LittleWhiteMouse

How to Control your Win Rate

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This is great.  Halsey, what video was this?  

Which iChases do you think are the most useful?


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This is great.  Halsey, what video was this?  

Which iChases do you think are the most useful?

 

Linky:

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/109850-ichases-video-on-why-stats-matter/page__p__2686691#entry2686691

 

Well, right now I'm grinding out the Farragut into the Mahan and I followed his tips on how to play the Farragut. You will have to look at his reviews one ship at a time and see if it's worth it. But right now his review of the Farragut is spot on. LHM and Lert's reviews on premiums are also pretty good.

 

My own tips:

 

1. The minimap is one of your tools for situational awareness. Hit the "+" key 1-2 times so you can see what is happening around you while in the scope and hitting the rmb button while using the scope. Dammed useful if your zooming around islands in a dd.

 

2. Get the replay feature. It helps to see what went wrong and just as important, what went right.

 

3. Get into the habit of doing what is called an after action review to see what needs improvement.

Edited by Bill_Halsey

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Stumbled upon this while browsing the World of Tanks forum. Now I know that ships don't behave in the same way as tanks, but a ton of stuff mentioned can still apply to here, especially the material on the mental game (awareness, analysis, decision making, etc).

 

I think this is good additional reading if you want more material.

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/337049-sask-outriders-guides-and-thoughts/ 

Edited by Giantsgiants

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Excellent article Mouse, thank you!

The one very important point I noticed, staying with one ship until you master it.

I play several, but agree with this. I do take out one boat far more than others, the Cleveland, but the point is made and I wish more would heed this advice.  I run that ship so much that all other ship arc firing solutions are that much harder to play.  So, I do play one far more than others, but want to have some fun in my other boats, too.  I also been playing a very long time but was away from WoW for a couple months and I'm so clueless about some of the newer ships it's like I'm a noob again. Knowing the opponent ship is also huge in this game. Knowing the characteristics, strengths, weaknesses and tools of other ships is crucial IMO and that is best learned by playing them.  OTOH, I realize we can't play them all and mastering one ship is great advice.

I was a CBT, so that factors in, trying out all the ships as they came along.  Also, playing over 14k games on WoT helps, but just like that game, you are subject to the matches and people you are matched with, and just like that game, there will always be idiots to screw things up.  

It is a shame we live in such hurried times and people have weak attention spans.  Everyone and their brother has ADHD or ADD and/or they TL;dr because they're lazy, not wanting to READ or even WATCH YouTube to learn more.  I don't understand why you want to play a game with blinders on.  I'm only a fair player for different reasons, but always try like hell to learn the game and help the team win.

Thanks for the fine work!


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This CARRY theory is Bunk. Out pf 294 battles I have 282 victories. How By working with the other players and doing one of three simple things 1: If there is a carrier, protect it, If you have a smoke screen, use to  cover your team mates as well as your self, and if you are in a Battle ship, play smart and stand off and hit from mid to long range for your guns as getting closer will get you killed FAST! with very few positive results


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This CARRY theory is Bunk. Out pf 294 battles I have 282 victories. How By working with the other players and doing one of three simple things 1: If there is a carrier, protect it, If you have a smoke screen, use to  cover your team mates as well as your self, and if you are in a Battle ship, play smart and stand off and hit from mid to long range for your guns as getting closer will get you killed FAST! with very few positive results

 

That's a 96% win rate? That is not that great for coop.

 


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This CARRY theory is Bunk. Out pf 294 battles I have 282 victories. How By working with the other players and doing one of three simple things 1: If there is a carrier, protect it, If you have a smoke screen, use to  cover your team mates as well as your self, and if you are in a Battle ship, play smart and stand off and hit from mid to long range for your guns as getting closer will get you killed FAST! with very few positive results

 

Yes, in co-op. Where bots are excessively easy to deal with. Random battles is another thing entirely. The who battleship at long range thing: That's not how you play battleships.

