Open Letter to Cruiser Captains from CV Captains

[Lufbery17]

Dear Cruiser Captains,

 

We know you love shooting down planes. We also know that we carrier captains love killing each other out of the gate. So please, help your team out and lend support to your carriers by being an escort. Just stick around until it's clear the enemy CV isn't going to try and snipe your CV out of the gate and then move on to the front.

 

Sincerely, Your friendly CV Captains

[Seaman_Rookie]

You might want to mention what tiers you're thinking about, and perhaps remind the cv captains to mention something in chat before the game.  After all, are you really going to get sniped by a langley, or be protected from air attack by a st. louis?

[DelroyMonjo]

Dear CV Captains,

 

Some of us Cruiser Captains feel it's necessary to support the DD's so they don't interfere with the BB Captains who seem to want to cluster around CV's. 

[INoCU]

Once shooting down planes is worth it. 

 

But anyways I think the player logic is if friendly is running AS, they can protect themselves. If friendly is running strike, then there's no air cover so what's the difference between no air cover and no carrier? Coupled with the fact that planes are worthless there's no real incentive for solo players to escort. 

[AVR_Project]

Answer:  Division up with your own escort.

Answer:  Don't hug the edge of the map so much.  Get closer to the front and hide like a DD.

Answer:  Use diversionary tactics when your strike planes are returning.  Send them in the direction of an empty corner and watch half the red team sucker up and fall for it.  You just divided their team and guaranteed their failure without scoring any damage.

 

[Harkonen_siegetank]

Dear CV captains, dont stay in one spot, pay attention to your map more.

[poeticmotion]

An open letter to the OP from a cruiser captain:

 

Cruisers have a lot of demands on them. Supporting their DDs by focus firing enemy DDs or cruisers the DDs spot. Supporting BBs by escorting them and killing bombers/DDs threatening them. Doing damage themselves. It's a complete waste for a cruiser to just hang at the back of the map with a CV in case they get sniped; CV drivers need to learn to move up a bit in support range of the fleet while still staying hidden enough to not get hit. It is possible. 

 

I don't mind, in a cruiser, flexing back to assist a CV if he tells me there's incoming planes or DDs or I see them, or positioning my ship to intercept a strike wave inbound to our CV, but cruisers are not your [edited]. You're asking cruiser drivers to nerf their own ability to gain XP and credits to shoot down planes *and* making your team fight on front lines minus one ship. If you want an escort, division up and find one or learn to position your CV where fleet support is available *without* holding a ship back as escort.

[CG59]

Shooting down planes is becoming increasingly XP relevant. Plus I heard that winning the battle gives you ~50% more XP. Even if it is just for the first 3-5 minutes of a battle, Defensive Fire really helps slaughter incoming attacks. Especially USN CAs. Help your team win. Also, if you are supportive of your CVs, it is likely that they could help out against BBs or other CAs.

[awiggin]

Dear Cruiser Captains,

 

We know you love shooting down planes. We also know that we carrier captains love killing each other out of the gate. So please, help your team out and lend support to your carriers by being an escort. Just stick around until it's clear the enemy CV isn't going to try and snipe your CV out of the gate and then move on to the front.

 

Sincerely, Your friendly CV Captains

 

Great in theory, realistically not going to happen often. Game does not reward team work,, because too many players would find ways to exploit it for easy points....

Game won't reward that cruiser for staying back. Unless ships get by your team, he won't score for crap....

 

[slags83]

Dear carrier drivers,

 

My job as a cruiser driver is not to wipe your butt for you. If you're so terrified of being "sniped" try using a fighter load out. I'm more valuable to the team screening BBs and supporting DDs on the front lines than baby sitting you.

 

Sincerely,

A Concerned Cruiser Captain

[Selek_7101]

But anyways I think the player logic is if friendly is running AS, they can protect themselves. If friendly is running strike, then there's no air cover so what's the difference between no air cover and no carrier? Coupled with the fact that planes are worthless there's no real incentive for solo players to escort. 

 

Speaking as a CV driver who dabbles occasionally in the other classes, I personally believe that someone taking the strike package has written on the skies in letters five hundred feet tall that he has no intention of contributing to fleet defense in any meaningful fashion, and is therefore unworthy of my support.  

 

He (or she) has very clearly stated that he is putting his ability to farm credits and damage above the safety and welfare of the team as a whole.

 

In the Navy, such a person is described as a "check valve", meaning things only flow in one direction.  He expects and demands my support and protection, but is unable or unwilling to reciprocate.  

