), and I've only ever hit friendlies with torps and guns very, very rarely. Usually when I'm not paying attention enough when launching torpedoes, or when I get tunnel visioned while firing guns. We all have those moments. Quite literally, I can count the number of times I've done damage and/or sunk allies on one hand.

 

But now, with this new system, players are being labeled teamkillers for accidents. It's silly, in my opinion.

 

I understand that something needs to be done with the serial TK'ers/griefers, but this is not the solution. I played around 4 to 5 more games in my NO to try and wear off the pink status, to no avail. I did not do any team damage in the games following my marking of pink, and have at this point accumulated 90k total damage in my NO, over 50k of it I can guarantee was from the succeeding games after turning pink, and I'm still marked pink. Luckily, I didn't run into anyone that shot at me because of being pink, thankfully(perhaps enough people know of the new lower threshold and are more forgiving for now, I dunno) I don't think I've ever been this frustrated at this game before. WG, please revise the TK/pink status changes you made in 0.5.5 and raise the threshold some, it's just too harsh currently.

 

 

I'll state it again, as it's been pointed out in the thread a few times already, Pink ships used to mean that the pink player was HABITUALLY careless. It took many instances of team damage to turn pink before and any ship that was pink could immediately be identified as a habitual Tk'er. Now, it just tells us that someone happened to cause team damage in a previous game, with no idea to what quantity that team damage was. Was it an accident that only took off a bit of HP and managed to sink an ally? Was it a DD that purposely drove straight at their CV and dropped a full spread into it's broadside? Was it a griefer that killed or shot a teammate out of spite for 'kill stealing'? We don't know now.

 

While I agree with the sentiment that it's nice for others to know to be careful around a player that's careless, or happened to be careless in recent past, because they're pink, I don't think instantly labeling anyone who damages a teammate as such is right. It gives no leeway for accidents, which do happen regardless of how careful players are. That's why they're called accidents.

 

For anyone interested, I went ahead and uploaded the replay of the game that turned me pink onto WoWsreplays. Watch it if you want. I think that after viewing the replay myself that both I and the ally I sunk are to blame, but I will clarify this here again, I take full responsibility for what happened, I shouldn't have opened fire when I did, but I made a mistake and paid for it.

 

Here's the replay: http://wowreplays.com/Replay/4968-GhostSwordsman-New-Orleans-Tears-of-the-Desert

 

[bad_arcade_kitty]

it's not for taking off 299 hp but for sinking the ship

 

imo it's 100% correct that you were labeled a tkiller, if i were that dd i would care less how much hp from me you took if it were you who sunk me

[GhostSwordsman]

imo it's 100% correct that you were labeled a tkiller, if i were that dd i would care less how much hp from me you took if it were you who sunk me

 

I never claimed I was wrongfully labeled a team killer.

 

I'm claiming that this new threshold is too low, and the consequences for accidents is too harsh.

[MidnightShamalan]

i suppose you'll be more careful from now on then?

 

i'd say their new system is working. that's the kind of thing they're trying to get people to avoid. sure, it was an accident. but you were careless. and now you'll be more careful.

 

i'm pretty sure the new system was less about serial TKers and more about situations like you just mentioned. a big old "pay the [edited] attention or you're going pink" for all those that don't pay attention to their allies when firing guns / launching torps. or just don't care. now they have a reason to care.

[ryuukei8569]

 

it's not for taking off 299 hp but for sinking the ship

 

imo it's 100% correct that you were labeled a tkiller, if i were that dd i would care less how much hp from me you took if it were you who sunk me

No its not 100% correct, its 100% wrong. why, because pink tag should be there as a warnign to other players that pinkie might be a serial TK'er. But if 999 out of 1000 of the pinkes are a result of accidents, how the hell is everyone else supposed to tell a serial apart from an accidental now. All this new stupid TK rule does is it makes it easier for the Serial TK'ers to hide, and its going to cause the rest of the team to be less wary of the actual serials. And in the end it does nothing to solve the problem of serial TK'ers, since there is no real punishment for them beyond becoming pink. No sorry, but these new TK rules are stupid and don't solve anything, and if anything it creates a system that is far easier to exploit by trolls and griefers.