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Yes, in co-op. Where bots are excessively easy to deal with. Random battles is another thing entirely. The who battleship at long range thing: That's not how you play battleships.

 

The "sniping from the back" people often end up at the bottom of the team ranking. And then they post here to complain about not making credits ;)

 


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Take breaks often.

 

This.  This is what I forget to do.

So easy to get into marathon mode and skip out on meals.

Thanks for the writeup, LWM.  Helps to be reminded of things I 'know' already.


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someday my ADHD will let me get past the bubbly red head.

 

That's not your ADHD, it's your hormones.

 

I vote to sticky this thread!


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I'm a little skeptical about the characterization of a Random battle as, essentially, a demolition derby, with every man for himself.  Even if there is no "team" in the sense of coordination, there is something I can do to be cooperative.

  • (as mentioned) Defend the flag where appropriate
  • Don't rush into the fray immediately; take your time to learn the situation.
  • Perform your role, e.g. as a cruiser driver, keep the DDs off your BBs.
  • When there's a central slot, cover the slot. Stand back and blow up whatever tries to come through.
  • DDs and light CR, scout.  Find how the enemy is deployed.  Stay undetected and unengaged as long as you can.
  • Throw your weight where it can be most effective: As Capt. Hughes demonstrates in Fleet Tactics, locating the point of decision (through scouting) and concentrating all your firepower there will have a disproportionately winning effect.  While this may not translate directly in WoWs, the principle is sound.
  • Communicate.  You can't say much in chat; make it concise and on point.  "N group, come back. You're getting out of range" for a group that is chasing a single ship toward the corner.

 

Oh, I suppose there's plenty more, but I hear a bagel calling me. 

 

 

Added:

  • Keep the booze to a minimum
Edited by iDuckman

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There are simply some ships that do dramatically better than others - even in the same tier and category. Bismark VS North Carolina comes directly to mind. Fiji VS Pensacola. Arizona VS New Mexico. Edinburgh VS New Orleans. Hells, right now Russian cruisers are taking things by storm simply by virtue of asinine amounts of HE spam.

Hells, right now? The game meta is pretty bloody biased, if we are able to be honest here. DDs are at the top o the heap, CA/CLs next, CVs third, and BBs are at the bottom, with the very rare exception. Hell, my stats have skyrocketed since Ive been grinding, and having FUN, in the Bismark, with only the occasional detour in Fiji for Ranked - and many a DD driver are whining that the Bismark is OP (That's a whole other story but is related to this issue). While its true one can 'get good at' a specific ship, that ship generally can be good, bad or ugly depending on the game's current overall meta. I agree that focusing down one ship, getting to know her well, tuning and trimming her well all make a marked difference yes, and I agree that frequent breaks do help - but to try to downplay MM and RNG's effect on any/every game is a tad disingenuous.   My stats up till last week have been crap - why? Because I was focusing on the two worst lines in WG right now, American cruisers past Cleveland and American BBs across the board.  Soon as I got the Bismark - and kitted her out - 0 damage games are almost nill, and anything below 70k damage is below normal for me, and of those its usually because I got nuked/burned to the waterline.


Overall? What ship you select has just as much effect, OR MORE,  on WR and DMG as your skill, or lack thereof. As everyone that has played Ranked can testify, Belfasts are either cleaning house or being derped about in.  Further, as the game's meta is right now there's vastly more emphasis on capping, rather than damage/kills. This means slow BBs and cruisers? You are more a hindrance than help in that regard.

 

Not trying to crap on your parade here Mouse but the other side of the coin needed to be shown here. One can affect WR, but one has far more control over damage output. Problem is, and ive seen this as others have, focusing on damage output generally tends to shaft your team - and in a game where teamplay is outright necessary, it comes back to what MM hands you. If you are in your Pensacola and MM hands you 6 donkeys, two statpadders and the rest average players, whereas the other team has three or four divisions on it, Ill lay cold hard cash that yer about to have a bad run.  Doubly if youre bottom tier.