 

At that point, he's not a part of the team, and has nothing to offer except competition for the already limited number of available kills.  Worse, he has opened an exploit for the enemy team which he himself cannot or will not counter.

 

As others have already noted, I now have little or no incentive to aid or protect him.  That he has chosen the ability to strike across the map at the cost of being unable to defend himself in close quarters is his own choice, not an obligation on the rest of us.

 

We are no more bound to rescue him from the consequences of his choices than we are to rescue the YOLO idiot who went off by himself and stumbled into the heart of the enemy horde.  

 

Conversely, a CV driver who IS willing and able to contribute to fleet defense, who has traded some of his offensive power for the ability to protect the rest of us IS worthy of my support- and will get it to the best of my ability to provide it.

[Selek_7101]

Dear carrier drivers,

 

My job as a cruiser driver is not to wipe your butt for you. If you're so terrified of being "sniped" try using a fighter load out. I'm more valuable to the team screening BBs and supporting DDs on the front lines than baby sitting you.

 

Sincerely,

A Concerned Cruiser Captain

 

Dear Cruiser Captain, 

 

   As noted above, by taking the stock or Anti-Air package, I am trading part (or all) of my ability to farm credits and damage for the ability to either slow down or eliminate the enemy's ability to snipe YOU, too.  

 

   No, your job isn't to "wipe my butt" or rescue me from my own stupidity (when I park way in the back and send out for Chinese food), but if I'm doing my best to be proactive and protect other elements of the fleet, it would be nice if you returned the favor every once in a while.

 

 

[GensuiHime]

 

Speaking as a CV driver who dabbles occasionally in the other classes, I personally believe that someone taking the strike package has written on the skies in letters five hundred feet tall that he has no intention of contributing to fleet defense in any meaningful fashion, and is therefore unworthy of my support.  

 

He (or she) has very clearly stated that he is putting his ability to farm credits and damage above the safety and welfare of the team as a whole.

 

In the Navy, such a person is described as a "check valve", meaning things only flow in one direction.  He expects and demands my support and protection, but is unable or unwilling to reciprocate.  

 

At that point, he's not a part of the team, and has nothing to offer except competition for the already limited number of available kills.  Worse, he has opened an exploit for the enemy team which he himself cannot or will not counter.

 

As others have already noted, I now have little or no incentive to aid or protect him.  That he has chosen the ability to strike across the map at the cost of being unable to defend himself in close quarters is his own choice, not an obligation on the rest of us.

 

We are no more bound to rescue him from the consequences of his choices than we are to rescue the YOLO idiot who went off by himself and stumbled into the heart of the enemy horde.  

 

Conversely, a CV driver who IS willing and able to contribute to fleet defense, who has traded some of his offensive power for the ability to protect the rest of us IS worthy of my support- and will get it to the best of my ability to provide it.

 

Clearly you have not played on tiers 8 and above. At high tiers fighters become nearly meaningless and anti-air packages do little to nothing when a dedicated CV player decides to kill ships. You have enough plane squadrons to spread out across the map and hit various targets while your own fighters are engaging the enemy at some other area.

 

This becomes extremely relevant with USN carriers as they move up in the tech tree. For example, on Midway, if you decided to go with the anti-air setup, you get 3 fighters at the cost of nearly all your attack capability. However, the Japanese equivalent Hakuryu has 2 fighter wings even with the attack setup, and is able to operate 6 attack wings, consisting of 3 torpedo bomber and 3 dive bomber wings. Your fighters also have such a low ammo supply that about a minute or less of attacking planes and you have to fly back to resupply. Strafing takes away more than half your ammo, and is considered a risky move. Not only that, planes become extremely versatile and quick that fighters cannot catch up to an attack wing that has already emptied their loadout on a ship. The only viable solution is to strafe, but I already explained the risk in doing so. You also have to be at a near distance to even hit something with strafe, and if you take your time, the bombers will eventually outrun your fighters and exit outside of strafe range.

 

The "More fighters offer more defense" doctrine only works on lower tier carriers as they can afford to keep their fighters up 3 minutes at a time while retaining their capability to shoot down planes. A carrier with the strike loadout can carry the entire game if played right. If you pick the anti air setup, you're basically saying "I'm just the spotter, and I can in no way help the team kill other ships with my own attack planes". And this is assuming your planes are actually spotting instead of chasing enemy planes that run into the cover of enemy AA flak fields. Fighters aren't infinite either - play them wrong and you'll lose all of them in a few minutes. Only the USN CVs have an abundance of fighters, but even that can go away quickly if you bring them on top of cruisers with dedicated AA fire.

