Guarding CV's

[Hex173t]

How to know when is it best to stay back and guard the CV at the start?  I tend to think it's a waste of time to do it but do it on occasion.  But this morning I messaged the team I would cover one CV and the team consensus was that it was a waste of a cruiser, CV didn't need coverage.  I went with the consensus and joined the fight and it turned out the CV's didn't need the coverage as the team said.

 

So... When do you guard the CV and when not?

 

Thanks

[Noshiro_]

Generally, a single cruiser with DF sitting near the CV until it can be seen that the enemy isn't going to snipe it is a good idea. Better to have one cruiser not doing anything for a few minutes than not having a carrier for the rest of the match

[marcmad]

It's generally not worth covering a CV until it is tier 8+

[GenSphinx]

It's generally not worth covering a CV until it is tier 8+

 

T7 it is more then worth it also, the Hiyru has a lot of planes and can do some major damage used properly.  I've easily sniped rangers at the start of the match in my Hiryuu just by getting his fighters tied up with mine and sending my bombers to do their work.

[SPACEDUDE71]

never defend a carrier. if the carrier cant defend himself. what good is he to the fleet.

comes down to the greedy carriers who pick attack for themselves... over air superiority killing bombers and torp planes.

a carrier with no fighters is useless to me. he can scout or defend the team.

[Soshi_Sone]

It often depends on the skill and loadout of the CV captain.  I'll either ask, or watch the launch.  If it's fighter rich, the carrier often doesn't need a close escort.

 

I tend to agree that you generally do NOT want to waste a CA for CV escort.  But you also don't want to get sucker punched.

 

My strategy is to play a CA's picket role in general.  I try to position myself where I can contribute on all levels.  Provide fire support for DDs in the cap, while being able to come to the aid of a BB if targeted by air.  And leaving open the option of running interference on any strike packages headed for the CV.  I often try to cover the direct route, forcing a CV directed strike package to run the perimeter.  Those are often spotted in plenty of time to re-position and engage.

 

 

 

[atPrick__]

usually a pretty good idea when its a 4 CV match, its boring as crapbut some times necessary.

[Ace_04]

I'm thinking the addition of defensive fire to carriers may change the mindset of cruiser-to-CV protection.

[Noshiro_]

never defend a carrier. if the carrier cant defend himself. what good is he to the fleet.

comes down to the greedy carriers who pick attack for themselves... over air superiority killing bombers and torp planes.

a carrier with no fighters is useless to me. he can scout or defend the team.

 

Oh man, you are such a nice team player

[ForgMaxtor]

When I'm playing Cleveland, I usually just straight-up ask the CV if he wants an escort.  Often, they say yes, but not always. If they're running AS or Balanced, or if they've built their CV to have especially good AA, sometimes they don't feel like they need additional AA protection  and they'd rather have me focus on something else like putting airguard over the battleships so they can concentrate on other things.

 

It's also a good way to do something useful in the Cleveland when the MM puts you in a Tier VI-VIII game where you're pretty seriously overmatched in the gunfights.

 

I do agree it's something that should usually be done early-game only to blunt any opening-bell carrier snipe.  Once you've dealt with this, and/or it's clear this isn't happening, you should move up and contribute to the gunfight.

 

Some of my best games in the Cleveland so far have been when I guarded the the CV for the first few minutes, shot down a few planes, and then moved up to support where needed.  Whether you're guarding a CV or not, it's not a bad idea for a team to have a "ready reserve" -- a ship or two that stay disengaged for the first few minutes of a battle, so they can commit where most needed when tactical picture starts to come into focus.

 

There was one game I played recently where I ended up staying near the CV the whole match.  The enemy pushed aggressively, so by 5 minutes in, I was able to position myself about ~3km in front of the CV (who was hiding behind an island out of direct LOF of the enemy ships) *and* put long range fire on approaching enemy DDs and CLs.  That was a good match.

 

Another good reason to stay near the CV:  When enemy ships do spot your CV, they often get severe tunnel vision and lose sight of everything except killing the CV.  From mid- to late-game, you can rack up some easy kills on DDs especially if you stay close enough to your CV to target any enemies who become stricken with "CV Fever."

[BurglarOfBanff_ff]

never defend a carrier. if the carrier cant defend himself. what good is he to the fleet.

comes down to the greedy carriers who pick attack for themselves... over air superiority killing bombers and torp planes.

a carrier with no fighters is useless to me. he can scout or defend the team.

 

So carriers should only attack the airplanes trying to kill you, not the ships trying to kill you.  rip logic.

[Wowzery]

I generally don't, but I'm also usually playing a BB and I normally play aggressive so I'm trying to push forward.