[GhostSwordsman]

i suppose you'll be more careful from now on then?

 

i'd say their new system is working. that's the kind of thing they're trying to get people to avoid. sure, it was an accident. but you were careless. and now you'll be more careful.

 

i'm pretty sure the new system was less about serial TKers and more about situations like you just mentioned. a big old "pay the [edited] attention or you're going pink" for all those that don't pay attention to their allies when firing guns / launching torps. or just don't care. now they have a reason to care.

 

Yes, in the moment it happened I was careless. No need to sound condescending with that opening question.

 

I should have been paying more attention to what I was doing and my surroundings. That still does not change the fact that something doesn't sit right with this new system. Nobody is perfect and stuff like this will happen, maybe not often, but it will happen.

 

If this new system is to discourage situations like I was in, then what's the point in marking players instantaneously? Does WG expect us to stay 10km away from all allied ships and hide in the back of the maps so we don't ever run the risk of hitting friendlies? In game things get heated, players, even the best of them, lose focus for even a few seconds, and it can lead to something like this. Sometimes it's poor playing on one persons side, sometimes it's both, sometimes its just plain carelessness and sometimes it's just dumb luck. I don't think there's a need to mark players as team killers just for ending up in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

And besides, any players that cared about not hitting allies before 0.5.5 would be paying attention to what they're doing regardless of the new or old rules, because they didn't want to risk turning pink, so it wouldn't be any different now except for the fact that they'll instantly turn pink. And anyone who didn't care before, most likely will still not care.

[bad_arcade_kitty]

 

No its not 100% correct, its 100% wrong. why, because pink tag should be there as a warnign to other players that pinkie might be a serial TK'er. 

 

firstly with the new change they made so it's a sign of a tkiller, not a serial tkiller, and it indeed is true in this case

 

secondly, do you realize that one can intentionally finish off damaged allied ships doing pretty low damage but griefing probably worse than if he sunk them from full? imagine you just went from the devils claws just to be sunk by friendly fire

 

[Misato]

So now pink is real common and thus meaningless.  You can claim it's working as intended, sure, but so what.  If pink doesn't mean a thing then why should WG bother with it at all?

[pmgaudio]

it's not for taking off 299 hp but for sinking the ship

 

imo it's 100% correct that you were labeled a tkiller, if i were that dd i would care less how much hp from me you took if it were you who sunk me

 

you should not be so opinionated as to him being a team killer.....

If he had his secondaries take him out and had NO IDEA he was there till it was too late, it would still be an accident...

You assume he did it on purpose, and therefore reached your conclusion....

The current threshold is a bit to shallow and cannot result in anything but more and more pink players that are TRULY accidental....

ANd I should not have to turn my secondaries off but I guess I will have to now, when a team mate comes in between my and my prey (not the best idea)

[Crucis]

it's not for taking off 299 hp but for sinking the ship

 

imo it's 100% correct that you were labeled a tkiller, if i were that dd i would care less how much hp from me you took if it were you who sunk me

 

 

Except that maybe it was the DD's own damned fault!!!  Maybe not in this case, but far too often, people don't pay attention to how close to friendlies they get.  And we all know that people are usually zoomed in on distant targets, if they're playing CAs and BBs with their longer ranged guns.

 

I know that some might still blame the CA/BB for not paying attention.  But the fact is that friendlies who are really, really close to your ship have their icon merge with your own on the minimap and if you take a quick glance, many often won't notice that there are 2 icons overlapping each other.

 

It's nice to say "pay attention to your surroundings" when one talks about the firing ship, but what about telling the other guy to pay attention to his surroundings as well?  Don't drive right up to the side of a friendly ship, PARTICULARLY the side where his guns are aimed.  Do that and you're just begging to get shot by accident.

 

 

 

 

[Canadatron]

Yeah, I'm glad they implemented it. I've grown a little tired of having people decide to take opening round potshots at my ships that strip 1/3 of their health in the first FF salvo. Now with the requirements higher in that WG *needs* a replay (that they can't even enable in their own game yet) I'm happy to see that this is at least a step in the right direction.

 

Shooting a friendly will have to be one of those things people -OH NOES- have to pay attention to..... heaven forbid!