 

That being said, if anyone wants cruiser AA, they should stick close to the main fleet where AA is concentrated and maybe ask the cruisers for help instead of expecting mandatory cover. That way your cruisers don't have to travel 20km just to get back to you and provide you AA fire. USN CVs will probably suffer more from following the main fleet to the front lines since they don't have the luxury of lower detection like IJN CVs do. Midway's stock detection range is some 18km if I remember. So stay close to your team, or bring in a friend that has an AA specialized USN cruiser, like the Des Moines. 

[desmo_2]

Dear CV captains, dont stay in one spot, pay attention to your map more.

 

+100.

 

I suck at carriers, but when I do play them I either watch my boat's surroundings on the map or I keep my ship moving...and watch my boat's surroundings on the map.  Is multitasking really so hard that so many CV players can't keep an eye on their ship's surroundings while managing their squadrons?  It really isn't any different than zooming out of binocular view while your guns are reloading to check what is going on around your BB, CA, or DD.

 

When I see a CV driver moving and steering, I usually sigh in relief.  A CV captain who watches his boat seems to be a rare thing, indeed.  Also, the ones that don't watch their boat also don't watch chat.  Warnings of an inbound DD that everyone but the CV driver can see on the map frequently go unheeded.

[Selek_7101]

 

Clearly you have not played on tiers 8 and above.

Actually, I have played a handful of matches at those levels, and I disagree with your contention that the meta is significantly different.

 

As you yourself point out, additional squadrons are matched by additional squadrons (and/or deeper reserves), as well as by organic (onboard) AAA on the higher tier ships (especially cruisers).

 

 

 At high tiers fighters become nearly meaningless and anti-air packages do little to nothing when a dedicated CV player decides to kill ships.  You have enough plane squadrons to spread out across the map and hit various targets while your own fighters are engaging the enemy at some other area.

 

 Which again, is matched by the higher AA ratings of ships at those Tiers. Torpedo planes and dive bombers are every bit as susceptible to enemy AA as are fighters, and because of the higher HP totals on the higher tier ships, dividing your strike force actually means fewer kills per sortie.

 

A carrier with the strike loadout can carry the entire game if played right.

 

  Agreed, but irrelevant.   Any ship can "carry the entire game" if it's well handled and properly utilized.  

 

The problem is that ONLY the carrier can hit the enemy planes BEFORE they get into a position to do damage.

 

An AA cruiser has a limited range at which it can strike enemy fighters.  They have to allow the enemy planes to get close before they can hit them, which increases the risk that the some will get through.

 

A carrier with fighters, by contrast, can knock down the enemy planes long before they get within striking distance. That's why carriers always have been- and always should be- the first line of fleet air defense.  

 

Bringing in a strike-only carrier opens the window to air attacks from the other side (which other ships can only counter at increased risk) along with the admission that you have no intention of contributing meaningfully to the defense against those attacks.

 

That was my point then, and it remains so now.

 

Your other advice- staying close to the main fleet where possible and partnering with ships which can provide AA cover- is sound, but  not germane to the point I was trying to make, nor does it contradict the plea offered by the OP.  

[desmo_2]

Your other advice- staying close to the main fleet where possible and partnering with ships which can provide AA cover- is sound, but  not germane to the point I was trying to make, nor does it contradict the plea offered by the OP.  

 

But the Germane's don't even have CV's. 

 

 

 

[Hero_of_Zero]

CV choose Strike package            - easier to get snipe = We won't protect him because he won't protect us

CV choose Air Superiority package - harder to get snipe = We gonna protect him! 

 

Strike can sunk enemy CV easier thus remove enemy CV from the game. Failing that, sink someone that shooting at you. Isn't that protect the team? It's what everyone doing. Down the red team.

 

From individual stand point you are right, but from team perspective, there's reason to protect CV. I just offering alternative.

 

CV has choice before start the match to protect the team or strike. Cruiser has choice in match to protect the team or strike. Unfortunately, you will not protect CV when he need it the most.

 

I have occasion that I have my bombers drag enemy fighters above friendly cruiser. I wish he would use defensive fire or at least select fighter as target. I know he didn't use DF (I know it has cooldown but was it limit?) but I can't know if he select target

Fine, He's not obligated to protect my fighter. I'm not upset and honestly I'm not expect much anyway.

But after that. If I have fighter to protect him from bomber, will I do it? Yes. Because It's a team game, and I wish someone would do the same to me.