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While this is a great post, it has 1 fundamental flaw as far as I am concerned : 

The notion that you can succeed in this game without teamwork.

 

Actually, IMHO, the greatest asset one can develop in this game is how to work with others.  Unlike the other fast past game of this genre, World of Warships has a low skill floor : meaning that even a bad player can make significant contribution if supported well.  The skill set is less important in this game than your overall (team) strategy.

 

So more important than knowing mechanics is to know your role and the role of others.  Namely :

1- Instantly spot good players that you can work with.  (Those who don't yolo or go on solo mission; those who communicate [properly] on chat)

2- Adapt your role to the team your with (scouting, assisting or zone control).  This requires to know your ships as well as know the other ships.

3- Learn to communicate effectively with potential (worthy) teammate

 

The thing in this game is that even the best player will go down if FFed by 2-3 players.  There is no scenario where your skills alone will be sufficient to (consistantly) get you out of a 3+ encounter, unless you have help.

 

Once you get that down, then you can further improve your impact on the game by working on your fighting skillz...


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While this is a great post, it has 1 fundamental flaw as far as I am concerned : 

The notion that you can succeed in this game without teamwork.

 

Actually, IMHO, the greatest asset one can develop in this game is how to work with others.  Unlike the other fast past game of this genre, World of Warships has a low skill floor : meaning that even a bad player can make significant contribution if supported well.  The skill set is less important in this game than your overall (team) strategy.

 

So more important than knowing mechanics is to know your role and the role of others.  Namely :

1- Instantly spot good players that you can work with.  (Those who don't yolo or go on solo mission; those who communicate [properly] on chat)

2- Adapt your role to the team your with (scouting, assisting or zone control).  This requires to know your ships as well as know the other ships.

3- Learn to communicate effectively with potential (worthy) teammate

 

The thing in this game is that even the best player will go down if FFed by 2-3 players.  There is no scenario where your skills alone will be sufficient to (consistantly) get you out of a 3+ encounter, unless you have help.

 

Once you get that down, then you can further improve your impact on the game by working on your fighting skillz...

 

In theory, I would agree with you.  But if winning is important to you, do you really want to gamble that each and every game you're going to get players that understand the fundamentals of teamwork?  How often do you have those games where everything gels beautifully and you're all working in synch with one another?  I wish it was more often -- I really do.  Sadly, I've discovered that coordinated team play is somewhat of a rarity in Random Battles, no matter how much effort I put in towards trying to achieve it.  In fact, it's so rare that I made a couple of threads about after-action reports of games where it did occur.

 

To this end, short of playing in divisions, you're not going to see team work like that often enough to make it a benchmark for improving your win rate, which is the sole point of discussion of this thread.  A player that relies on team work to improve their win rate will only see marginal gains on their bottom line compared to a player that knows and understands how to win a match in the framework of any team composition they may have.  Knowing how to operate selfishly -- to work with whatever scant resources you may have will see your win rate increase.  Relying on team mates will, sadly, hold you back.  This isn't because team work is a bad thing or that it's not incredibly powerful.  It's because it's rare.


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Teamwork in randoms is often reduced to seeing what your team is doing and then doing something of your own accord to help shore up a weak spot.

 

For example, you queue up for a game in Molotov. Two brothers comes up as the map. The first thing you notice is that the game mode is standard battle. The second is that most of your team including all of the heavy units are going in one direction. You could go with them, you certainly have the speed and range to engage and sink enemy ships from behind or abreast of the BB's, something you ship is very comfortable doing and very a safe way to play.

 

Or you could use your guns and speed to engage the strong push coming from the week side of the map. You will take fire and be more focused for sure but you have the speed and range to make it difficult on them and hopefully slow them down. That's all that may need to be done, you may not need to do massive damage and sink 4 ships. Just slow the enemy down long enough for your teams death ball to get on cap.

 

Making that kind of decision is often as close to team work you get in randoms, it's not so much about talking to each other or coordinating as it is using what your team gives you to win. 


