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Summon3r

is cruiser HE as bad as it seems?

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so playing my trusty nagato tonight with a buddy in a nagato as well. we've both been away from game for awhile back for a month now.....

 

MM decides its a night of us getting put up against mostly higher tier cruisers and im tellin yea the HE was a bloody nightmare i think i spent 2 hours tonight on fire (slight exageration but you get the point).

 

is cruiser HE currently this bad or just a bad RNG night?

 

yes i have all fire prevention skills and modules.

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Cruiser HE is hilariously broken(imo). It allows them to effectively counter their counter(Battleships) which just doesn't make sense given the rock paper scissors balancing scheme that the game is supposed to have.. 

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It seems RNGesus has not favored you. 

 

Also, it's working as intended. It's either they're raining so much HE that one of those shells will eventually light you up or IJN cruisers are shelling you with 17% fire chance each shot.

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A broken pisspoor mechanic that everyone views as "properly balanced and working as intended.".  Hah.

Edited by Ephemeric
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A lot more cruisers are running DE now which buffs fire chance.

 

Some days you can't even pay to start a fire with a cruiser as well. RNG type mechanics factor in fire chance the same as giving DMG.

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Cruiser HE is hilariously broken(imo). It allows them to effectively counter their counter(Battleships) which just doesn't make sense given the rock paper scissors balancing scheme that the game is supposed to have.. 

 

it gets even worse in high tiers especially at tier 10.  nothing counters tier 10 cruiser's except for other tier 10 cruisers :/  

 

  i say this as a BB/CV main 

 

hopefully they actually address this HE problem and actually balance it. 

Edited by Wo_9

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Cruiser HE is hilariously broken(imo). It allows them to effectively counter their counter(Battleships) which just doesn't make sense given the rock paper scissors balancing scheme that the game is supposed to have.. 

 

^100% agree. HE and fire is also nearly completely skill free for both the shooter and the one being shot, and is pure RNG. Bad mechanic is bad IMO.

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if fires did less damage or burned for less time that'd be all you needed to balance out HE IMO. a fire lasting for 60 seconds? a bit silly in game terms. (especially considering the fire seems to be on the deck, not in the hull)

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I dunno, I played Buddy quite a bit today and the base HE damage was abysmal, an average of 100ish damage per shell. If not for fire damage, shooting HE would be pointless as you could put 200 shells into a New York and still be nowhere close to sinking it.

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This is why this game will tank. No skill, brainless nonsense. WG encourages the playstyle. Blah.

 

They will never "fix" it, mark my words, it will get worse if anything.

 

Notice they STILL will not give us a fire damage taken stat? Because they know they would be caught in their lies.

Edited by teamoldmill
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This is why this game will tank. No skill, brainless nonsense. WG encourages the playstyle. Blah.

 

They will never "fix" it, mark my words, it will get worse if anything.

 

Notice they STILL will not give us a fire damage taken stat? Because they know they would be caught in their lies.

 

Tin hat detected, abandon thread. 
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It's as bad as Destroyer torpedos, Battleship nuclear citadels and pretty much everything CVs do....

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Tin hat detected, abandon thread. 

 

i mean if wows dies because of the HE mechanic it would not surprise me.  

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i mean if wows dies because of the HE mechanic it would not surprise me.  

 

if WoWS is in danger of dying just because of the HE mechanic then it would have done so back in CBT when it was about as stupid as it is now. I don't see HE as being the biggest issue (hell I'd argue flooding is dumber with it being a 100% death sentence if you don't have repair)
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if WoWS is in danger of dying just because of the HE mechanic then it would have done so back in CBT when it was about as stupid as it is now. I don't see HE as being the biggest issue (hell I'd argue flooding is dumber with it being a 100% death sentence if you don't have repair)

 

i know its not just HE alone, but its part of the problem overall that adds to the fire(pun intended) 

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i know its not just HE alone, but its part of the problem overall that adds to the fire(pun intended) 

 

A fix I'd suggest (and get burned at the stake for, pun intended) is to cut the duration of both fire and flooding by about... 30%. DoT is acceptable until it reaches levels that is just plain out stupid (2 minutes for flooding? go (edited) yourself)

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HE and fires are stupid, annoying and unfun and I say this as a primarily cruiser player.

I wish they'd buff cruiser AP a little and gut skillless RNG HE, but they wont, because idiots have to have something to do that doesn't require thought.

Edited by Snoozing_Mako

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At low to mid tiers cruiser HE is to strong(and one could argue the tier 3 and 4 BBs need buffed) but past that its fine.


 

What is a cruiser supposed to do to a battleship? Be a citadel piñata? You do realize your shells can citadel a cruiser at near any angle especially at high tiers(which is where I predominately play nowadays). And if not for fire then cruisers really couldn't damage BBs especially once they get HE saturated and your HE shells start doing sub 1k damage a hit. 203 AP is decent against BBs as well if you aim right but if the BB is angled yeah you aren't going to do much to em.