[Capt_Quagmire]

From a CV Captain that has played both. AS CVs really don't need protection. With min 2 fighter squadrons you should be able to deal with an enemy CV regardless.

 

Problem is AS limits your abilities, you get almost no exp for plane kills. (kill 40+ planes, no kills and the strike CV kills 1 ship and a couple planes and gets more exp). Tier 6 and below the 1 bomber squadron does nothing to help the fleet. Even 7 - 10 having 2 bomber squadrons does not do much. The other problem is most matches have 2 CVs per side. If everyone else runs the strike package say at tier 7 and the opposing team gets a jap CV. You get this.

 

2 fighters, 5 DB, 1 TP for a pair of rangers (1 AS and 1 strike).

2 fighters, 5 DB, 3 TP for a strike ranger and strike Hiryu

 

Basically an AS CV becomes useless. You are trying to cover the fleet with pretty much 1 fighter constantly rearming while the other kills planes. That opposing force has 145 plans. It takes a while to kill them all. In the mean time the enemy CVs are racking up kills because you can only stop so much. I've lost a match in an AS Ranger killing 70+ planes and a ship.

 

In one aspect you are correct that the AS version is a self-less version. You are trying to neutralize the enemy CVs and keep the skies clear. Problem is at best you neutralize the enemy CV but you are already neutralized. That stinks and when you are the only CV not in a strike package it really stinks. I will say I was in your shoes at one point but the more I play CVs the more worthless I find the AS package

 

It means for the American CVs you are best off with the standard or strike versions if you want to each experience.

[slags83]

Again, it's pretty arrogant and entitled to expect someone to babysit you knowing they're not getting any credits or XP for doing so while you send your strike package out and point farm.

 

This may be a team game, but it's ultimately every man for themselves. I'm in this for credits and XP, not to facilitate you running up your stats to my detriment. And I'd still argue a cruiser sitting back with a carrier is doing more harm than good when it could be on the front lines.

[10T0nHammer]

I just follow my fleet around. You'll be surprised the kind of support CLs will provide if you are not camping at A1. Hell, I stay about 10km from the front lines (roughly 5km behind main fleet) for multiple reasons. 1) fast turn around times between attacks. 2) CLs can assist you while still being able to hit enemy ships. 3) more AA in the bubble if the enemy CV is dumb enough to attempt a snipe. 4) Its just a better tactic than isolating yourself for so many reasons.

 

[Slick201]

A lot of interesting posts on this topic.

[Wyngs_2015]

I always ask if the CV wants escort when Im in my Atlanta. Most of the time, I dont get an answer, or they say no. Then I find a BB and stick with him (or them) for a bit. If they say yes, I stick with the CV for a bit, but not forever especially if hes camping in the back. I dont mind doing this, as it also helps me to get a feel for where I should be later in the game, as well as helping my CV survive. Same thing for BB's.

[desmo_2]

I just follow my fleet around. You'll be surprised the kind of support CLs will provide if you are not camping at A1. Hell, I stay about 10km from the front lines (roughly 5km behind main fleet) for multiple reasons. 1) fast turn around times between attacks. 2) CLs can assist you while still being able to hit enemy ships. 3) more AA in the bubble if the enemy CV is dumb enough to attempt a snipe. 4) Its just a better tactic than isolating yourself for so many reasons.

 

 

You can CV on my team any time. 

[Noobitz]

If I'm in my 11.1 K range, balloon trajectory, 4.5 K torp but fantastic AA Atlanta in a tier nine game, I will sit back with you and push T + CNTR LMB all game long and gnaw on the bones of any sneaky DDs who try to break through.

 

But if I am in an IJN cruiser with good gun range, flat arcs, 20% fire chance using HE, 10 K torps, and mediocre AA, I will push up a bit and keep one eye looking in your direction.

[Slick201]

had a interesting match just this evening..  A CV and a BB were in a division.  The entire match they camped at the edge of the map together. The CV didn't do squat for the team, and the BB did even less.  A enemy DD and BB (working together) decided that the CV/BB div. would be better kills than my Omaha (that they had been pounding away at for several Km), and targeted them instead.  Now normally I would have stayed to assist a BB or CV.. Though being less than 15km away from me; the "squat" BB never fired a single round to assist me; I left him to deal with enemy DD/BB syndicate by himself. Both he and his CV buddy were sunk, I placed in the upper third of our team, and my repair bill was a lot less than it would've been had I stayed.

 

 

My point;  Don't expect me to CYA when you need it, if you didn't even make a attempt to cover mine when I was in need.  Reciprocity goes a long way.