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I see quite a bit few negative comments on the last page or two here. Players that refuse to admit they have control. So, I will post a success story for LWM. If this was a television advertisement, I would be telling you right now, that I am a real user and not a paid actor.

 

This is my win rate chart for the last year 14 months. The yellow mark is right when Mouse published this post.

7XKMz3Y.jpg

 

I spent nearly 1200 battles at 48%. Most of my gains from before this were incidental. I learned how to do damage. That was it. That was about the time that I learned about aiming, ammo selection and how to avoid damage.

 

I read Mouses article, and had the same response. I felt at the time that that I was an above average player, and the teams were letting me down. I had a hard time accepting what she had to say at the time, if I would not have had to learn all of these lessons the hard way, I would have improved much faster. But... Be that as it may. Every one of those lessons I had to learn the hard way, then look at myself and say, "Huh... I guess Mouse was right."


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i just recently started using LWM's method and until this event slapped us around showed almost an immediate improvement. I intend to go back to working this as soon as possible to make myself not so terribad


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i just recently started using LWM's method and until this event slapped us around showed almost an immediate improvement. I intend to go back to working this as soon as possible to make myself not so terribad

 

It works! Good luck with your adventures in learning the game. It is really rewarding.

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In theory, I would agree with you.  But if winning is important to you, do you really want to gamble that each and every game you're going to get players that understand the fundamentals of teamwork?  How often do you have those games where everything gels beautifully and you're all working in synch with one another?  I wish it was more often -- I really do.  Sadly, I've discovered that coordinated team play is somewhat of a rarity in Random Battles, no matter how much effort I put in towards trying to achieve it.  In fact, it's so rare that I made a couple of threads about after-action reports of games where it did occur.

 

To this end, short of playing in divisions, you're not going to see team work like that often enough to make it a benchmark for improving your win rate, which is the sole point of discussion of this thread.  A player that relies on team work to improve their win rate will only see marginal gains on their bottom line compared to a player that knows and understands how to win a match in the framework of any team composition they may have.  Knowing how to operate selfishly -- to work with whatever scant resources you may have will see your win rate increase.  Relying on team mates will, sadly, hold you back.  This isn't because team work is a bad thing or that it's not incredibly powerful.  It's because it's rare.

 

dear LWM.

been struggling since I started playing this game. am utterly frustrated, and my results are not even close to what I have experienced in every other game played. when I read the original post, found myself responding negatively, what would be the point in designing a team-play based game in which the best way to improve your win rate was to NOT count on the team?

 

I am old, stubborn and experienced enough to know how I want and like to play, and most of the time it does not work well in this game. being way too aggressive, trying to figure out what the team needs most, and trying to be in the right place at the right time for the team with little or no consideration for my ship health or situation results in deletion from the battle in short order, and it turn negatively effects damage done, and enemy ships killed, which is not a good thing no matter how you're playing. for the friendlies anyway.

 

completely agree that objective observation, particularly game films, is the fastest and best way to improve. also the most painful. add to the mix this: I have a tendency to pitch empirical observation, critical thinking, and objective self evaluation right out the window when I see a couple team-mates heading to the back of the map as soon as the battle starts, or 3 or 4 (or more) friendlies colliding while all hiding behind a small island. or there are 4 TKers on my team, and they are bickering and fighting with the rest of the team about the friendly morons that sailed right into their torps. or I am being shot at by the closest friendly, who ended up getting distracted by another friendly and sinking them.

 

 

and I completely understand what you are saying, and just flat out loath saying you are probably right. even though this evening, I tried out the French cruisers. that was not much fun. so I switched to the yugumo, for a win, decent damage, couple kills, but.... felt less than honorable skulking around out of range and stealth torping. switched to the yorck (yes, I read what you said about specializing, and agree) and had a pile of awful battles. here's the summary of tonites battles:

 

 

8 of 10 battles were defeats. in 7 of those defeats, I was in the top 2 for the team, this accomplished with under-average damage, a bit over average sinkings and survivals. 7 of the 8 losses were blowout losses, with the 'closest' 600+ points difference. in 5 of the losses we sank no more than 3 enemy ships, in 1 we sank none.