[Crucis]

it's not for taking off 299 hp but for sinking the ship

 

imo it's 100% correct that you were labeled a tkiller, if i were that dd i would care less how much hp from me you took if it were you who sunk me

 

you should not be so opinionated as to him being a team killer.....

If he had his secondaries take him out and had NO IDEA he was there till it was too late, it would still be an accident...

You assume he did it on purpose, and therefore reached your conclusion....

The current threshold is a bit to shallow and cannot result in anything but more and more pink players that are TRULY accidental....

ANd I should not have to turn my secondaries off but I guess I will have to now, when a team mate comes in between my and my prey (not the best idea)

 

 

This is a great point, PMG.  I doubt that most people would even realize that their secondaries might accidentally fire and kill a friendly, or think to turn them off to prevent it.  It probably wouldn't occur to me.

 

 

[Crucis]

Yeah, I'm glad they implemented it. I've grown a little tired of having people decide to take opening round potshots at my ships that strip 1/3 of their health in the first FF salvo. Now with the requirements higher in that WG *needs* a replay (that they can't even enable in their own game yet) I'm happy to see that this is at least a step in the right direction.

 

Shooting a friendly will have to be one of those things people -OH NOES- have to pay attention to..... heaven forbid!

 

 

I have no problem with them dealing with truly intentional TK's.  But accidental cases are another thing entirely.  And how about the friendly paying attention to not putting himself in a position to GET HIT by a team mate?  Stop always blaming the player firing the gun.  The idiot who puts himself in the line fire deserves a lot of the blame here as well, and often most of it, IMO.

 

[MidnightShamalan]

"tunnel vision is a thing"

that shouldn't happen. always check your surroundings.

 

"accidents happen"

once.

 

"i didn't do it on purpose"

no, but you did do it.

 

"he drove in front of me"

and then *you* pulled the trigger.

 

"i shouldn't be marked as a team killer for an accident"

you seem to be missing the point. the term team killer does not differentiate between "purposeful" and "accidental" team damage. just team damage. the only ones who should be stressing out as much as everyone seems to be are the ones who do it on purpose. everyone else can easily work off the pink in a few games. as long as they do more than 10k average damage in those few games, as the OP seems to have implied.

[Kaystonian8283]

It's no harsh what so ever, and it's working as intended. If you sink your teamate under any circumstances you should be labeled. Their are far to many (accidents in wows) and by labeling you pink it gives me an whomever else it may concern a heads up to stay far away from ya so that we may have a gg. 

[Bril01]

 

No its not 100% correct, its 100% wrong. why, because pink tag should be there as a warnign to other players that pinkie might be a serial TK'er.

 

The point of the system was not to identify serial TK players, it was to warn of a play who recently killed a team mate.  Which is exactly what the OP did and what the system was warning the next set of team mates about.  Personally I think it should be more than one TK status.  If you kill or serious damage a ship you get the pink and it slowly fades over time (provided you don't damage any more team mates) and a second brighter pink for players who are serial offenders.   I would also make serial offenders a FFA status so their own team can trust them or sink their asses if they make a provocative action against them.  For example a marked DD turning around and heading straight towards your CV the second the match starts.

[Kenjister]

Everyone is forgetting what pink ACTUALLY does though.

 

Half of damage you do to friendlies is reflected back at you.

If it was accidental, being pink does nothing to hurt you. Other players can see that you were careless, and act accordingly. Most people won't shoot you. They might if you beeline for a friendly CV in a DD though.

 

What pink does it ensure that IF you are a serial teamkiller, doing damage to teammates will kill you pretty quickly, and limit your influence on the match.

 

Is it really that bad?

[Aduial]

 

No its not 100% correct, its 100% wrong. why, because pink tag should be there as a warnign to other players that pinkie might be a serial TK'er. But if 999 out of 1000 of the pinkes are a result of accidents, how the hell is everyone else supposed to tell a serial apart from an accidental now. All this new stupid TK rule does is it makes it easier for the Serial TK'ers to hide, and its going to cause the rest of the team to be less wary of the actual serials. And in the end it does nothing to solve the problem of serial TK'ers, since there is no real punishment for them beyond becoming pink. No sorry, but these new TK rules are stupid and don't solve anything, and if anything it creates a system that is far easier to exploit by trolls and griefers.

