Saipan needs a buff!...?

[GeneralMalfunction]

So, before I get a lot of crap for what I am about to say, let me say I am an average player! I do buy premium ships just to have them, or play them for fun. I HAVE PLAYED CVs IN THE PAST SO I AM NOT A COMPLETE NOOB. 

 

THE POINT HERE IS TO MAKE THE SHIP MORE PLAYABLE BY THE AVERAGE CONSUMER. 

 

So, after playing a few games in the Saipan, even with the "air supremacy" captain skill, necessary ship upgrades, necessary captain skills, the ship still gets creamed!

 

Let me explain what I have noticed:

 

1) "It's a boom and zoom carrier mate!"

- No it's not, you can strafe and try to run, but while you're in a strafe once the enemy engages you, you are stuck in one place as they duke it out, and YOUR PLANES GET CREAMED.

-2 squads on one, YOU GET CREAMED.

-Against a Ranger loaded with fighters, YOU GET CREAMED.

-Against a Hiryu with 2/2/2 loadout, YOU GET CREAMED.

-Against higher tier CVs, YOU GET CREAMED.

 

2)I love the 8/9 DB loadout, it's probably the best thing about the ship! (No complaints here.)

 

3) The TB loadout, so low in defense/HP pool with 3 planes. (YOU GET CREAMED.)

-If you engage anything but a Kongo or Fuso, basically with anything with half a decent AA rating, YOU GET CREAMED.

 

I have noticed that while the CV is playable against a Ranger or Hiryu, the sheer number of planes on those ships will be able to out play you.

 

Some suggestions I have thought of while playing the Saipan.

-Give the Saipan the planes it deserves (those jets it actually had).

-Give the Saipan more planes per squad (just one would do) AND give its fighter more AMMO capacity, so once you do engage, you don't get screwed after running out of ammo. 

--I have noticed that even if my fighters are doing well against a squadron of Rangers or Hiryu, you run out of ammo, and as you're heading back, YOU GET CREAMED!

-Give the planes the ability to actually "BOOM AND ZOOM." Meaning if the enemy engages your planes, give them the ability to run away instead of HAVING TO BE LOCKED IN A FIGHT!

-Disable friendly fire during Strafes. 

--The Saipan already has limited number of fighters, but it makes it even worse when you're fighters are engaged in a fight, doing well, then your team mate sees an opportunity to strafe, and capitalizes at your cost.

 

-Give the ship preferential MM.

--Obvious reasons......

 

-FINALLY, the ULTIMATE SOLUTION THAT WOULD MAKE THE OTHERS UNNECESSARY!

--For those saying, "oh hey mate, that's not historically accurate" - the Izuchusi/Izumo never existed. Need I remind you of the Arp ships in the game. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Japenese ever painted their Myoko class ships pink.......

-So the solution: Give the Saipan more planes. The Ranger has 74, the Hiryu has 72, I'm saying, give the saipan about 60-65. 

--It's not historically accurate mate!

---1) It's a game.

---2) It's a number - if some programmer decides to have more planes, he just adjusts the code by a couple number and boom, a better and playable ship. 

---3) WITH THE ESCORT CARRIERS WITHIN A FLEET, AND ACCESS TO GROUND BASES, THE SAIPAN COULD HAVE HAD ACCESS TO MORE PLANES. 

 

I have a 1.95 KDR, and a 56% Win Rate. I am a noob by no means. I do well in all other class of ship, and even decent in CVs. So I am not a noob just randomly complaining. I have played other classes of ships, and even if they were bad, I never complained because those ships WERE STILL PLAYABLE!

The Saipan, in its current condition has only two options, GET CREAMED BADLY, OR GET CREAMED MODERATELY. THE END OPTION IS STILL TO GET CREAMED!

 

[J30_Reinhardt]

I'm just going to go jump off a damn cliff right now...

How LONG has the ship been out for?

[awiggin]

So being an experienced player, you didn't read any of the reviews on it?

[GhostSwordsman]

I'm just going to go jump off a damn cliff right now...

How LONG has the ship been out for?

 

It's still on sale in the shop so... around a week?