[Mesrith]

Are you a cruiser in a game with carriers?  Is the enemy carrier one that can kill yours with a single pass if left unchecked?  Sure, hang around the carrier for the first few minutes if nobody else is doing it.

 

Is your carrier Air Superiority?  Are you a top-tier cruiser and both carriers are two tiers lower?  Is another ship already baby-sitting the carrier?  Has it been 5 minutes, and the map has shown you that the enemy carrier isn't trying to snipe?  Then please move up and fight, you're not needed there anymore.

[General_Yeo]

 

Oh man, you are such a nice team player

 

Strike buildouts are useless to the team.

 

I am inclined to agree that its better to let such a person sink. A strike carrier won't have unfettered access to the map to bomb away. A single fighter squadron can make a strike carrier useless. Strike carriers are about as useful as ones who don't react to enemy planes by setting their fighters to attack.

 

If I as a BB have more plane kills than a CV - then I really don't care if they sink to the bottom - they were useless to me.

[Noshiro_]

 

Strike buildouts are useless to the team.

 

I am inclined to agree that its better to let such a person sink. A strike carrier won't have unfettered access to the map to bomb away. A single fighter squadron can make a strike carrier useless. Strike carriers are about as useful as ones who don't react to enemy planes by setting their fighters to attack.

 

Strike loadouts remove this shooting you, which will always do more damage to you then a carrier.

[Bril01]

As a CA player I will offer to cover a CV for the first couple of minutes, just to help ensure they are not sniped.  

[killsbane67]

If in my Alantia I'll defend the BB's, I never bother with the CV's.

[General_Yeo]

 

Strike loadouts remove this shooting you, which will always do more damage to you then a carrier.

 

Strike loadouts do nothing of the sort. Do not pretend that actually happens in any match  besides a Strike vs Strike. Strike planes almost certainly get eaten up by a single fighter squadron from anyone running a non-strike build. The map control a non-strike build has is insane against a strike build. Map control is what does more for me than anything else. Map control means enemy DD's can't be throwing fish in the water that I can't see.

[Hex173t]

Thanks all

 

Some pretty good tips here.  

[Noshiro_]

 

Strike loadouts do nothing of the sort. Do not pretend that actually happens in any match  besides a Strike vs Strike. Strike planes almost certainly get eaten up by a single fighter squadron from anyone running a non-strike build. The map control a non-strike build has is insane against a strike build. Map control is what does more for me than anything else. Map control means enemy DD's can't be throwing fish in the water that I can't see.

 

Do you literally think that the entire point of a CV is to keep your cute little battleship alive? A well played strike loadout can dominate a non-strike loadout.

[General_Yeo]

 

Do you literally think that the entire point of a CV is to keep your cute little battleship alive? A well played strike loadout can dominate a non-strike loadout.

 

That's a load of crap at high level play and everyone knows it. The point of a CV is to have map control. Strike CV's DO NOT have map control against non-strike CVs. They're useless to the team. Anyone who defends them doesn't really get the high tier play if they think so.

 

[content moderated - using red color]
- Yshoneist

[mouth1313]

If the majority of the players weren't bad, AS might be viable outside of team battles. As it stands I assume from the start that I will get no help from my team. With the current slightly OPness of AA (The captain skills will make any US CA T6+ a no fly zone) I find targeting DDs to be the most effective way to help my team. You pick off lone battleships when you can, but you are at the mercy of almost every USN cruiser. It's not even about DF either. With BFT+AFT+Manual AA targeting, you are basically a passive shield against carriers that no amount of skill can get past. Obviously if the cruisers are bad at positioning, you can deal with it, but a good player is all but impossible to deal with. That's the trick with CVs. Simply with positioning and a few USN CAs, a CV can do nothing to a fleet. It is quite possible through teamwork (try to play CV in team battles when the enemy has 4 Clevelands with the captain skills) to be immune to attack from planes.

[Noshiro_]

 

That's a load of crap at high level play and everyone knows it. The point of a CV is to have map control. Strike CV's DO NOT have map control against non-strike CVs. They're useless to the team. Anyone who defends them doesn't really get the high tier play if they think so.

Ah yes, that's obviously why IJN CVs are doing so terribly badly against USN CVs that do run AS

[Destroyer_HamakazeKai]

 

That's a load of crap at high level play and everyone knows it. The point of a CV is to have map control. Strike CV's DO NOT have map control against non-strike CVs. They're useless to the team. Anyone who defends them doesn't really get the high tier play if they think so.

 

[Madwolf05]

Yea... fighters aren't the way to go right now.