Very good point. If the pink colour is there to tell apart the TKers, we need to know who the real ones are. 

[Skpstr]

So now pink is real common and thus meaningless.  You can claim it's working as intended, sure, but so what.  If pink doesn't mean a thing then why should WG bother with it at all?

 

But it does mean a thing. It's not there to warn others, it's there to remind you to be careful, because if you aren't, you'll be taking reflected damage.

[Canadatron]

Very good point. If the pink colour is there to tell apart the TKers, we need to know who the real ones are. 

Legitimate TKs? If you sank someone on your team I'd say you deserve the pink hue of shame.

[DeathsStalker]

 

I understand that something needs to be done with the serial TK'ers/griefers, but this is not the solution. I played around 4 to 5 more games in my NO to try and wear off the pink status, to no avail. I did not do any team damage in the games following my marking of pink, and have at this point accumulated 90k total damage in my NO, over 50k of it I can guarantee was from the succeeding games after turning pink, and I'm still marked pink. Luckily, I didn't run into anyone that shot at me because of being pink, thankfully(perhaps enough people know of the new lower threshold and are more forgiving for now, I dunno) I don't think I've ever been this frustrated at this game before. WG, please revise the TK/pink status changes you made in 0.5.5 and raise the threshold some, it's just too harsh currently.

I'd have to agree with you anyone can sink someone by accident. Last week I sank 2 teammates who turned into my Torps even though I warned them not to turn left when I saw them change direction (They were real short bus player for even being where they were) They were my first team kills in 6 month. So I guess I was lucky for having it happen the last few days.

 

I always figured that team kills would be for multiple kills (like 3- 5) over a set period of time (Weeks months)

 

I've played a lot of games the last few days with a lot more pink ships showing up and I do watch how they play and if they play well I always give them a complement for playing well. I also played with true team killers who at the start of a game torp my CV at the start of the game.

 

I think WoW needs to revisit this

[Mannstien]

Well at least now we can all be the same color, 4k games and have never turned pink not saying I never did team damage (Never on Purpose) but I suspect with the amount I play at times it is now inevitable as I'm human and therefore I shall turn pink LOL. Ludicrous, maybe they should have just added a new color hmmm.....? Yellow as a warning that player has caused team damage significant enough to make them pink in the new system but not a serial, Pink for those who do it every game or so on and so forth, I mean they have a way to track how long it's been since you last TK'd so how hard could it be to differentiate these things? 

[crzyhawk]

consequences?  What consequences?  Who cares if you turn pink.  You're only getting banned if someone sends a replay, and accidents are usually pretty clear as to what they are.  So, you turn pink,  BFD.  Fight your way out of it and drive on.

[KTcraft]

......

I think the problem is there isn't variable TK status.  I would like to see a damage accumulation which changes the color of your name as you do more damage.  IE if you do 500 damage your name is white, maybe tinted pink,  2000 damage and you are bright pink,  If you do 10,000 damage your name is dark pink even purple.  Kills would count for a large amount of damage.  Do enough damage and it becomes red during which you may be team killed without punishment.  

 

The darker your color, the easier it is to work it off, and as you work it off your color changes.  White status maybe a game or two.  Pink, maybe a half dozen.  Purple double that.  Red status would stay until X number of battles-say 5 were played after which you would become purple.  In addition, Darker color would reduce match rewards such as exp and credit gain thus providing incentive to leave TK status as quickly as possible.

[hoom]

 Everyone is forgetting what pink ACTUALLY does though.

Half of damage you do to friendlies is reflected back at you.

 I actually didn't know that.

 

So I went pink...

After leading the charge round the South end of Solomon Islands Domination mode with 3 kills in my Arkansas Beta I'm on cap as the last enemy Myogi comes back to defend, I continue toward him at my full speed & start shooting once he gets in range.

Meanwhile behind me

Duh duh

da da, da da

dada, dada

dada,dada,dadadadadadada

creak groan hoooooorrn

reek reek boom

 

Me: wth

Him: lol

 

I think I was hard done by.

 

Edit: Myoko -> Myogi