[Deathskyz]

OP Logic: My squadrons of 3 must be able to tackle squadrons of 6 without any difficulties.

You have the fastest planes at tier 7 with the lowest fighter/TB squad size.

 

Doesnt that tell you how playstyle is?

[Red_Raven_168]

Welcome to the forum

 

feel free to peruse the guide section

[Zhoyzu]

hes really only describing the day to day CV play

 

saipan is balanced

[Special_Kay]

I would be able to do horrible things to Rangers and Hiryus if Saipan gets buffed. If you want her to be easier for average players, you need to find a way to do it that doesn't make it extremely overpowered for those who aren't having trouble with her as she is now.

[TenguBlade]

Bought a Saipan without getting good at carriers?

Seriously though, WG did say that they intended the ship to appeal to die-hard CV users.  That means it's not going to appeal as much to casual players, hence why I decided to skip on the Saipan even though I had money set aside for her.

[Special_Kay]

Seriously though, WG did say that they intended the ship to appeal to die-hard CV users.  That means it's not going to appeal as much to casual players, hence why I decided to skip on the Saipan even though I had money set aside for her.

 

Personally I'm finding Saipan to be easy-mode compared to the T4-8 CVs in the USN tech tree. I suspected that would be the case; with the incredible plane speed you don't really have to out-think non-Saipan opponents, you can just react and have success.

[TurboT]

I highly doubt the OP will find any support for his case in this forum which is naturally anti CV anything.

 

I would note though, that I have a love hate relationship with the Saipan.   I like how it reloads its planes quickly and allows you some faster paced CV game play, however, it does have it's challenges.   It was given tier 9 planes to compensate for it's lower squad number, however, those three man squads get annihilated by anything above tier 6, yet the ship often sees tier 9 enemies.  Having tier 9 planes is great if they actually survived like a tier 9 plane, but they do not.  As an example earlier tonight a lone NC shot down my TB squads before they dropped a single torp on two separate attempts.   The second I noob auto dropped just to see if, since they would drop farther back, they survived.  They did not.  Earlier in the week I lost a TB plane to a freaking Nicholas as I flew over it, then another in the same travel path to an Omaha.  I was down two tier 9 planes to bloody tier 5 ships I happened to pass over.   This kind of thing is infuriating since you lose a significant amount of your strike power by dropping planes in a three man squad.   I don't believe I should own tier 10s, but I don't think I should be losing planes to tier 5s unless i flew over them for 10 minutes. CV matchmaking is borked anyways.  I get needing to have them equal per team but there is no way an Independence should be facing NC and NO's, and really, Rangers and Saipans and Hiryu should not be facing Baltimore's and Iowa's, yet there we are, more often than not, beating our heads against the wall fighting enemies we can't get our planes close to.  A Myoko our Pensi can set an Iowa on fire and have some success, a tier 7 CV can't get near it.  It's a problem in this game that not a lot of people talk about.

 

My other annoyance is the torp spread on this ship.   I have three plane squads, I'm fairly certain the pilots are capable of dropping torps similarly to and 6 man USN squad.  Why the gigantic spread?  What is this for other than to make hitting DDs virtually impossible, and for New Yorks to turn through the spread of torps?  It's a slap in the face to those who play CV in this game to see that ridiculous torp spread.  Perhaps it was necessary when the ship initially had the extra TB squad, but now it's just laughably working against you as some sort of backhanded slap in the face from Wargaming. "Thank you for your money, now we laugh at you as you watch ships drive through this dumb wide torp spread".

 

The credit payout is my third 'this is stupid' moment with the ship.  I just had a game where I did 28K damage in the Atago (crap game), lost, and received more credits than I did when I did 118K damage in the Saipan.  Give me a break!  I spent $52 on this ship, release the credits a little WG!

 

With my negative rant done, there are things I do like about the Saipan, but I do feel the above items could use some 'tweaking.'  ... remember, this ship initially had three TB squads to match it's two fighters.  They were removed I believe to make it so it couldn't snipe other CVs in one run, but removing it has caused some other play ability issues I think were overlooked in their haste to get it to market. (After it's initial plan was changed).