 

Battleships are fine, cruisers are a touch strong at low tiers and okay at high tiers(we'll have to see how the shima torp wall nerf changes the meta). HE shell damage is fine to me although I will concede fires being annoying and I wouldn't mind a tweak or two on them concerning once an area has been ignited and burned it should be less likely to burn in the future.

Edited by KommandantPerry
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Fire can be weird OP. Sometimes you'll get massive burns with fire, like when I fire a few volleys at a Yamato in Atago and he disappears, and then later on I see him down like 20k health and I think hey, someone else shot him. Lol nope, end of battle I find out it was my derpy fire raging unchecked cause his damage party was on CD. But I find the actual HE dpm is a lot nastier, especially if you take sustained fire (no) from CAs with tons of barrels or just a lot of CAs.

 

But when you get to Izumo it's gonna be worse, oh so much worse. I have spent several Izumo matches on fire for substantial portions of the battle.

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Fire can be weird OP. Sometimes you'll get massive burns with fire, like when I fire a few volleys at a Yamato in Atago and he disappears, and then later on I see him down like 20k health and I think hey, someone else shot him. Lol nope, end of battle I find out it was my derpy fire raging unchecked cause his damage party was on CD. But I find the actual HE dpm is a lot nastier, especially if you take sustained fire (no) from CAs with tons of barrels or just a lot of CAs.

 

But when you get to Izumo it's gonna be worse, oh so much worse. I have spent several Izumo matches on fire for substantial portions of the battle.

 

You mean like how the atlanta can power down cruisers with raw HE alone (should it's turrets not break when someone sneezes on them)?

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I dunno, I played Buddy quite a bit today and the base HE damage was abysmal, an average of 100ish damage per shell. If not for fire damage, shooting HE would be pointless as you could put 200 shells into a New York and still be nowhere close to sinking it.

 

Have you ever been in a game where matchmaker decided to stick you (for example, Tier VIII Amagi, in my case), in a match against the following;

 

Tier VIII max BBs

Tier VIII-X CAs

3 tier X Shimas

1 tier IX Kagero.

 

The DDs were not the spotlight. The cruisers were. One salvo from a Zao class, about 60% of the shells landed on my Amagi, while being angled to prevent possible penetrations to citadel from other threats, completely set my ship on fire in 3 places.. ONE SALVO DID THAT.  and burned to death because my repair ability was on cool down from extinguishing previous fire locations from the same damn HE spam.  Also to add; this was practically from a range of somewhere between 16.1-19.5km range.  My shells miss terribly (God bless the one and only almighty RNGesus)

Do you see anything abysmal in that?  I think i still have the replay for it, i'll have to dig around the replays folder.

 

of course our team lost horribly, while our own Shimakaze (the last remaining survivor on our team) did put up a valiant resistance before saying "f**k this." after the same events.

Loathe and cringeworthy for me during that time.

 

Is the prime meta in this game, "spam HE and hope fires carry you to glory"? Am i missing a piece in the equation?

 

EDIT:

Found the replay mentioned, easy to find as it was my first game of the day on 4/26/16.  It was the combined effort of a Tier X Russian CA and the Zao mentioned that helped set me on fire in 3 places while repair was on cooldown.  Still pissed me off though to say the least, as how frequent fires can occur from one simple salvo that just eats away HP while nothing can be done other than wait.

 

See for yourself

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hjnh4rq0gshnp93/20160426_114102_PJSB013-Amagi-1942_15_NE_north.wowsreplay?dl=0

 

Edited by Ephemeric

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It seems RNGesus has not favored you. 

 

Also, it's working as intended. It's either they're raining so much HE that one of those shells will eventually light you up or IJN cruisers are shelling you with 17% fire chance each shot.

 

It's 17% MINUS the ships natural resistance to fire which increases as you advanced up the tiers, MINUS the percentages from your skills (you really should be getting the fire preventions and stuff in a BB) MINUS the percentages from your upgrades. In my Myoko i get a fire about once in 15 shells WITH Demolition Expert. So as you can see that percentage is greatly reduced. However i think the BB damage control reload time should be less. One game in my ARP Kongo i had a mutsuki which kept following me around and stealth torping me. I barely took any damage from his torps, but the fact that his torps reload a lot faster than my  damage control party meant that he really only had to get a few torp hits to kill me. I took about 20 thousand damage from the torps, and 30 thousand from the flooding. 

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oh hoho wait till u see a zao with 24% fire chance.

once i set 5 fires to an amagi in 1 salvo. (he had his repairs going so it was possible)

and yes i do feel like crusier HE no HE in general needs a bit of toning down this is coming from someone who plays all ship types

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oh hoho wait till u see a zao with 24% fire chance.

once i set 5 fires to an amagi in 1 salvo. (he had his repairs going so it was possible)

and yes i do feel like crusier HE no HE in general needs a bit of toning down this is coming from someone who plays all ship types

Reduce the BB damage control party time by say....30 seconds and I think it'd be fine.

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