 

repeating to myself, "it's not the team, it's not matchmaking, it's not RNG, it's not an unholy combination of those things, it's me," and this does not jibe (nautical term) as anywhere close to objective considering the nature of those defeats. watched a few replays, made some mistakes, for sure, but do not feel those battles were anything close to winnable, and that was obvious early on. have posted a couple times about the high number of complete slaughters I have been in lately, and was savaged by the usual trollers (some of whom even explained it wasn't trolling). tonite, 70% of the battles were flat out ugly early, and getting worse, with most of the team horribly out of position, squabbling, TK stuff, and nobody is hitting anything. I'm not making this crapup, and I sure as [edited]wish it were not happening. I don't believe it's a conspiracy, nor a switch WG toggles for older players, or anything of that nature, so don't play the tin foil hat card.

 

my struggle is exactly this; I often times do not enjoy the style of gameplay apparently required to win and excel in this game. I like winning. I like close, tough battles. I hate losing. I sometimes lack for patience. I use earnest evans as my example (how long do you think he would last in this game? can you imagine a DD attacking an entire fleet the way the game is now?)... and throughout history my favorite naval heros were quite aggressive.

 

suggestions? (ed. note: besides uninstalling, getting a tin hat, or the eating popcorn crap)

 

Edited by not_acceptable

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<All very carefully read, just edited out for this reply!>

suggestions? (ed. note: besides uninstalling, getting a tin hat, or the eating popcorn crap)

 

 

One of the things I've always struggled with personally is believing myself to be more competent than I actually am.  If there's anything PVP games have taught me it's that I'm nowhere near as good as I would like to be.  A lot of the frustration I experience in video games occurs when I can't do what I think I should be capable of doing.  A line of thinking like, "I should be able to one-shot that low-health cruiser that's 10km away with this next broadside from HMS Hood," is just setting myself up for comedic disaster.  This only becomes all the more infuriating when the failures compound or cascade into a loss.

 

From what you've described, survival is the biggest hurdle for you at the moment (I may be mistaken -- I'm not pulling up your stats and am just taking your description at your word).  Your heart is in the right place and you're taking the right actions to help your team win, but when you're sunk, this influence stops.  You're in a difficult place where you now have to compromise between doing the right thing to win a match versus padding your chances of surviving an encounter so that you can continue to influence the game.  To be clear:  there's nothing wrong with being sunk in achieving an objective that clinches the match.  But like you've described, how well can you really trust team mates to win that are humping one another on grid J10?

 

This may mean that instead of taking the high-risk, high reward actions like you have been doing, that you scale back on doing the riskiest / most influential thing and instead look for something that still hampers the enemy but keeps you hale and healthy.

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse

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my struggle is exactly this; I often times do not enjoy the style of gameplay apparently required to win and excel in this game. I like winning. I like close, tough battles. I hate losing. I sometimes lack for patience. I use earnest evans as my example (how long do you think he would last in this game? can you imagine a DD attacking an entire fleet the way the game is now?)... and throughout history my favorite naval heros were quite aggressive.

 

Evans realized the odds of coming out alive was slim, but he went in anyway. I looked at your stats and you seems to be a Bismark guy. I call T8-T10 BB play, "WOT Naval edition" . Because you will have to stay bow on most of the time and be a torp magnet because of it. I am an aggressive person also and I ended dying a lot in the beginning. What I recommend is this: Attempt to stay alive for the first 10 minutes and then see if it's worth being aggressive at that point. For some folks, having 100k damage in the first 8 minutes then dying is fine. But you don't influence the game after that. There is nothing wrong with being aggressive. It's better than the acts of skittishness that some players show. If you're a dd player, being blown up early is part of the risk. Otherwise, why play dd's. Oh, and you might consider joining a clan. It should help and you can learn from some players experience.

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