 

[TenguBlade]

Personally I'm finding Saipan to be easy-mode compared to the T4-8 CVs in the USN tech tree. I suspected that would be the case; with the incredible plane speed you don't really have to out-think non-Saipan opponents, you can just react and have success.

Well, Saipan does rely on microing planes to be successful, and certainly to a greater extent than USN CVs.  By the looks of how well-performing players use her, I'd go as far to say that she relies on microing as much as IJN CVs as well (with the fewer number of squads offsetting the decreased reliance on microing that Hiryu's fighters have).  The TBs aren't any different (in terms of usage, i.e. anvil-and-hammer) from those of an IJN carrier, but the fighters have to use strafe to get anything besides panicking an enemy squadron done.  DBs have always been RNG, so there's really no microing to be done with them even for IJN CVs (yes, lining up the drop zone, but you could get a perfect drop parallel to the ship and still miss even with the IJN manual, I've had that happen and happen quite a bit).

[saagri]

I don't think the Saipan needs a buff. Having two fighters and two torpedo bombers is a good mix of anti plane and anti ship. While I would lose the skies to a fighter loadout enemy I can just simply run and out maneuver their planes. The spread of the torpedo bombers is a bit wide but having all 6 hit would mean you could take out a ship in one go which is something I don't think should be in the game. 

 

The fighter loadout on the other hand is amazing. 3 squads allows you own the skies even against other fighter load out CV's (except another Saipan) and the super diver bomber squad is hilarious to use. It deals so much damage to battleships, almost always hits a DD with at least one bomb, and can take out an IJN fighter squad by itself. This load out is basically easy mode and I average the same damage as ranger's with it. 

 

I have noticed that the planes seem squishy for t9 planes however. Passing near ships without defensive fire activated, I lose 1 or two planes with alarming consistency.  Strafing has been hit or miss as well. I mainly only use it on IJN planes as I can wipe out whole squads. Other USN squads might lose 2-3 and engage my fighters and win because saipan fighter ammo sucks. 

[HBZK100]

The Saipan is fine.  Just like others said, it's for the very expereinced CV players, not the newer CV players.

 

It's actually quite easy to NOT get creamed in fighters, just make sure your strafe is going to kill all the fighters.

[hiroshi_tea]

Honestly, the saipan is just a glorified USN version of a hosho. The fighters pound for pound will lose vs other fighters and you have 2 tbs. But you have speed on your side - just like the hosho vs Langley matchup. Play the map, use strafe generously, and run at the first sign of trouble. If you can do well in a hosho then the saipan should be just as easy.

[mouth1313]

Here is a question that will hopefully give you some insight into WGs thinking here.

 

Has your experience with the Saipan made you decide to no longer spend money on WoWs?

 

If yes: well they already got a huge chunk of your money.

 

If no: Why should they care?

[Frenotx]

The only change I'd like to see for the Saipan would be to make the initial spread on its manually dropped torpedoes a little narrower. The torpedoes are usable in their current state, but it being a little easier to get that 3rd torpedo to hit would be much appreciated.

[SneakHayabusa]

Have to agree, Frenotx. The only thing that wide spread would be good for hitting is the list of Bill Clinton's affairs. Little narrower should've been common sense to them plus, super squishy for T9 planes.

[Frenotx]

Have to agree, Frenotx. The only thing that wide spread would be good for hitting is the list of Bill Clinton's affairs. Little narrower should've been common sense to them plus, super squishy for T9 planes.

 

 If they'd have just given the USN Saipan the same torpedo spread that all the other USN ships have, it'd be great.

[bad_arcade_kitty]

The only change I'd like to see for the Saipan would be to make the initial spread on its manually dropped torpedoes a little narrower. The torpedoes are usable in their current state, but it being a little easier to get that 3rd torpedo to hit would be much appreciated.

 

no, thank you, it's cancerous as is, far surpassing ranger by winrate and barely being worse than hiryu despite all those unexperienced captains who drive her

[SneakHayabusa]

 

no, thank you, it's cancerous as is, far surpassing ranger by winrate and barely being worse than hiryu despite all those unexperienced captains who drive her

 

Personally, win rate is a pointless stat. It's too dependent on teamwork where gameplay lacks that I can't count it as a valid stat. AS loadout on Saipan is good. Not so much for Strike.

[Special_Kay]

Personally, win rate is a pointless stat. It's too dependent on teamwork where gameplay lacks that I can't count it as a valid stat. AS loadout on Saipan is good. Not so much for Strike.

 

No, air superiority loadouts are too dependent on teamwork. Strike loadouts are able to carry even if the team is bad.

 

I just don't understand some people's propensity to dismiss winrate out of hand when in many cases that stat shows a clear and consistent difference between different ships. Sure, half a percentage point may not be meaningful, but 4% to 4.5% is certainly meaningful over the course of thousands of games, especially when those values don't fluctuate by more than a percentage point from week to week.

[SneakHayabusa]

 

No, air superiority loadouts are too dependent on teamwork. Strike loadouts are able to carry even if the team is bad.

 

I just don't understand some people's propensity to dismiss winrate out of hand when in many cases that stat shows a clear and consistent difference between different ships. Sure, half a percentage point may not be meaningful, but 4% to 4.5% is certainly meaningful over the course of thousands of games, especially when those values don't fluctuate by more than a percentage point from week to week.

 

Because 4 kills in a strike Saipan can totally carry a gamr where half the team flops in the first 3min out of stupidity shows how an individual's skill is represented by WR. I prefer to look at avg. Dmg/Exp/kills. More players put on a team, less WR means to me personally. And strike is no way horrible, unless you get thrown into a game where you aren't top tier, because then just say goodbye to you TBs before they even get a chance to drop. I just prefer AS atm as I'm 2 skill points from the T5 skill. 

[Special_Kay]

Because 4 kills in a strike Saipan can totally carry a gamr where half the team flops in the first 3min out of stupidity shows how an individual's skill is represented by WR. I prefer to look at avg. Dmg/Exp/kills. More players put on a team, less WR means to me personally. And strike is no way horrible, unless you get thrown into a game where you aren't top tier, because then just say goodbye to you TBs before they even get a chance to drop. I just prefer AS atm as I'm 2 skill points from the T5 skill. 

 

"Because I can't carry hard enough when the team folds in 3 minutes, winrate is a bad stat."

 

Just because you don't have it within your power to have a 100% winrate doesn't make the stat useless, it just means you need a larger sample size before it settles. You can't look at someone with seven matches in a ship and know that their winrate is a reflection of their skill, but you can look at someone with 1000 matches played and know whether they managed to figure out how to contribute to wins. You're right, other stats are valuable, and the best thing to do is to look at all of them when you're judging a player. But as for winrate, sample size is important—the thousands of matches per week that the whole region plays in T7 carriers means that judging those ships' relative ability to influence a match outcome is valid.

 

But remember, as with all player stats, winrate only tells you how they've done (past tense), not whether they've improved recently.

 

Also please note I was speaking more in general about strike loadouts carrying; Saipan's 2/2/0 loadout isn't truly a strike loadout. Her 3/0/1 loadout is certainly a superiority loadout, though.

[Skyfaller]

I would prefer they give the fighters more ammo since if you send a single fighter with full ammo to shoot down a single ranger torpedo or dive bomber squadron the fighter will run out of ammo before it can shoot it down (one plane left alive in the target formation). This is with fully upgraded saipan too btw.

 

I would prefer they made the dive bombers automatically fire at any enemy planes within range.. it just sucks to see them being buzzed by enemy fighters but not getting attacked and them not shooting at the fighters unless they get attacked. Why do they get buzzed? the other carrier player is setting up for a strafe then cancels it when you turn to avoid it..and the fighters end up criss-crossing the bombers nonstop in this dance and the bombers dont shoot at the fighters.

 

I would prefer they made the fighters, when given strafe order along with waypoint orders, to not end the strafe and then stop, fly a circle and then continue on to the designated waypoint (which was directly ahead in the same direction as the strafe was, a 2nd waypoint being set for it to turn). I hate it that they do that because you then are unable to have them do boom and zoom with strafes.